‘Sangh Parivar is destroying Hindu civilisation’

By U.R. ANANTHA MURTHY

What has happened in Dakshina Kannada is a shame.

The Christians in the past had made contribution to the development of modern Kannada. Rev Kittel who composed the first Kannada dictionary was one of our revered ancestors. The Christians continue to run hospital and schools. Most of the gentle and caring nurses in hospitals are Christians.

What is happening now is a cynical move on the part of the government in power. Our Chief Minister had said that he would make Karnataka another Gujarat. His ideal seems to be Narendra Modi, for B.S. Yediyurappa, once a leader of poor peasants in my home district Shimoga, now speaks of Modi-style development.

The BJP knows that they can’t get the Christian minority votes in Mangalore and Udupi, as they are traditional supporters of the Congress. By attacking Christians now they can make a solid Hindu vote bank. This is most cynical.

Raising the question of ‘forced conversions’ for justifying the attacks on Christians is irresponsible on the part of a government which should protect law and order.

Who converts to Christianity?

Mostly those who come from low castes and feel ashamed to reveal who they are and what caste they belong to. Christianity gives them a respectable identity and they may be tempted also with jobs and money.

If we had a great saint like Narayana Guru of Kerala born into a low caste who took to reforming the decadent Hindu society, there would have been no room for Christians to convert low-born Hindus. Narayana Guru was an advaitin, perhaps the greatest advaitin after Adi Shankaracharya.

Attacking people who are praying to whatever God is the most irreligious act on the part of Hindus.

The Sangh Parivar is destroying Hindu civilization.

The way out now is for civilian society to raise its voice. The police are under the BJP government which seems to have turned a blind eye. It may not be openly supporting the attacks of the Sangh Parivar but there seems to be a tacit understanding between the two.

The Gujarat drama of violence is being reenacted here.

As a Kannada writer I feel ashamed and angry and feel helpless too.

Photograph: courtesy Outlook

Also read: ‘Bajrang Dal doesn’t belong in Mangalore’

‘Is saving souls a good way of saving democracy?’

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184 Responses to “‘Sangh Parivar is destroying Hindu civilisation’”

  1. sarvagnas Says:

    Mr URA,
    What’s u r contribution to uphlod hindu civilization.

  2. Alok Says:

    C’mon Yeddy-man.. you have Deve Gowda to ensure your political success in Karnataka. As long as he and his sons are alive, you will always be assured of a strong vote in your favour from most right thinking people.

    Why do you want to have to do all these cheap tricks and lose the votes of right thinking people?

    Already “Operation Lotus” is causing some of us to waver. Don’t blacken the faces of kannadigas everywhere by unleashing state sponsored violence on a minority.

  3. Truth From Facts Says:

    He admits that his ancestors practiced untouchability towards Dalits. He continues the same untouchability against Hindu nationalists. What more can you expect from this self-promoting Marxist?

    Adi Shankara sang “nahi nahi rakshati dukruN karaNe”…. scholarship won’t help you. Yes, even a Jnanpeeth won’t help!!

  4. Bhagwat Shah Says:

    Please know the facts before attacking Hindus.
    The fight was started by the christian groups who continue to malign Hindu Gods and saints in their drive for conversion.
    read – http://www.haindavakeralam.com/HKPage.aspx?PageID=7099&SKIN=B

    Despite all efforts by the Hindus to remain open to all good thoughts, the christian missionaries continue to provoke a fight. Their view that they are the sole custodians of divine truth has caused wars across the world in the past and continues to do so in present day India.

  5. H. M. Says:

    Hindus have been peaceful, its the xtians who provoked us into this. Their land grab and illegal conversion activities are making the people turn to violence to protect their lands and communities.

  6. L Raj Says:

    Conversion to get rid of caste is a hollow promise.

    Even after conversion, if the dalits remain dalit, what is the point of the conversion ?
    If the christian conversion allows them to leave caste behind, why are they still claiming to be dalit christians ?

    I have it on good authority that the higher caste converts keep the dalits out of their churches and dalits are still treated as untouchables, not by Hindus, but by fellow christians.

  7. sathya Says:

    URA opened his mouth at last. What was he doing when so many blasts took place killing so many innocent people in different parts of the country? It is irrelevant on the part of URA to bring Shankaracharya’s name in this context. Narayanguru did what he could in his limited time. But what these so-caled rationalists and thinkers doing except to give one statement ande live in their own world. Nursing as a profession has its own dimensions.. Even others have taken to it and doing the services without publicity. Whatever has happened in Manalore and other places people will forget and they live together after sometime. As a human being feel ashamed but not as a Kannada writer!

  8. indu ramesh Says:

    Why is it that nobody is talking about christan publications which started all this?

  9. anand Says:

    ura is the scum of the soil

  10. Sandesh Karanth Says:

    You say – “Who converts to Christianity?

    Mostly those who come from low castes and feel ashamed to reveal who they are and what caste they belong to. Christianity gives them a respectable identity and they may be tempted also with jobs and money.”

    What the heck? You say that everybody are same and you classify people into high caste and low caste? I do not see any point in people feeling ashamed to reveal their caste and their identity?

    Even if they do? What does Christianity give them? What is that so called “Respectable Identity” you’re talkin abt? Please enlighten us with that.

    All they give is some milk powder n money. Dont tell me that they give jobs… May be somewhere inside the church.

    And what is this thing about “Great gurus?” If you want one, you’ve got Madhwacharya, the Dwaita proposer. What else you need? I seriously am not getting the point as to why you brought it in here?

    To bring to your notice, christians are not behind in violence. “Eradu kai seridarene chappale”

    I dunno whether Sangh Parivar is destroying Hindu Civilization or not but you are seriously doing that. Please think before you write such things.

  11. Bhasi Says:

    Mr URA,

    how come your Keyboard became active now all of a sudden? you must maintain the dignity of Gnanapeeta atleast. When you cant write sthg on kaveri issue, or for the Cause of kannada, all of a sudden you become active to talk against hindu and BJP.

    Yes christians are running schools and hospitals, but those shd not be the center of relegion spreading or conversion. where were you hidden when Benny hinn Came to bangalore and held a mass programme in Air force space? why cant you write in your blogs or papers on Assasination of Swamy lakshmanananda? How many times have you written about the state of kashmiri pandits? Where were you hidden when so many balsts happened in Bangalore?

    Yes hindus are always peace lovers, but that doesnt mean you can take them for granted and convert poor peopple by luring them for money and other stuffs. It will be good if you read an article in Vijaya karnataka’s 16th Sept edition.

    Recently when i was travelling in an auto, driver told that he was a hindu and converetd to christianity and stopped drinking. So when i asked did any hindu god or hindu swamji and hindu neighbor asked him to start drinking or smoking he kept quite, but smell from his mouth was telling that he has already had his day’s dose. people from low caste are lured by these ppl for oney and they r treated seperately by christians. i read some where that they have different churches.

    As a kannada writer first ask yourself whats your contribution to the language. Its because of people like you kannada is in such shape. In ranaga shankara there will be kannada drama and all announcement will be in english and some great kannada writers like you sitting there will never make any comment or atleast dont have a voice to protest and in interviews you are very happy to talk in english and you are a kannada writer.

    If you are so eager to fight against BJP and hindus contest election , [MP/MLA/corporation] and tray to retain your deposit back and you have a rich experience in fighting rajyasabha election. The then CM Kumara swamy asked “who is anantha murthy”, that itself is a clear indication of your status !

    Its the Media and people like you who are creating false image on Mangalore clashes. If some one writes dirty things about our sacred gods, obviusly people get angry and it shoul dbe retaliated. Lord krishna has said” dharma samsthapanarthaya sambhavami yuge yuge”, some times we need chakradari krishna,. not one with flute.

  12. illama prabhu Says:

    anantamurthy sir,
    i stand by you. going through reactions filed to your write, i was shocked and disturbed too. they are no better than bajrang dal activists.
    conversions have never been a reason for the attack. being a journalist i had to interact with some of the BJP, RSS leaders regarding the attack. i came to know that the attack on church was a well planned, organised act. yeddyurappa himself knew this well in advance.
    party cadres planned in such a way that the attacks should be on the final day of the national executive meeting of the BJP. they did it.
    a senior activist of the sangha parivar told me that party cadres stressed the need for such attacks to keep youths, particularly those with communal bent of mind with the party till the next parliament elections.
    home minister is monitoring the attack sitting in Mangalore. he did not take time to visit churches which became target of bajrang dal.
    being CM, yeddyurappa is speaking more about conversion than putting perpertrators of the crime behind bars.
    i felt sad when you too said, you are helpless.

  13. RowdyRanga Says:

    What will it take to amend the constitution saying there can be no religious convertion. One is Free to practice any religion he wants to..But once born to a Hindu will always be a Hindu… All Xtian Missonary operating in India should have their books open. They must be audited to see where the funds are being utilised and for what purpose. I bet the money that comes from vatican city goes into converstion.

    Also me being a Hindu its hight time we talk about uniting the religion. No one should talk about the caste system. No mention of it any of the forms.

  14. jack Says:

    I have seen how dalits converted to Christianity are treated. I am a Hindu and a Brahmin but studied in Christian school run by Methodist mission. I have seen my teachers who were dalits converted to Christianity being treated by Catholic teachers of other school. And these are the people who preach us equality. Better keep your house in order. And as far as URA is concerned, just shut up. We had had enough of you.

  15. subbulakshmi Says:

    shut up truth from fact. you dont know what you are saying. what URA is saying is simple truth. anyday i would vote for him. he is NOT supporting BAD christians. even those who wrote that piece in New Life are as bad as the Bajragdal. Both must be condemned. any sanatani is a danger to the soceity.

  16. Hinfinity Says:

    Yeddy is probably well aware of the fact that half of Karnataka’s children are malnourished (Ref: http://www.merinews.com/catFull.jsp?articleID=140942)

    His and the BJP’s approach to tackle such weighty problems is to feed them a diet of neo-nazi ideals so that they grow up to be super aggressive, vacuous, irrational and violent citizens ready to carry forth the BJP/ Sangh Parivar legacy.

    With KaRaVe and BJP emerging as its protectors, Karnataka indeed has a bright intolerant future- one powered by the glow of burning churches and buildings.

  17. Tarlemaga Says:

    URA,

    The excuse of stating that Hindus have been getting converted to Christianity to avoid caste oppression is unwarranted.

    I come from an Intercaste Hindu Family. My father is from an Upper caste and mother is from a lower caste.

    I need to state that it was not a love marriage.

    My mom was suppossed to get married to a High profile hotelier, however he passed away on account of epilepsy on the day of marriage. The groom’s relatives set fire to my mom’s house. This news came out in the newpaper’s. My Dad who happened to read the paper wrote a letter to the editor and got hold of my mom’s address. He got in touch with my maternal grandfather and took his consent to get married to his daughter.

    In the hindsight I feel that Hindus can resolve the challenges which are faced by them.

    Communalisation through conversion is not the method. It is unfortunate to find so called pseudo secular politicians,media and Authors want to score brownie points by projection of pseudo secularism.

    The law of the land must be same for all religions. It cannot be different for minorities and majority.

    The law in India for every citizen is different based on Caste,Religion,Language and Class. It is unfortunate the the Govt and the framework of our Constitution reflects this division.

    Vision is required to resolve the conflict and not create a vote bank based on divisions.

  18. shyodha Says:

    I disagree with your paralysed-analysis; Hindu Civilization is surviving despite the efforts of your ilk.

    I wish nimmaantavru niyattinda convert Agi, yesuvina rakta, i.e. red wine-U kudkoMdu, leave us alone-U!

  19. Ram Says:

    >>>Mostly those who come from low castes and feel ashamed to reveal who they are and what caste they belong to. Christianity gives them a respectable identity and they may be tempted also with jobs and money.<<<

    This is false. Many converted Christians never claim their religion as Christianity. They continue with Hindu names and Hindu religion and claim the reservations. So there is no question of converting out of feeling shame.

    Also poor people from Upper Caste who are ‘proud’ of their caste are getting converted to Christianity just because they are emotionally compelled to get converted.

  20. Alok Says:

    While I generally don’t enjoy defending URA, I get a feeling most of the peoplpe who have posted here have not even read what he has to say, or if they have, have not understood what he is saying.

    All those people who keep ranting about “provoked”, “violent defence” seem to be missing the point that if Christians are doing something illegal, it is for the State to take action, and not the Bajrang Dal or any rag tag bunch of lathi swinging goons.

    … and if you really Hindu culture is great and amazing, why will you worry what a foul mouthed Christian moron has to say about it?

    If he calls Hindus violent and stupid aren’t you proving his point by attacking him for it?

    The argument “he called me names” as an excuse to indulge in violence hasn’t been bought by any one since I was three, and it is pathetic that evidently educated people here are resorting to it in a most infantile fashion.

  21. Democracy Says:

    Thought provoking article. @sarvagnas: I doubt that there has ever been a Hindu civilization. Hindu word is more central asian and arabic. I know of Chinese Civilization, Indian civilization, etc. Islam spread in India beacuase of these injustices to the Shudras. Now christianity is spreading as this is dominant force in the word. Saris have vanished in recent past, 70% Indians are now non vegetarians. Cultural conversions have already happened. Days of so called Hinduism are numbered in my opinion. I hope and pray that sooner or later all temple priest will be people of lower casts.

  22. shyodha Says:

    “As a Kannada writer I feel ashamed and angry and feel helpless too.”

    O-ho-ho-ho! Very-very big words, indeed. Just be aware that some of us feel ashamed that you are Kannadiga.

  23. Mysore Peshva Says:

    Making big claims with no supporting argument, no supporting facts?

    Anantha Murthy ka bheja thoda saTkela hai, baap.

  24. Thyampanna Shettru Says:

    URA should know that there are millions of poor people in Christian countries. Racism, color-based discrimination, poverty, disease – Why can’t those missionaries focus on their own people first?

  25. Tathagata Mukherji Says:

    Hindu tolerance comes from Hindu universalism. If one stands beside a vast lake, one can see the blue sky reflected in the waters of the lake. However, if a peeble is thrown in the water, it creates ripples, goes on expanding concentric circles creating disturbance. Hindu universalism is like vastness of water than the blue sky. Its dynamic. This disturbance arises when its consciousness of universalism is challenged. Religious conversion, Cow slaughter are outer limit of Hindu Universalism, and always create ripple.

    Here is one example from the life of Swami Vivekanand (narrated by Swami Nikhilanand, a major RK Mission figure) when one missionary abused Hinduism (taken from “Hinduism for our times”, Arvind Sharma):

    “There were on board (when Swami returning from Chicago), among other passengers, two Christian Missionaries who, in course of heated discussion with the Swami, lost their tempers and savegely criticized Hindu religion.

    The Swami walked to one of them, sized him by the collar, and said menacingly, “If you abuse my religion again, I will throw you overboard.”

    “Let me go, sir,”, the frightened missionary aologized; “I will never do it again.”

    Later Swami asked his disciple in Calcutta: “What would you do if someone insulted your mother?”. The disciple answered, “I would fall upon him, sir, and teach him a good lesson.”

    “Bravo!”, said the Swami. “Now, if you had the same positive feeling for your religion, your true mother, you could never see any Hindu brother converted to Christianity. Yet you see this occuring everyday, and you are quite indifferent. Where is your faith? Where is your patriotism? Every day Christian missionaries abuse Hinduism to your face, and yet how many are there amongst you whise blood boils with righteous indignation and who will stand up in its defense?”

    Attacking peoples place of worship is not supportable. But U Amantha Murthy (UA) is living in fools paradise if he thinks, Hinduism never opposed conversion, or its abuse. UA is completely mum on abuse of Hinduism by a section of missionaries, and organized conversion agenda funded from abroad. Imagine, what would have happened if (say) RSS published a booklet using same language as in “Satya Darshini”, and replaced Hindu Gods with Xtian God/Islamic God. Its this double standard that has made people of UA’s stature completely exposed.

  26. Pulikeshi the Last Says:

    Generally speaking, URA lets other people speak for him about his views whenever his ideas are talked about at this blogsite. That he has chosen to speak in his own voice this time here is an interesting situation.

    Before I say anything about his consummate skill in using rhetoric to make himself come off as unshakeably noble, holier than others, let me first say that we, most of us, agree with the obvious that he states with such charming conviction: persecuting any minority is group is wrong, dead wrong. It is wrong to inflict violence on any community, it is indefensible to try to still the voice of any group through terrorism, whether in Dakshina Kannada or Davanagere. All right, Dr. URA? Yes, I remember your memorable statement that you feel ashamed to be a Kannadiga in Vikrantha Karnataka, whose goal is to make you the equivalent of Mother Teresa.

    Now for the crafty, ambiguous gambit. “The sangh parivar is destroying Hindu civilisation.” The first question is whether any civilisation can be saved regardless of its proclaimed virtues, when its springs run dry and it has no major role to play in the daily lives of those who used to be its practitioners. If Hinduism with its civilisation is fated to disappear, it will do so without anybody’s help. It has survived for three thousand years for no apparent reason with a third of its followers not even knowing why they are Hindus.
    Not too long ago, the Jnaanapeethi proclaimed his allegiance to Communism and the Congress Party, neither of which seems to have expressed much interest in saving the civilisation handed us by history. The Congress has wrought havoc on the Hindu mindset by craftily exploiting its contradictions, benefiting from its caste divisions, and, in fact, keeping those divisions alive to maintain what little power it has over the nation’s imaginary. The Communists have ruled Bengal for decades, but I don’t think they have been able to bedim the tide of militant Hinduism in that state. In Kerala Marx and Hegel still live side by side with Hindu capitalists, Christian Evangelicals, and Muslim Zamindaars. Perhaps the former V-C of Gandhi U can tell us what these parties have done to neutralise the at least some of the life-denying attributes of Hindu civilisation.

    I know a little bit about Narayana Guru’s work in bringing a sense of pride to his community, but the Advaitin Shankara? What aspect of the greatness of Hindu civilisation does his cruel career of destroying Budhism show that we have a civilisation that tolerates differences? Dr. Murthy’s mention of Shankara is a way of telling mindless Hindu fundamentalists that he finds much good in them.

    I would have expected better than a catalogue of the usual reasons by disenfranchised, low caste Hindus become Christians. As Raj has rightly wondered, why call oneself a Dalit Christian instead of a Christian? What has Indian Christianism done to confer on converts a sense of purpose and validity? If their quality of life improves after conversion, it is not because they follow the ideals of Jesus, but because their original identity as outcastes is still retained and they are promised all the heavenly gifts on earth by those who convert them. More often than not, those gifts get lost on the way and the converts risk rejection from those in their community who did not convert and those in the happy villas of Mangalore and the bungalows in Bangalore who work as conduits for money that pours in from foreign countries to convert them. It is an old irony that the oppressed become oppressors themselves if they get a chance. Thus we have a new mindset destroying what is best in them, and it is not just the irrational anger of Hindus who are incapable of understanding the need to abolish our caste differences.

    Let us not forget the condescending remark that most of the caring and gentle nurses in our hospitals are Christians. “Most?” How about Hindu and Muslim nurses who take the oath to protect the life of their patients as seriously as Christian nurses? Isn’t it for a purely historical reason that until recently the nursing profession attracted mostly Christians, i.e. hospitals were run by missionary institutions?

    No one organisation owns or has the power to destroy Hindu civilization, whatever that means. India has reached point where we have half a billion people living on less than a living wage. The lack of political vision on the part of those who fought for freedom without any idea what a free India without education would be like is what is feeding zealotry in the major religions in the country. Blame the Parivar by all means. Let us also remember that people like Dr. Murthy with their tremendous prestige have done little to influence the actions of subsequent governments by providing a vision of how a harmonious society can be created by offering people a way to earn a decent living. Why accept honors and privileges from governments that are corrupt and have shown no interest in listening to the accumulated wisdom of our thinkers? Is Medha Patkar a Bharat Ratna? Will Arundathi Roy ever be a Padma Vibushane? Will Kalkuli Viththala Hegde ever receive a Raajyothsava award?

    If our intellectuals had the moral courage to oppose the actions of our thuggish governments, the governments might think twice before condoning violent religiosity.

    Do something real, Dr. Murthy. Return all the honors and privileges you have received from various state and central government authorities over the decades. You will surely gain an audience that will pay respectful attention to you. Tagore did so to protest British brutality. Our own Shivaraama Kaaranth did so to protest Indiramma’s emergency murderous thirst. Incidentally, I don’t think Kaaranth would ever have said that he was ashamed to be a Kannada writer.

  27. N Says:

    Can you post an excerpt from Satyadarshini, the literature that seems to have caused this controversy? Would really appreciate it.

  28. B.N.Gururaj Says:

    For the christian missionaries, it is a case of sowing wind and reaping whirlwind. When they dispense hate towards Hindu culture, what do they expect to get? Love or another cheek?

    None interferes with christians or muslims practising their religion. Leave Hindus alone. Everything will be alright.

  29. Avva Madesa Says:

    muchkondirappa

  30. BrahmakShatra Says:

    Violent means is not in the interest of Hindus.

    I have seen many hillocks and boulders around Karnataka on which some Christian groups write all sorts of messages to corrupt the mind of poor and innocent Hindus. At some places Hindu organizations have written countering messages. I think the current issue is a magnification of this. Both the messages have harmed the natural beauty of the guDDas and kallu baNDes. Of course, the second set of messages were there mainly because of the first set.

    How many people who are born Xtians come out and condemn their evils like forced conversions, superstitions, fake miracles land grabbing donations etc? Whereas amongst Hindus, criticisms come within for any small issue. We regarded the Charvaka thought also as a darshana. Do Abrahamic religions force people not to have an open mind?

  31. AK Says:

    U R A… quit hogging the soap box and step off. Such spurious arguments could only be expected from a half-wit like you. If you’re done pontificating, why don’t you write another filthy ‘pustaka’ degrading your own roots?

    — “The BJP knows that they can’t get the Christian minority votes in Mangalore and Udupi, as they are traditional supporters of the Congress. By attacking Christians now they can make a solid Hindu vote bank. This is most cynical.”

    How can you divine what the BJP knows and doesn’t? And unless you’re a mouthpiece for the Congress, you seriously can’t claim that the BJP is the first and only party ever to strategize on how to get votes??? Hilarious argument!!

    — “Raising the question of ‘forced conversions’ for justifying the attacks on Christians is irresponsible on the part of a government which should protect law and order.”

    Then who should raise the issue of forcible conversions? Will YOU raise them from your comfortable arm-chair?? And besides, you seem to have mastered the art of the ‘strawman’ argument. The Govt of Karnataka did not justify the attacks. You are saying that they did.

    — “Mostly those who come from low castes and feel ashamed to reveal who they are and what caste they belong to. Christianity gives them a respectable identity and they may be tempted also with jobs and money.”

    Did you even bother to read this statement before you submitted your article? Ever heard of the Dalit Christians who are now clamoring for yet another piece of the reservation pie??

    —” Attacking people who are praying to whatever God is the most irreligious act on the part of Hindus.”

    Indeed! I take it you mean to say that you only uphold Hindus to such high standards? People of other hallowed religions are free to defame and besmirch revered Hindu gods as they please…. because that’s freedom of speech? I guess when a christian missionary preys on the sick and the desperate to convert if they want to live is mighty religious?

    —“The Sangh Parivar is destroying Hindu civilization.”

    And I say, it’s you and your ilk of self-haters who are embarrassed of their own culture and roots who are the bane of Hindu civilization. Or maybe you’re just a publicity hog who actually prays to Rama and Krishna 10 times a day in the privacy of your home.

  32. Vivek Says:

    It is pertinent to note that preying on the ignorance and lack of education of dalits/tribals by paying them petty cash to go and commit arson is just as despicable as exploiting that ignorance to win converts. After all no self-respecting educated guy would accept money to go and beat up someone.

    No difference between missionaries and the bajrangis in that respect: both prey on the same victims.

    All talk about Sangh Parivar building schools and service is nonsense considering that they pay uneducated and unemployed fellows to go out and plunder :-) You really think the guy burning structures/houses, who is himself uneducated, cares a shit about education and progress?

  33. Reanna Pereira Says:

    Dear H.M and L Raj,

    Are you from Mangalore? Do you know the exact situation there?

    98% of Mangalore’s population is literate. So these so called conversions are not of the ignorant people.

    Though we constitute only 2% of Karnataka’s population we have contributed equally to the economic growth of our state, Karnataka. Do we deserve to be treated like this? Do we need to fear to practice our religion?

    Do conversion give the Bajrang Dal the right to vandalize Churches? Christians have never been involved in communal riots.

    When Graham Staines and his sons were burned alive , were any Hindus killed in retaliation. Not a single Hindu or temple was attacked. Only protests were held and the culprit was caught.

    As a practicing Christian I have never seen my fellow christian being treated as a Dalit.

    Please get your facts right as this whole situation is a gimmick by the BJP to get votes. Mangalore has recently become a playground of terror for these politicians.

    Freedom of religion is every Indian’s right. Don’t try to to take it away from me.

  34. swamy Says:

    WHERE ARE THE DAMN PAMPHLETS?????….the ones that apparently fuelled this whole mess?…… I hope the journalistic-body that reads Churumuri will take notice.

    When U.R. Anantha Murthy’s letter can be published….
    When the Indian Mujahideen’s email to the press can be published….
    Where is the ‘god-forsaken’ pamphlet that supposedly insults the Hindu gods?

    The New Life Church can, of course, be expected (some may say counted on) to destroy its pamphlets…but what about the blessed purveyors of frontier justice- the Rama Sene and Bajrang Dal???

    As one of the janata for who’s attention the scoop-hungry media competes, i would have like to have seen the alleged pamphlet hit the news by now… blogosphere or electronic media at least…

    Surely they Sangh must be itching to prove their carefully planned and executed attacks had some basis. Perhaps the printer was closed because of the bandh…

  35. Namaste Says:

    With all due respect for Rev. Kittel, never forget that he was assisted by local hindu school teachers in composing the dictionary. Why isnt that also acknowledged? Dictionary writing was a great thing – but it was also necessary for translating the Bible and associated literature. URA knows these things and again ashamed to speak.

    Its good that path taken by Narayana Guru is being appreciated by URA – it is heartening to see.

    He has ignored the name of Basavanna – whose name and movement is used by modern day Lingayats in a big way crediting him for having eradicated the menace of untouchability to a large extent in Karnataka. May be the swamiji of Chitradurga math and URA should be made to debate on this topic.

    And this topic of “low caste people only getting converted into christianity” – leave aside Goa inquisation. I happened to hear from swamiji of Gadag Tontadarya math sometime back this line – and also he inisted that no Lingayat has ever converted to Christianity. Have we all forgotten the name of Rev. Uttangi Chenna Basappa – who compiled the tripadis of Sarvajna ?

  36. Vishal Says:

    Reanna,

    Christians need to understand that the issue religious conversions which are sanctioned and encouraged in the abrahamic religions is a sensitive one in a country like India. They actively proselytize, berate other Gods – I have seen this personally.

    Also, get your facts right about dalit christians. Their status is still the same even when they get converted – equality is just a mirage promised to them. How come dalit christians are encouraged to seek reservation then? Even Mother Teresa campaigned to extend the rights to converted dalits.

    If christianity had been equal, this world would not have seen racism.

  37. C Says:

    1) People say there are “forced conversions”. Can someone explain, if i do not want to convert my religion, how i can be coerced or ‘forced’ to do so? And if i am somehow ‘forced’ to convert, how will those forcing me to convert ensure that i really practice the religion? I do not understand the mechanism of ‘forced’ conversion.

    2) If, then, ‘forced’ conversion is not possible, then those converted must have done so with their own consent. And if they consented to convert to another religion, what business is it of ours if they do so? Under Article 25 of the Indian Constitution all persons are equally entitled to freedom of conscience and the right freely to profess, practise and propagate (any) religion.

    3) How does some people converting religion mean that you can injure nuns, vandalize churches and other property and generally terrorize people? How are free conversions any of your business?

    Anyone willing to explain?

  38. Reanna Pereira Says:

    Dear Vishal,

    Since I’m from Mangalore, I am talking about the situation in Mangalore. There is no Dalit Christian in Mangalore as far as I have heard.

    And I just want to ask, ‘Christians have been living peacefully in Mangalore form many many years. Why this sudden burst of anger?’

    I am totally against any forceful conversion as it is wrong. Forcing down ones religion on others is wrong and Bible say its a sin. I’m not for that. But if it is out of choice it should not be a problem or create one.

    Everyone accuses Christians of conversion.
    Visit ISKCON, Sathya Sai Baba Ashram, Mata Amritananda Ashram, Ravi Shankar ashram and various world famous Hindu priests places, you would find so many foreigners and Indians who were Christians and have converted to Hinduism. They have liked the people and the message being taught over there and converted to Hinduism. Similarly if a Hindu likes the Christian message he is free to convert.

    Charges of forced conversion of Christians in ashrams can be levied on others as well, but we dont make this an issue, since Jesus taught to live in peace with everyone, love your neighbours as yourself and, to forgive ones enemies and have love for GOD. Learn to live in peace with everyone.

    We should be able to respect every religion and live in peace. I am writing this because Churches have been vandalized. Our blessed Sacrament which even we cannot touch was dishonored. It is disturbing because my brothers and elders in my family are sleeping in our parish to protect it.

    I am sorry but I cannot accept that conversion was the reason behind the attacks.

    I reiterate that this whole situation is a gimmick by the BJP or politicians in general to get votes. Mangalore has recently become a playground of terror for these politicians.

  39. C Says:

    Frankly my opinion is that these people are just Hindu Supremacists, just like the White Supremacists in the USA (KKK) blinded by their bias toward Hinduism which manifests itself in these statements. No rational unbiased human being could argue that killing christians is justified because of conversions to that religion.

  40. jack Says:

    The only thing that URA claims and takes (dis)credit is changing the name of Banaglore to Bengaluru. Another of his stupid idea.

  41. Avva Madesa Says:

    Alok,
    u may be okay if they call hindu gods names but Iam not.

    Ours is a culture that has worshipped sun, moon, snakes , maaramma, bandamma for years, non intrusively and they must be alowed to continue the way they are, because they still are non intrusive. Holier than thou attitudes and True Gods and True prohets are indications of sick mentalities and must be treated like. Globalisation of religion will always foment trouble and history of India, more than that of any other country, is testimony to this. That our secular historians paint the violence committed with a religious motive with the brush of economics is another matter

  42. Shantarama Says:

    I can be called a cultural Hindu who is an atheist. But I am let down by the so called ‘Intellectuals’ of our country. I am let down because I live in fear of the radical Monotheistic religions like Islam and christianity. Unlike in the west there is no proper crtique of these two fanatic religions in India by the so called ‘Intellectuals’, ‘Secularists’ and ‘Bleeding Heart Liberals’. The basic teachings of these religions are quite clear and the adherents leave no stone unturned to preach the intolerance to other faiths who do not believe in their monotheistic god or worldview. Apart from this they have this avowed aim of converting everyone to their point of view. Our history has been witness to the mass massacres the religious zealots of Islam (too numerous to mention) and Christianity (the goan inqusition, papal bull) have carried out. But what I find is there is no critic of these two religions and strain of thoughts. We are told by these ‘intellectuals’ that we are Hindus and we should all keep quiet and not retaliate. We are told to focus on bringing equality in Hinduism and focus on eradicating caste system. Being an atheist and a socialist I do not beleive in Caste system. But I am deeply concerned about these monotheistic religions because I feel they are a threat to my atheistic and scientific sensibilities.
    But unfortunately I do not find any Intellectual attacking the openly preached doctrines of these monotheistic faiths in India. UR Anathamurthy comes out as a small time politician who attacks the sensibilities of a majority religious faith of Hindus. Again it is such a huge and diverse conglomerate of beleif systems that Hindus have. But volumes have been written by these BLHs on the horros of Hinduism.
    My question is where are the real intellectuals not the psuedo ones like URA. Where are our Indian versions of Richard Dawkins, Christhopher Hitchens, Sam Harris and Daniel Derret. We have a huge vaccum and people like URA a part of this big black hole. THey are part of the problem and not the solution.

  43. Andy Says:

    “Offensive” Literature

    Attn N, Swamy and others who wanted to know the “offensive publication”. Here is the link from Deccan Herald:

    http://deccanherald.com/Content/Sep182008/state2008091790577.asp

  44. voiceofneil Says:

    Our Minister has double standards. He says one thing to the press and shows something else on his blog. He has carefully selected a few photographs to show how violent Christians were. But never spoke of the other bit of why Christians did it.
    God bless our State.
    Visit: http://drvsacharya.blogspot.com/

  45. voiceofneil Says:

    I went through the website, and it looked to me that deccan herald had copied it from a website. Though i dont aggree to whats written there, This is an eye opener to me. If the so called HIndu Gods can do so many blunders, then why are they GODS….why do they need to be worshipped?
    Anyways, i dont want to get to commenting on that aspect.

    My only question is, Islam in its holy book denies any religion in the world…Has Bajrang dal had the ability to burn their mosque or their Quran? and why is it trying to protect their GODS. I thought Gods had the ability to protect themselves.
    If the Gods are so weak that they cant manage things themselves and need the help of Mortals like VHP and BAJRANG DAL. Then they arent Gods for me…..
    Think about it brothers, I am not being derogatory here. Just trying to bring out some sense in all of us.

  46. vandemataram Says:

    Anantha murhty has shown hi s avanthara ,, he cant condemn bomb blasts he cant condemn attacking on hindu temples, he cant condemn killing of Swamy lakshmananada, he cant open his mouth on flag burning in some parts but any thing against BJP hinduism , he opens his mouth.

    i dont know how he calls he himself a kannada writer, who has never seen in any kannada related issues, have never written any material thats worth or have seen 3-4 re-prints. He has many faces which are totally useless, some times he goes to a political function and acts as a politician. Some times he says he dont goto any function where there is a politician. Some times he calls himself secular but addresses individual by their cast., he calls himself a writer but hasnt given any classic material worth reading. He wants every one to help poor and backward but he lives in a dollors colony house.

    but one thing is his character is a worth movie material, to show people how not behave in society:)

  47. Gunda Says:

    Problem is, there is no forceful conversion , but there are conversions by luring the people with the power of money.

    Conversion is wrong and attacking the whole community like this is also equally wrong.

    why the BJP’s have to do this when they have the power and majority with them to bring some legislation?

    #1. Add to the law that “luring” public to change faith and religion is also a punishable offense.

    #2. Since the conversion issue has always sparked violence and hatred , conversion is bad for this land , and law of the land discourages it by making the “convert” loose all benefits (like reservation etc) from the Govt.

    #3. All converts should inform the government, and get all their legal records(ration card, ) changed. this very step will discourage any individual to get legally converted.

    first do this , and fix it as and when required.

    at least this will discourage mass conversions.

  48. harish Says:

    People,watch Zee kannada and 4m early morning 6 or 6:30, some organisation like new life conducts lectures. Its very obvious that they try to play on peoples emotions. The guy who conducts all these, all of a sudden starts crying Oh God Oh God anta :) Ridiculous. Our ignorant people in villages get swayed by their draama ashte. URA personifies the character of professor Shastry in S L Byrappas novel Aavarana. May be SLB had URA in mind when he wrote the novel :)

  49. Reanna Pereira Says:

    Dear Shantarama,

    If you have an opinion please go ahead and put you view across…please retaliate. But take the legal course.

    As I said before, when Graham Staines and his sons were burned alive , were any Hindus killed in retaliation? Not a single Hindu or temple was attacked. Only protests were held and the culprit was caught.

  50. Gaby Says:

    Just reading from the DH link, the statements are badly written/ crudely expressed and certainly make for very bad reading. However they are not absolutely wrong- after all Vashista was an offspring of Urvashi who was an apsara etc. I can see the dumbed down Bajrang Dal worker taking umbrage at this crappy writing. Whilst saying that freedom of expression is very very important trhe person expressing himself / herself should take care to be responsible and not create controversy for the sake of controversy.

    Heck and pigs will fly!

  51. Shantarama Says:

    Dear Reanna Pereira,

    I would neither take legal action nor retaliate. I have better things to do in life than physically or legally fight over religions. All I have done is state my views.

    My biggest peeve against these (so called) intellectuals like Ananthamurthys, Arundathy Roys etc is why these double standards. They leave no stone unturned to critique, abuse the Hindu faith, beliefs and culture. I have no problems with that. I don’t see much reason in arcane and unfounded beliefs. But why don’t they apply the same measure to Islam and Christianity. The so called left wing liberals in India have not done one proper critique of Islam or Christianity or their social and cultural movements.
    But thank goodness that the World is flat and this is the information age. We have access to the works of good many critics like Dawkins, Hitchens and Sam Harris. Thank goodness that these psuedo intellectuals have no mass standing as it is very clear that they have a vicious political agenda.

  52. Not A Witty Nick Says:

    Rev. Kittel was relegated to Ethiopia as a punishment for neglecting his primary duty — Proselytisation!

    How does one become Secular™®?

    I. By Marriage. or
    II. By Double-Talk or aD gODE mEl deepa Talk or
    III. By Political Affiliation (depending on the Religious Affiliation of the Vote-Bank) or
    IV. By Media Attention or
    V. All of the above.

  53. etvraviraja Says:

    Voice of neil: before making fun of hindu gods, please check the birth certificate of Jesus. Check the column, parents names. If you can find any entry there, please go on posting comments!

    as far as the offending literature, here goes:(excerpts)
    The Following are the list of abuses from one such book  Satya Darshini  distributed by the missionaries of New Life. This book is in Kannada and the translation of the abusive passage is as follows.

    Urvashi  the daughter of Lord Vishnu is a prostitute. Vashitha is the son of this prostitute. He in turn married his own Mother. Such a degraded person is the Guru of the Hindu God Rama. (page 48)

    When Krishna himself is wallowing in darkness of hell, how can he enlighten others? Since Krishna himself is a shady character, there is a need for us to liberate his misled followers. (page 50)

    It was Brahma himself who kidnapped Sita. Since Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva were themselves the victims of lust, it is a sin to consider them as Gods. (page 39)

    When the Trinity of Hinduism (Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva) are consumed by lust and anger, how can they liberate others. Their projection as Gods is nothing but a joke. (page 39).

    When Vishnu asked Brahma to commit a sin, he immediately did so. How can such a “evil brahma” be a Creator of this Universe? How is it possible for both the sinner and the entity which provoked the sin to be gods? (page 39)

    God, please liberate the sinful people of India who are worshipping False Gods that believe in the pleasures of illicit ‘Vyabichari’ relationships. (Page 39).

  54. Truth From Facts Says:

    Conversion row: Catholics also denounce New Life Church
    Zeenews Bureau

    Bangalore, Sept 18: In a fresh twist to the ongoing conversion row in Karnataka, the Catholics have now joined hands with the Hindu fundamentalists in holding the New Life Church responsible for triggering communal violence in the state.

    Despite unmanageable differences over various issues, Chief Minister B S Yeddyurappa and Mangalore Bishop Dr Aloysius Paul D’souza have launched a verbal attack on the evangelical church for disrupting the secular fabric in the state.

    The New Life Church, which is a fringe protestant church and a part of several new-age revival groups, has been claiming that they are not involved in forced conversions and denies allegations of land grabbing.

    In its defence, the organization has claimed that it works amongst the poor.

    The Church has accused the Hindu fundamentalists for deliberately targeting local Catholics over conversion issue.

    However, the clarifications tendered by the New Life Churchs head pastor has failed to convince the Hindu groups like the Bajrang Dal and the Sri Rama Sena to stop their agitation against the organization.

    The Hindu organizations operating in the state are so peeved with the issue that they are in no mood to provide any concessions what so ever to the Catholics and the fringe Christian groups.

    The continued communal violence is surely giving a tough time to the government of Chief Minister Yeddyurappa, who has allowed the police to take stern action against the Hindu groups.

    Reacting to the issue, Yeddyurappa said, I came to know that the New Life Church is converting people. I requested Catholic Bishop to help us but he’s helpless like us.

    The communal disturbances in Karnataka started after the New Life Church published a controversial book denying the existence of Hindu Gods and targeting the majority community, which triggered attacks on churches and prayer halls.

    Meanwhile, the organization has also come under fire over reports that it is getting foreign funds.

    http://www.zeenews.com/articles.asp?aid=469935&sid=REG

  55. sathya Says:

    EVERYONE SHOULD THANK ura FOR he opened the gates to express their feelings. Thanks. People should also see satyadarshini in which the author who must have seen only one face of the Hinduism has made sarcastic remarks. We should also appreciate him. At the same time let the same author condemn what is bad in other religions objectively and publish it.

  56. ganjibhatta Says:

    Throw all religions and Gods into the Arabian Sea. Till then there is no salvation to the human beings….

  57. Tathagata Mukherji Says:

    Shantaram>Where are our Indian versions of Richard Dawkins, Christhopher Hitchens, Sam Harris and Daniel Derret.

    Correct. Their fundas are one-sided- applies to Hindus alone. So far I have seen, Taslima Nasreen (writes in Bengali) tried to push a true humanism, secular ideals in her writings. Her books criticised Hinduism (and for that matter EVERY religion) greatly. But now she is banished for writing one line in Dwikhandita (she questioned the wisdom that women’s situation improved with advent of Islam).

    Voice of Neil>>Has Bajrang dal had the ability to burn their mosque or their Quran?

    Swami Vivekanand once asked missionaries to go to Muslim Mohallas and try abuse Islam, and convert Muslims to Xnity. Obviously, that has not happened so far.

    Reanna Pereira:

    1. Help me understand, why BJP will start the fight in Mangalore when we all know areas near Udupi, Mangalore are bastion of Hindutva. Specially when their conference was going on in Bangalore. And fire is already burning in Orissa.

    2. Unlike Muslims, Xtians are tiny minority and not distributed all over India. So, creating anti-Xtian hysteria does NOT pay electoral dividend.

    3. I agree with you, violence is NOT the right way. Legal action must be taken. However, we all know how media, politicians deliberately play mischief.

    4. Large number of young Xtians (economically prosperous) participated in the demos, some took to violence. End of the day, if this feeling is going to continue (thanks to our media, and politicians always thinking for vote), it will create more division in and around mangalore. That’s the biggest danger.

  58. Tarlemaga Says:

    I need to bring to URA’s notice that Narayana Guru did not not convert himself to Christianity.

    He is a role model for Hindus in Kerala. All he did was worked within the framework of the Hindu society to give them well deserved respect and honour.

    Instead of bringing out constructive ideas to modernize Hinduism you have gone about attacking Hindus.

    It is unfortunate that you have a Pseudo Secular view point

  59. Hiker Says:

    @voiceofneil

    When Jesus could not save himself from crucifixion how can he save the world? How can he be called “the GOD”….why does he need to be worshiped?
    Anyways, i don’t want to get to commenting on that aspect.

    >>I thought Gods had the ability to protect themselves

    Exactly..even I had thought the same thing..but JEsus could not save himself..
    Anyways, i don’t want to get to commenting on that aspect.

    If the “the GOD” like JEsus is so weak that he needs the help of mortals who indulge in proselytizing and evangelists to spread his thoughts then he is not God for me…

    Think about it brothers, I am not being derogatory here. Just trying to bring out some sense in all of us.

  60. MallaPottell Says:

    Ref. to below mentioned

    I just wonder if some the perpetuators of riots are churumri bloggers

    Terror mail writers may not be madrassa products (could be Bajrangi Konkanas)
    Aditya Kaul
    Thursday, September 18, 2008 04:30 IST

    Handwriting analysis shows they are urban-bred and may not know Urdu

    NEW DELHI: The emails sent before the serial blasts of Delhi, Ahmedabad, Jaipur and Uttar Pradesh have been signed by three individuals, but one of them was only trying to copy the signature of the group leader just before Jaipur blasts, according to one of India’s leading graphologists.

    The graphologist, who has helped the police in several investigations, believes that all the signatories are urban bred, English-speaking individuals, who may have had almost no madrassa education, if they are Muslims. “It is quite possible that the three persons who have signed the documents do not know Urdu language. And that’s because the strokes in the signature of a person who knows how to write and read Urdu are distinctively different. There is no reason to conclude that all of them are Muslims,” he said.

    “These people are well educated men and have been born and brought up in metros. They have sound family backgrounds and have been brought up in families with a modern outlook,” the handwriting expert said.

    DNA had over the past two days consulted with some of India’s leading psychologists and handwriting experts to try and figure out the men, and women, if any, who could be playing a key role in the terror groups that are wreaking havoc across Indian cities.

    Yesterday, DNA carried detailed psychological profiles of the writers of the five terror mails, in which the psychologists surmised that the writers were in the age group of 20-50 and suffered from anti-social personality disorder. They were highly educated.
    DNA has now been given a detailed analysis of the signatures on the documents. Four of the five emails have been signed — two of them have been signed as Guru Al Hindi and Al Arbi, the third has been signed only by Al Arbi. The fourth carries a signature faked by someone else for Guru Al Hindi.

    The handwriting expert says there are primarily two people who have signed four of the five emails. These two people — Guru Al Hindi and Al Arbi — are personalities in contrast. One is a confident energetic extrovert individual, while the other is an extremely shy introvert.

    The two have received assistance from a third person, or more, in drafting the emails. The third person whose signature is on the email sent just before the Jaipur blasts seems to have tried to copy Guru Al Hindi’s signature and he is only an understudy, if he is part of it.

    The original Guru Al Hindi looks like the real “executive director” of the group. “He is calm in the head and that’s his plus point,” says the graphologist.

    The expert, who studied the email independent of the group of psychologists whom DNA consulted earlier, has agreed with several of their conclusions, including the fact that the emails were prepared by a small group of at least three people. There have been five emails which have credible links to the terrorists — four of them sent just as the explosions were to happen in the Uttar Pradesh courts, Jaipur, Ahmedabad and Delhi. The fifth was sent to rubbish the Gujarat police’s claims that Simi was behind the Ahmedabad blasts.

  61. Tathagata Mukherji Says:

    Let a Hindu be a better Hindu. Let a Muslim be a better Muslim. Let a Xtian be a better Xtian. This was motto and goal of MK Gandhi, whom Congress claims are their ideal.

    Today, what a section of Church is doing in the name of “freedom of religion” is NOT religion. Its pure Geopolitical game- converting poor people, abusing other religion.

    West is funding these activities to create chaos, confusion to stop rise of Asia, particularly India, CHina. However, history is brutal. This white west european male interest cannot stop rise of Asia.

  62. Tathagata Mukherji Says:

    >>Terror mail writers may not be madrassa products

    The person who cut throat of Danny Pearl was a product of British Private School, and London School of Economics. Jinnah was not product of Madrasa either. Zia Ul Haq- who Islamized Pak army, Society was a product of St. Stephens, Delhi……..list goes on.

    What’s new in what they wrote?

  63. mayura Says:

    By the way somebody from the sangh parivar should start publishing books about fallacy of bible and christianity…they could start with Adam and Eve.

    Let me contribute the first fallacy in the old testament.

    If God created Adam first and then he created Eve out of Adams rib bone, that would biologically make Eve, Adam’s daughter.

    But God encourages them to marry and bear kids. So a father marries his own daughter. So what would that make Christians,Jews and Muslims who claim to be descendants of Adam and Eve?

    Since, I am in a expansive mood today, let me also contribute a second point.

    Adam and Eve have two kids…Kane and Abel…both boys, as per old testament…and they did not have any daughters. But still Kane and Abel went on and multiplied and grew their family. When all this was happening, there was only one woman around Eve. Now, what does that tell you about Kane,Abel and Eve ?

  64. Bhamy V. Shenoy Says:

    I am originally from a small town of Bantwal near Mangalore where we have Hindus, Christians and muslims more or less in equal proportion. When I was growing up, I never came across even once fight between people belonging to different religions. I cannot say there was much interaction at social level between different religious groups. But we lived peacefully. Today the situation has completeley changed. You can guess which class is responsible for this sad state of affairs.

    Last year I was conducting an experiment called “True Education” by having 90 minutes session on different topics. One of the subjects was world relgions and what they have achieved. During the discussin one of the participants started to talk about conversion and how they were using all kinds of allurements. When some other student asked who was converting whom, she elaborated. She said that she was catholic and how protestants were trying to convert. She was joined by another student. At that time I did not attach any importance to it.

    However in light of what has happened I can reflect upon that discussion in a different way. These participants were coming from distant villages. Conversion there was not based on caste or on illiterate or poor, but on ordinary people using all kinds of allurements. If we had intelligence system working they would have found this kind of things and tried to find solution before it became a problem like this today.

    It is rather sad that some one like UAR without knowing the ground reality gives some theoretical explanation and fishes in dirty water. If he was serious about saving hindu religion, he could have been more balanced in his views. No Hindus would justify the violence nor desecration of churches. But when the so called secularists who are always ready to pounce upon only Hindus make critical comments like this they only create more problem to find solution. If Jiddu Krishnamurthy was alive and were to make statements about the problem, he would have carried a lot of credibility.

  65. Reanna Pereira Says:

    Dear Tathagata Mukherji,

    Though the BJP might be strong in Dakshin Karnataka, its main vote bank consists of the senior and middle aged citizens. They have not got the attention or the loyalty of the young generation, which today consists a large vote bank.

    These attacks were mainly conducted to divide the people of Mangalore based on religion by instilling hatred and anger in the hearts of the youngsters. To make friends fight against each other. The BJP has used the divide and rule policy. Which when I see now is already working. I must commend this…it always works.

  66. yeshu Says:

    UR Ananthmurthy never misses an opportunity to hog some limelight when such a situation arises…just because he is married to a christian doesnt mean that all Christians are innocent…one can expect such clashes when the instigate the majority community…

    i know myself as to how these Christians brainwash innocent gullible people…they keep feeding that “jesus is the only god” crap again and again till the person is kinda hypnotized..

    it is a good thing that these Christian groups have come under the scanner..

  67. Reanna Pereira Says:

    Dear Tathagata Mukherji,

    >>3. I agree with you, violence is NOT the right way. Legal action must be taken. However, we all know how media, politicians deliberately play mischief.

    Are commending or should I say in agreement with the Bajrang Dal destroying the Churches in Mangalore? So do you suggest that I and my fellow Christians also retaliate in the same manor by breaking you holy Temples, since as you say “we all know how media, politicians deliberately play mischief”?

    Forceful conversions are wrong but does it give you the right to destroy a holy place of worship?

  68. sathya Says:

    Who wrote is not important here. What are the results is important? Whether it urban-educated or rural-oriented it doesn’t matter. Who are the sufferers in all these blasts?

  69. Ashwini Says:

    Nietzsche was right. He said God is dead and we have murdered Him. All of us – Hindus, Christians, Muslims and others…

  70. Justfine Says:

    @Ganjibhatta

    As a Hindu, I’m ready to do that as my religion gives me that freedom. But can these “true god” evangelists and “only god” prophesiers follow the same path? If they are so adamant about spreading their religions, why shouldn’t I be aggressive to save my religion, in turn my culture.

  71. Mohan Says:

    I hereby declare that I am moved to tears by UR Ananth Murthy’s love of Hindu Civilization. Since I never saw the man speak highly of it, I thought he didn’t give a damn. At least the Bajrang Dal should be given credit for brining out this Hindu-loving side of the man.

  72. Gershom Says:

    Are the Bajrang Dal, BJP and the VHP saying that the Gods are not powerful enough, it needs thier help for protection. They should learn what hinduism is about, it is a journey, a search for truth and hinduism has place for Jesus, Jahowah, Allah, Guru Govind Singh, Buddha and every body, including you and me.

    We still have foolish, uneducated people in the 21st century, calling themselves hindus. It’s a shame, I for one would not want to be associated with them.

    The BD, BJP and VHP are no better than Terrorists, we have seen how the CM of karnataka, CM of Orissa and the home minister of Karnataka has responded. Even, people without a sound mind would not behave the way they did. They are worst than stone age people.

    They are serious problems then conversion in Karnataka. Conversion is good, at least they are garanteed Eternal Life, at least that is what the pentecostals say.

  73. Anonymous Guy Says:

    Let a Bengali be a better Bengali babu moshai. This was motto and goal of R Tagore, whom Bongs claims are their ideal.

    Today, what a section of Bengali is doing in the name of “freedom of speech” is NOT speech. Its pure Spamming game- converting good ideas to bad, abusing other religion.

    Spammer Bengali is funding these activities to create chaos, confusion to stop rise of others, particularly Kannadigas. However, history is brutal. This Psuedo-Intellectual Bengali male interest cannot stop rise of Karnataka.

  74. Anonymous Guy Says:

    The person who cut throat of people in the name of Naxalism was a product of Bengali Thought. Mamta Banerjee was not product of Bengali school of thought either. Jyothi Basu- who communized Bengali society
    was a product of Presidency College, Calcutta……..list goes on.

    What’s new in what they wrote?

  75. Not A Witty Nick Says:

    Are the Bajrang Dal, BJP and the VHP saying that the Gods are not powerful enough, it needs thier help for protection. They should learn what hinduism is about, it is a journey, a search for truth and hinduism has place for Jesus, Jahowah, Allah, Guru Govind Singh, Buddha and every body, including you and me.

    Now read this again, carefully, does not the corollary apply to Christians?

  76. Not A Witty Nick Says:

    Evil GSBs(ref: MallaPottell’s earlier comment), Crafty Bongs … ad hominem attacks! Bring it on!

  77. Not A Witty Nick Says:

    My dear Chrsitian brethren(of your respective pedigrees), I want to know something: Do you serve the ordinary low class(ex-dalits?) with the same tableware that you use for the family(I am talking about the menial types not some bureaucratish types)?

    Plastic disposable cups are not the answer to glass lining!

  78. Anonymous Guy Says:

    “If they are so adamant about spreading their religions, why shouldn’t I be aggressive to save my religion, in turn my culture.”

    Sure. But if the dalits want to convert – who are you to inflict violence on them and decide things for them?

    Why can you not come to terms that dalits and others whom casteism oppressed (and continues to oppress) can do what they want – even if it means a foolish decision to just get away from the frying pan into the fire. It is their choice, not yours.

  79. Prashanth Says:

    @Reanna Pereira

    Pls see www dot christainaggression dot com

  80. shyodha Says:

    “Bogus secularism breeds terrorism” – Balbeer Punj
    [Column in Daily Pioneer]

    How come there are periodic terrorist attacks in India while there has been none in the US since 9/11? Are the terrorists operating here more resourceful and committed than those targeting the US? Is India a bigger hate object for jihadis compared to the rest of the world?

    The answers to these questions are obvious. Since 2005, India has suffered 17 terrorist strikes that have left at least 500 people dead and thousands maimed. But none of the perpetrators has been convicted till now for these ghastly crimes, although India tops the list in terms of civilians falling victim to terrorism. Iraq is the only country that surpasses India in terms of terror-related casualties.

    The self-styled ‘Indian Mujahideen’, which has claimed responsibility for the recent mayhem, is bold enough to give advance warning through e-mail — which is proof of the high level of sophistication the terrorists have achieved. Their mail also discloses the source of their inspiration, an ayat from the Quran. “When you encounter (in fight) those who disbelieve, strike their necks first, till when you have completely massacred and wounded many of them, then bind them firmly (taking them as captives). Thereafter is the time, either for generosity or a ransom until the war lays down its burden.” (Quran 47:4.)

    The core question is: Why are the terrorists becoming so bold as to give advance information? The simple answer is that they bank on the pusillanimous response of the ‘secularists’ to terror attacks. Recall how leading lights of the governing coalition at the Centre, as also of the BSP, visited the house of the main accused in the Gujarat bombings to commiserate with his family that claims he is innocent. Also recall the enthusiasm with which certain constituents of the UPA welcomed the (short lived) lifting of the ban on SIMI. Within days of that tribunal order, subsequently set aside by the Supreme Court, and Minister for Railways Lalu Prasad Yadav welcoming it, there are series of bombings and SIMI is the main suspect!

    It’s not just Cabinet Ministers. The Prime Minister entertains the Jama Masjid Imam who complains against SIMI leaders being detained for the bombings despite ample evidence of their involvement. Should he not have told the Imam that it is the Islamic fundamentalism that people like him preach that is brainwashing young Muslims to join the terrorist organisations?

    There seems to be a conspiracy to avoid facing what the world has come to characterise as pan-Islamic propaganda. It runs like this. The centuries since the ascendance of Islam in West Asia have been the golden age of Islam. Christian Europe succeeded in destroying this golden age by defeating the Ottoman Empire in the west and the Mughal Empire in the east. The Islamic state does not recognise any boundaries nor does it want parliamentary democracy as all laws are already there in the Quran.

    Government is needed only to enforce these laws and, therefore, every law made has to conform to shari’ah. That is why clerics should oversee all laws and regulations. The return to pure Islamic laws can be facilitated only when modernity (like gender equality, education for women, etc) is destroyed and a Caliphate like that which existed during the Ottoman Empire is reinstated. In this endeavour Allah is on their side. The world will accept its subservience to Islam or it shall be forced to accept Islam’s supremacy.

    In this context, it would be relevant to quote from the e-mail sent by the ‘Indian Mujahideen’ minutes before the bombs went off in Delhi last Saturday. Recalling the sacrifices of “two most eminent Mujahids”, Sayyed Ahmad Shaheed and Shah Ismail Shaheed, the mail says, “It is the great handwork of these visionary legends that shall always inspire us inshallah to carry on the struggle and fight against the Kufr till our last breath.”

    Is this the thinking of a handful among Muslims? One hopes so. We have prided ourselves that not a single Indian has been attracted by Osama bin Laden’s fanaticism. But the bombings over the last four years have exposed the undercurrent of sympathy for Osama bin Laden’s doctrine. Or else SIMI could not have spread so fast. Without this sympathy and the funds it brings such widespread conspiracies could not have been successfully implemented. Without this sympathy the conspirators could not have assembled in safe houses, conducted dry runs, and purchased lethal material to assemble bombs and transport them.

    So, when some Muslim leaders issue statements decrying terrorism, they need to be asked why they aren’t also decrying Osama bin Laden’s doctrine. Instead, we have demonstrations where portraits of Osama bin Laden are displayed and he is hailed as the saviour of Islam; hundreds of children are named after this merchant of terror. US President George W Bush is berated at these meetings for dislodging the Taliban regime in Afghanistan that was totally hostile to India.

    National Security Adviser MK Narayanan claims that 800 terrorist sleeper cells have been neutralised. Even if we were to accept this claim, what about the large number of sleeper cells that still function as revealed by the spate of bombings? How do they manage to function if the doctrine of fanaticism does not find favour in the community within which the conspiracies are hatched? Whether in Hyderabad or in New Delhi, the moment the police detain a suspect there is a hue and cry that the community is being targeted.

    These fundamentalist leaders know that the UPA Government has its Achilles heel — the desire not to antagonise the vote-bank of the UPA, including the Congress. This explains why the Prime Minister and his Home Minister did not follow up on the information that Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi shared with them about the threat to Delhi. The Home Minister has the habit of throwing up his hands and donning a defeatist attitude.

    The country needs a Home Minister who will take the battle into the camp of the terrorists, instead of waiting for the terrorists to strike again and again. It is this pusillanimous attitude that is preventing the UPA Government from allowing Gujarat, Madhya Pradesh and Rajasthan from enacting tough anti-terrorism laws. Obviously, the UPA is playing to the gallery. It suits the peddlers of the doctrine of terror well. So, perverse secularism and terrorism go on feeding on each other.

    http://www.dailypioneer.com/columnist1.asp?main_variable=Columnist&file_name=punj%2Fpunj142%2Etxt&writer=punj

  81. Abhi Says:

    For a change I agree with URA for what he says. I am appalled to see so many people directly/indirectly nodding their head for the violence that Hindus radicals have manufactured. I would like to believe that people have not gone through what URA has said because of his credibility in the past on such issues. Converting to a religion of choice should be a fundamental right. This incident proves again that there is nothing called good religion, it can only be either bad or worse. As someone already said, we are in bad need of a Dawkins or a Hitchens for India.

  82. talk_ap Says:

    MR URA
    I have been seeing the conversion attempts from fellow christian friends during my college days..It is because of our RSS friends it was prevented. Every christian school in Karnataka try to influence the students about the greatness of their religion and customs. Every person or organization, who tries to influence or indulge in act of conversion has to be punished.

  83. Anguished Indian Says:

    Christians are being persecuted for converting in the current age (read forcible conversions of Hindus). Muslims are being persecuted for converting in the past (read Babri masjid).

    Are our Hindu friends and colleagues so vulnerable that they have to resort to killing and violence by becoming pawns in the shameful politics that is reflected here?

    Can’t you people even see that this is a systematic erosion of our country’s well being in pursuit of votes running upto the coming elections.

    You could be a religious believer or an atheist, but no one has the right to take lives … and those who do need to be punished, not those who give.

    Educated people blogging on the net, can’t you see the planned systematic genocide of innocent lives here?

    What will make you open your eyes to the injustice and violence going on… are we still an uncivilized country… ready to be dragged into these shameful acts every 15 years?

  84. dharma Says:

    Please give the Hindus a separate place in India where they can live in peace. If the Minority appeasement continues in our country this is sure to happen.

  85. Ramesh Says:

    Mr. URA:

    You are degrading other respected Gnanapeeta awardees, please desist from writing this kind of rubbish.

    If you don’t know what is happening on the ground check these links

    http://greathindu.com/

    http://drvsacharya.blogspot.com/2008/09/attacking-fellow-human-being-which.html

    “What has happened in Dakshina Kannada is a shame.”
    No, we are ashamed of you sir, because of your igorance. If you don’t know how dalits are treated by Christians please check the following links

    http://eraiyurdalits.org/html/march9_10.htm

    http://eraiyurdalits.org/html/dalits.htm

    http://dalitchristian.org

    http://www.dalitchristians.com/Html/Discrimination.htm

    If you want to know how missionaries converting hindus watch the following videos

    Hope you will be enlighted, ofter watching these video, to understand the real problem Hindus are facing today.

  86. mallapottell Says:

    I have been reading comments by people justifying/grieving from mangalore about what happened, the underlying cause, the remedy etc etc. and my opinion is ‘Everything is bullshit’ . Whatever happened, is politically motivated. How do you counter it ?. Violence always requires violence to neutralize it. So, what is the solution.? it is simple. Target the people who initiate this violence. Kill them and their entire families even if they are not part of the problem but belong to the family of person who initiates it. The person who initiates a killing should expect his whole family to be liquidated.
    I’m speaking out of my experience and I follow it to the core. No one likes a looser and if you are one, your existence is at the mercy of others, and it is your own fault that they determine your fate. Live and let others live, so no one bothers you.

  87. Tathagata Mukherji Says:

    Hello Reanna Pereira:

    Guess, nobody supports attacking a Church. But when I said media plays mischief, I meant how VHP/Bajrangis were made culprit by media for Staines episode, though a Commission that looked into that clearly stated: Dara Singh has no relationship with VHP/Bajrangis.

    Same happened with Jhabua- remember? Even Sekhar Gupta, EDITOR OF INDIAN EXP, no friend of BJP, wrote: BJP/RSS had nothing to do with Jhabua.

    Lots of things are at stake here. There is a conscious move by Jehadis to rally (a section of) Xtians, a section of Hindus in the name of “Dalits”, Naxalites and cause HAVOC TO NATIONAL GOVERNMENT. Let the local Catholic and Hindu leaders of Mangalore unite and ensure peace as well as no conversion.

  88. Tathagata Mukherji Says:

    Anon Guy: I have no cure for your suffering what Sudhir Kakkar termed as “Andulous Syndrome”. As stated before, I visit Churumuri because its from a state that is at the heart of globalized India where I am stake holder.

    Why hide behind Taquiyya Name? proclaim your post with your real name. Lets understand who stands where.

  89. shyodha Says:

    I highly recommend the movie ‘Wednesday'; Nasir-ud-deen Shah and Anupam Kher are the in it.

    Watch it. Can not stress more. WATCH.

    mallapottell said : => Target the people who initiate this violence. Kill them and their entire families even if they are not part of the problem but belong to the family of person who initiates it. The person who initiates a killing should expect his whole family to be liquidated.=<

  90. Tarlemaga Says:

    Ban conversion in the name of Religion. Secularism cannot be equated pseudo secularism.

    Secularism means state is blind to Religion. Pseudo Secularism means state uses Religion as a Vote Bank.

    I can vouch conversion is forced as I have seen it from a close quarters while studying in a minority institution. The minute there is a law in place I will go to the nearest police station and lodge the case against the conspirators.

    Formulate a anti conversion law and you will see peace. People who are being forced can go to the nearest police station and lodge a criminal case against the hood winkers. Nobody likes violence as a method but since the law does not exist.

    Tamilnadu and Gujarat are the only states who have implemented Anti Conversion law. This needs to be enforced Nation wide.

  91. Avva Madesa Says:

    Reanna,
    I dont think you are right in equating ISCONs, mahesh Yogis and Ravishankars with the evangelical churches. The pope, himself an ex nazi , had the metlle to proclaim on Indian soil their motto of harvesting souls.

    Evangelical gurus: Benny Hinn, Paul Dinakaran
    ‘Converts': poor,tribal illterate folks
    Appeal:
    Money, berating and abusing Hindu gods and local culture apart from magic and sorcery

    Hindu Gurus: Mahesh Yogi, Ravishankar, Prabhupada
    ‘Converts’ : Westerners , most of them well off, compulsarily educated and in search of spiritual solace
    Appeal : Yoga , Pranayama, Spirituality

  92. Avva Madesa Says:

    Reanna,
    more proof of how evangelicals are abusing hindus and their beliefs.

    http://www.dailypioneer.com/columnist1.asp?main_variable=Columnist&file_name=KANCHAN6.txt&writer=KANCHAN&validit=yes

    http://www.dailypioneer.com/columnist1.asp?main_variable=Columnist&file_name=KANCHAN195%2Etxt&writer=KANCHAN&validit=yes

  93. Vinay Says:

    Few people wanted proof, so visit this site for proof:

    http://greathindu.com/2008/09/proof-of-christian-complicity-in-abusing-hindu-gods-in-mangalore/

  94. Hamsa Says:

    @Tathagat,
    Dont care about anon etc. Whatever may be today’s bengal’s condition – the Kannada poets and spiritual seekers have thankfully acknowledged the Bengal Renaissance. Prof. A R Krishanshastry, one of the earliest writers of modern day kannada has infact done trnaslation of Bankimchandra’s works and even biography of Naga Mahashay!!

  95. myshanks Says:

    Dear URA the savior of Kannada,

    Can you just talk to the Bishop and get the language of the mass in churches changed to Kannada ONLY please.

  96. Vinay Says:

    There are too many Vinay’s around these days. The Vinay with an uppercase ‘V’ was copyrighted by me, and now someone else has hijacked the name :-(

  97. Reanna Pereira Says:

    Dear Avva Madesa,

    This whole week has been a roller coaster ride or should I say a collision of emotions for my family and I. From shock to anger to hate to finally asking myself “Why is there so much anger growing in me?”.

    I’m not a person who can hate someone, let alone hate a whole community. I do not want to be a part of spreading hate and anger as what is happening right now. Hope you and everyone over here find an answer to all your heated questions.

    I have found mine. When my own friend (who is a Hindu) and I could not discuss this issue rationally. We realised that religion is a personal belief, its a faith that we have in our God. And whoever may be converted (whether forceful or by choice) in the end, in times of crisis we always cry out to our God, in whom we believe in. So if you believe that people were forcefully converted, do not fear they will definitely come back to Hinduism or any other religion.

    I’m sure the reason for my life is not to spread anger and hate. So I wish all of you the best to find your answers. I pray that it does not lead to destruction or injury to another human being, physically or emotionally.

    Thank you and all the best!

  98. kkr Says:

    >>> Tathagata Mukherji

    I thought there is no Bajrangis in ‘Commie Land’. welcome home.

  99. Shravan Says:

    The violent acts of Bajarang Dal is definately condemnable.
    Even the PM called it a “national disgrace”
    Its good that someone respectable from Karnataka has spoken out against the incident.
    I don’t know why BSY should deny a judicial probe on the incident. It shows that the sangh parivar believes in their own laws and do not hav faith in our legal system.

  100. Vishal Says:

    Reanna,

    I get this feeling that you are carefully evading the main point of contention here – the fact that Abrahamic religions actively denigrate other religions and proselytize their own, driven by their compulsive mandate to increase their numbers. How do you explain the presence of derogatory literature about Hindu Gods, allegedly distributed by the New Life Church, during these riots?

    The problem is that reasonably secular Christians like you dont accept the fact that there may be fringe Christian groups which actively does these things that could invite trouble and jeopardizes the community as a whole. I am not condoning the violence in this case but pointing out that such things can trigger widespread backlash especially in the Indian society.

  101. Ananda Gudi Says:

    Thanks to URA for raisisng his voice.

    My questions are

    a) If Bajrangis feel that conversion is happenning, can’t they protest peacefully? Do they have to resort to goondagiri?

    b) What was the role of police and DC in these incidents? Why haven’t they arrested Mr. Mahendrakumar, Convener of bajrang dal when he proudly pronounce and justifies goondagiri on TV 9?

    c) Why can’t Bajrangis focus their energy in helping improve casteism and untouchability within hinduism?

    We as a society can not support forced conversions and at the same time has to raise our voice against this kind of terror tactics by Bajrang Dal.

  102. vandemataram Says:

    Reanna Pereira,

    If you feel one week you are on a roller coaster ride, i can tell you how much hindus would have been suffered from past so many years?

    You say that no one is forcibly converting.. OK, if so goto rural places of Andhra , and i can tel you, 6 years back there was no sign of a cross in mantralaya now you can see 3 churches in main road,, So what does it indicates? wont a hindu get angry that ppl of his holy place are converted?
    For hindus, Religion, nation are all as respectable as mothers, So obviously they retaliate if some one try to disrupt good name of hinduism and hindu gods.

    some one was telling people that he will cure every one’s disease , but he died of multiple organ failures.. why he couldnt get himself prayed and saved? So how many people got cured from benny hinn’s prayer? There are millions of people struggling from health problems in all parts of the world. Why cant benny hinn organise such a mass program in pakistan or afganistan ? or somalia? why he chose india and that too in a airforce ground?

    For every one their own relgion is great and respectable. But unfortunate thing is, people are lured and fooled for money and better status in life.

    If you talk about equality, Why you have different groups among yourself? why you have different language based churches? why there are clashes among themselves?

    If Christians are peace lovers then who attacked iraq? who attacked afganisthan and destroyed them?

    yes as per suggestion “Hope you and everyone over here find an answer to all your heated questions.” yes we have answer, We should stop people of other religion from conversions. We must get a strict law in pl ace to ban conversion. Then you can see who fill fight against whom

  103. cbami Says:

    THere is a perception among Christians that they are peace loving and its Hindus who resort to violence. That is not correct. After the initial attacks, it was Christians who threw stones, burnt buses etc. In Orissa, the 9 people arrested in connection with the brutal murder of an 85 yr old swami when meditating were all christians. And look at NOrth east. Its Christians against each other and priests are not spared either.

    If you can justify the Christians protests in Mangalore and their violence as spontaneous, so can you justify HIndu violence. There are wolves everywhere and nobody is innocent.

  104. Vikas Says:

    @swamy
    Here are some pages of Satyadarshini:

    http://picasaweb.google.com/ramashray/Satyadarshini#

    I dont know how many copies were distributed, whtas the ‘real real’ cause, issue of freedom of expression etc.

  105. Ashwini Says:

    @ Anand Gudi

    Thanks for some saner voice on this forum.

  106. AK Says:

    What an interesting turn of events!! Reanna Pereira, when confronted with rational arguments from an educated public who clearly articulated their sentiments and refused to be guilted into accepting conversion , decided NOT to see reason and slunk away hiding behind a spurious veil of magnanimity. Isn’t this exactly the reason why those clever missionaries target mostly the illiterate populace?

    Avva Madesa, your post above explaining the difference between the appeal of Hinduism and Christianity was a killer argument.

    Lastly, Reanna, it is sad that you couldn’t rationally discuss this issue with your Hindu friend. Would it be safe to assume it’s because he/she offered irrefutable logic and you stuck to your guns?

    Btw, We have a mallu Christian in our gang and he’s the most open-minded bloke I’ve ever come across. There’s nothing we can’t discuss with him… we even trade accusations without animosity and never have to worry about hurting any “sentiments”. I’m sure many posters here have such friends?

  107. Tarlemaga Says:

    Reanna Pereira,

    Christian Nation’s have waged war against IRAQ,VIETNAM,ARGENTINA,IRAN and NORTH KOREA.

    The patience of Hindus was put to test in the Mangalore specific case. The minute there is something like the Davinci Code there is uproar for ban amongst the Christians.

    In India MF Hussain and New Life hold blasphemy against Hindus as the right to freedom of expression.

    Supreme Court in this Country has sided with MF Hussain and against Ram Setu.

    Now the Hindu patience is running out with the kind of judges in place. Hindus are resorting to violence because they find that they are cornered by the Pseudo Secular system.

    Haj Pilgrim allowance is given. Tax payers money is being used to apease a particular community while the rest are ignored.

    Hindu Religious Institutions such as Tirupathi,Sabarimala and Guruvayur are under Govt Control.

    The Christian Institutions report directly to Pope and have NGO’s as garb.

    There are over 50 NGO’s on Hennur Road in Bengaluru.

    Money of course is not coming from thin air for conversion. It is a planned effort to impact the demographic pattern.

    We cannot have double standards here.

  108. Smitha Says:

    Mr Anathmurthy,

    This statement was very much expected from you, I am sure the next one will be from Mr Girish Karnad! After all there is much more common to you both than just your Gnanapeethas!

    Being artists and intelligent people, you should not be making irresponsible and absolutely biased statements like “most of gentle nurses are christians”. Such statements sounds more like Lalu and mulayam than a Gnanapeetha awardee; Please remember with great honors comes great responsibility and you have been honored with the nations highest award for literature, with that comes a big responsibility. Even school kids know that being a ‘gentle nurse’ has got nothing to do with Christianity. How can an ‘intelligent’ artist say this?

    Also, have you never heard of Dalit Christians? Its a pity. Did not K.R.Narayana refused to sign the Dalit Christian bill? What was all that about? Have you not read ‘God of Small Things’? A Dalit remains a Dalit after conversion, just that from just a Dalit he/she becomes a Dalit Christian. They have seperate churches, separate cemetery, who knows may be a separate god and communion.

    Chiristianity is not doing any good to our caste ridden society. For them it is all about ‘Harvesting souls’ nothing more. Each new addition is welcome. Where else but in India can they Harvest more souls, Muslims will kill them if they speak of conversions, the only one left is the ‘open’ minded Hindus. Also they get a strong support from the ruling political class as well as the intelligensia here in India. What a brilliant strategy.
    Speaking of Pluralistic society, have you ever thought there can be pluralism if world is conquered by Abrahamic religions? No. We represent the greatest tradition of all times – we are argumentative and pluralistic and unlike Abrahamic traditions we say your god is as good as ours. But then what is it leading to? Violence?Conversions for material gain?

    We are pagan, Thank god we are and i would remain one till the end of my life.

    The need of the hour is a change of mindset that is required. Most importantly it is a neutral voice reflecting the concerns of our society not some pseudo secularist who is attempting brownie points by taking up silly causes and making irresponsible statements

  109. chum chum Says:

    Dharma— you want some place in North or South India for the Hindu’s?

  110. Anonymous Guy Says:

    Tathagatha Mukherji,

    You said:
    Anon Guy: I have no cure for your suffering what Sudhir Kakkar termed as “Andulous Syndrome”.

    Did you mean Andalus Syndrome? Or is that how a Bong spammer like you misspells it?

    And I have no cure for your suffering from “spam in blogs”: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spam_in_blogs

  111. Tathagata Mukherji Says:

    Ananda Gudi>> b) What was the role of police and DC in these incidents? Why haven’t they arrested Mr. Mahendrakumar, Convener of bajrang dal when he proudly pronounce and justifies goondagiri on TV 9?

    It reminds me those days of Advani’s Pakistan Visit and controversy created by media on ‘secular certificate’ to Jinnah.

    Mikes were put under Togadia’s nose and frenzied media asked him: what do you say Advani’s ‘secular certificate’ to Jinnah?

    Its natural, Togadia will go ballastic. However real question is, did Advani really give Jinnah secular certificate?

    I am no supporter of Bajrang Dal. But when dust settles, lets watch that video once again, and we will see what was the actual question and what was the answer.

    Media is playing dangerous game. Its creating news instead of reporting it.

  112. kkr Says:

    We condemn the forced convertions and distribution of sensitive materials. Let the goverment post a Judicial enquiry into this matters.

    Same way a Judicial enquiry to the Riots is also required..

    What do our Paranoid right wing commentators have to say in this regard..

    What ever The situation, the law can’t be taken in to hands (even by Bajrangis)

    Now I forsee some one reply- Jihadis has done this , Evalangical xtians had done that..

    We are discussing about Mangalore riots and Sangh Parivars role in that. We’ll talk about that now.

  113. kkr Says:

    I thought we have freedom to choose the religion as per the constiution..

    When did that get amended ???

    Moral of the story..

    Dalits,Tribes and Back ward castes are not considered humans as long as they carry hindu names. Nobody cares about their plights. They are not welcome to our homes, If some one try to give them some reservation in education or jobs, suddently there is a flood of hate mails and sms’s ( by the same guys who post comments on this blog on behalf of these poor souls).Once they convert from hinduism, suddently ‘Saamis’ from Kanyakumari to Himalay come to ‘rescue’ them. And now they are worried about these convert xtians are not allowed in to churches.. ha ha

    First you guys let them enter the society..

    is this called hypocracy…??? please correct me..

  114. Tathagata Mukherji Says:

    >>Christian Nation’s have waged war against IRAQ,VIETNAM,ARGENTINA,IRAN and NORTH KOREA.

    I think, history will agree that Xtianity has destroyed indigeneous culture, caused MORE death than even virulent version of Islam.

    Europe never heard of women’s burning, witch burning, scientists burning prior to arrival of Xtianity. It took many centuries – starting from 4th to 11th in Europe to destroy native Culture. We all know the history of Americas, southern half of Africa, Australia, SE Asia with arrival of whitemen.

    Or our very own Goa inquisition, NORTH EAST WHERE MORE PEOPLE DIED THAN EVEN IN KASHMIR.

    Another aspect I feel is: systemetic villification of non-Xtian faiths since antiquity.

    Rise of Hindu Revivalism in India in 19th century- series of aggressive Hindu leaders — Swami Dayanand to Bankim Chattopadhyay to Vivekanand to Tilak to Aurobindo…was because of this long abuse of Hinduism.

    I was reading an article on REVIVAL OF HINDUSM IN SRI LANKA in late 19th century- It was also led by a Hindu leader who studied in a Missionary school and saw how Hinduism was abused.

  115. anand Says:

    Hypocracy is when Christians make public speeches that all are equal in their religion but demand QUOTAS for DALIT CHRISTIANS.Why the prefix ??

    Hypocracy is exposed when the cheats and missionaries make blanatant false promises that on Conversion all diseases would be solved .Then why run the hospitals , buddy.

    Hypocracy is when these missionaries dont look into hunger and poverty in their own countries but come to India.

    It is Hypocracy when everyone in their religion make PUBLIC statements that NO INDUCEMENTS are offered to CONVERT.

    It is indeed HYPOCRACY when only Hindus are targeted.Why not try the Muslims ??? Answer is simple they will be lynched.

  116. AK Says:

    kkr

    Okay you’re corrected: It’s hypocrisy :-)

    And having to ‘choose’ a religion when it’s shoved down your throat by hate-mongering missionaries is not freedom of religion.

    And of course the dalits are free to live and enter whichever society they prefer… and I bet no one here would deny that we need work collectively towards their upbringing. So what’s with the “you guys” nonsense? You’re also one of us too and if you’re questioning what each of us has done individually to uplift the downtrodden in the society, let me put the same question to you. What have you done? Please lead by example.

  117. tarlesubba Says:

    the basic problem with that

    the issue is not forced conversion but these types of material and more importantly the attitude that leads to such material.

    see from new life’s perspective it is a freedom of speech issue.

    this didnot start recently, it has always been going on: i was in 8th standard when encountered one of these ‘truth’ pamphelets. taayi kali was the target of that pamphlet. then on, i have seen pamphlets on other sundry hindu gods, not to mention directed shout outs about false gods, idol worshipping, etc etc as currently as two weeks ago,

    and all the while the government has made no attempt to address this issue. and since it did not in the past and is unlikely intervene in near future people take matters into their own hands.

    the other less ‘violent’ option would be respond in kind: reduce and ridicule the gods of non-hindu faiths and their symbols. but see, that is a non-starter with majority hindus. majority of hindus can and do respect(at the most cynical they dont care) that different people have different gods even if they will not marry their daughters and sons into such families.

    point is it is not illegal to covet my neighbour’s spouse nor is it illegal to say bad things to the neighbour’s children about their parents. but social ettiquete and existential common sense dictates that we lay our hands off of doing such things. that is how a neighbourhood is built by good fences.

  118. tarlesubba Says:

    sir,
    it is incredibly facetious of you to guilt hindus into shame about caste. hindus have submitted to the will of the state on the issue. with one pen stroke, untoucability was banned and nobody protested. even on the reservation issue upper caste students protest against their own disenfrechisement and reducing of their own oppurtunities, not for giving rights to dalits. education need not be a zero sum game. if the state is interested in getting more people educated it should increase its share of GDP investment in education. every single case of known and public case of dalit discrimination, the state has sided with dalits and not one community that has lost the legal battle has turned against the state.

    discrimination exists. caste is a social problem and by and large hindus have submitted to the will of the state. can you say that about others? whenever conversion is banned, local pastors use international forums to denigrate the indian state.

    well even according to eminent historians, india has never had a hindu emperor, right and non-hindu influence in all things has been much more worthy than hindu influence right? buddists, the muslim rulers and british have always ruled us no? why didn’t they do anything about the caste? after all sundry other hindu attitudes the british and the mughals corrected no sir? why not caste? it took independent india to ban caste. why did not the british do it? ha? glories of building the taj mahal, building the rail nework beku, but ignominy of presiding over caste – you dont want-a? since these were all guys ith uber-egalitarian principles, why did it take an independent India to finally ban untoucability?

  119. tarlesubba Says:

    caste and all is a hog wash. in philippines, in east timor, in north america and in most of europe there was no caste, in australia there was no caste infact in south america, the spanish introduced caste. in all these places the church is doing 90-95% business. india, even according to ‘official’ census non-abrahamic religion is doing a 80% business.

    basic issue is puNya credits that in abrahamic religions can only be collected by demolishing all other systems.

    hindu gods are not opposed to sharing the altar with jesus. but if jesus wants the altar for himself, and want that to be the universal norm, atleast in india, it is going to be a problem.

    i used to attend mass at a church for close to an year. i never felt violated, neither did my friend who was only eager for me attend. but he would rather wait on the road rather than attend a session aarathi at the local raayar matha.

  120. tarlesubba Says:

    sir,
    can you list the caste of all the ‘saamis’ from ‘himalay’ and ‘kanyakumari’?
    can you list the caste the caste of all the kings who ruled india from ‘himalay’ and ‘kanyakumari’ since the dawn of civilization?

  121. tarlesubba Says:

    smitha. count me in as another ‘pagan’ for life. i would rather die being counted amongst the obscurantist pagans who worship the banni mara on this earth and in this life than earn punya credits to heaven in some other world based credit that can only be counted amongst the believers of exclusive hogwash.

  122. Madhav Says:

    Christians believe in Equality.Fine.Will an Incan,Mayan,Aborigine vouch for the fact.In fact, Equality was a Renaissance ideal and not some thing for which the Church can claim legitimate credit.After all, is there a need to burn witches and crush testicles if you believed in Equality?The entire bloody record of the Inquisition needs to be examined before you absolve the Church for conversions.Why does the Pope come to India and plead for “harvesting a million souls”?Is’nt it an insult to the millions of whom he is a guest?Throughout history,how many Shudras were slaughtered by the Brahmins? How many witches burnt? How many civilisations destroyed by the Hindus? India was a rich society till these very representatives of Christ came to us as traders.Four hundred years hence, the Hindu civilisation still exists and could not be wiped out by introducing Malaria and slaughter.All that was taken away was our centuries old prosperity.

    Hindus need to strategise properly.You cannot have lambs fighting wolves.I am not supporting violence though the occasional riots do happen.After all, even our Gods had weapons.Somewhere down the ages the Hindus seemed to have forgotten this.Mangalore is a realisation of this
    reality.At the same time, I feel that the Brahmins need to stop working for their own enrichment.

    As for Mr. URA, he is hunting for fresh loaves of some sinecure since the high inflation under the present dispensation has made his pensions worthless.Is it not a fact that Communism,that dead ideology has been relegated to the dustbins of history? Marx never understood religion.He was content getting unconscious in the London libraries poring through books.Since when was an Eurocentric world view applicable to a society the Europeans had come to understand only 150 years since.

  123. ERR Says:

    113 Comments in few hours! wonderful.There is a war out there right here! It’s not surprising all through the history religion has killed more people than all the wars put together. And yet, all religions are supposed to preach -love thy neighbour, maintain peace and treat humanity as equal. What a paradox! No matter which religion you belong to -It’s finally ‘tu tu main main ‘. That begs this question. Such being the scenario thro’ ages, is religion necessary? At all? What good has it served? will it serve? Apart from killing ,looting, bombing, burning & destroying places of ‘worship’ and ‘ethinic cleansing’ ?- all in the name of God.

  124. Anonymous Guy Says:

    kkr,

    I have the same questions as you do.

    Also from what I have personally seen, the dalits who convert to Christianity do better than their unfortunate brethren who do not. And this is especially evident at the second and third generations. It is almost like seeing a group of people moving up the socio-economic order as a result of their decision to convert.

    Learning English, gaining knowledge which wasn’t available for them, admission to schools where they are discriminated less, getting a good shot at jobs which were previously out of their reach due to illiteracy (or semi-literacy), getting monetary support when needed, being organized as a group which knows its rights and duties etc.

    While the first generation of converts may have to work very hard – and it depends on the individuals themselves to some extent – on an average later generations are definitely better off in all ways. And they are also free of the invidious caste system to a greater extent than they were before (though some things dont change much in India – as others have rightly pointed out). The caste system stays to some extent since it is a pervasive feature of Indian society immaterial of religion etc.

    So now if you are a dalit who sees someone who converted better off than you. Especially if you see his children slowly being free of some of the bonds which hold you to an inhumane existence, what would you do?

    The missionaries and converters dont have to do much. If they believe they are righteous and are working to right a wrong (the wrong here being mistreatment of dalits), they have their work cut out. The dalits will convert, and the more bajrang dal types inflict violence on the converters and converted, the more it will seem that they are just continuing their policy of keeping the dalits down by hook or by crook.

    And anyway how will you eventually ‘ban’ dalits from bettering themselves if the existing system could not do much for all the long years? Ban crossing the seven seas? Ban TV for dalits? Ban dalits from being taught to read and write? Ban them from (horror of horror!) ideas and a better livelihood?

    Or just ban them from deciding what they want to do with their lives and just get back to the good old caste system?

    However in the long run, as probably some of the people controlling the Bajrang Dal, RSS etc. may be worrying, if a large section of our population is converted to christianity or Islam, and they can be controlled by a small group sitting somewhere else in the world, what will be left of us as a nation? We will just be second rate citizens with no sense of nation, no unity, taking orders from ‘superiors’ elsewhere. Colonialism in another name. Where will this path lead?

    The solutions is not violence and banning etc. It is to vow to improve ourselves as a society and make fundamental changes to our systems. As some other posts have mentioned, we could start off with the constitution. Re-write it in a way to make Indians as a group more efficient, more systematic, more directing their energies to improving our country and its institutions as a whole as opposed to just ourselves, our families or our caste. Have a system of government where the wise rule, not the ones who can garner the most votes from an illiterate public. etc. Hell we need a revolution if things are to get better for us as a country.

    But if they are to get anywhere in this fight, the RSS leadership has to take a long hard look at the question of casteism and discrimination and formulate effective drastic measures to abolish it once and for all. It is the weakness of Hinduism, it may have been a great system for centuries when we were cut off from other nations, but it will only be a weakness in this day and age. But coming to terms with this and formulating a strategy for it is probably more difficult than just using violence to prevent conversions.

    The other way is to just let things get worse, until everything breaks down and things can only get better. In which case the strategy of violence towards everyone who does not agree with out thoughts is a good thing. Anyway this seems to be the way of the followers of Islam and evangelical Christians.

    If that is the case, the supporters of Bajrang Dal etc. dont need to argue or show any logic. They can just adopt the argument of other religious nuts and say – ‘we are right because our lord says so and it is written in our holy book’. And roundly abuse anyone who argues as weak/apostate/intellectual/homosexual etc.

    Looks like that is the way we are headed.

  125. Not A Witty Nick Says:

    What’s this led to?

    Supposedly many Hindu exmatriates are now pumping money into massive reconversion programmes.

    Like Xians’ primary source, I bet that it is also Fossil Fuel(or Theory Oil for “believers”) money!

    Now this issue is going to be magnified. Enjoy! :(

  126. Truth From Facts Says:

    Indian Church Fights Conversion as Mizos Embrace Judaism

    Syed Zarir Hussain | Aizawl

    Alarmed at the prospect of hordes of Mizos embracing Judaism and deserting the Church for Jerusalem, Christian groups are believed to have lodged their protest with the Union Home Ministry and blocked the migration of Israel’s lost tribe to the promised land.

    Hundreds of newly-converted tribal Jews in Mizoram feel “devastated” after New Delhi refused them permission to migrate to Israel. The denial, the Jewish community leaders say, follows protests by Christian groups.

    “We are shattered with the Indian Government rejecting our applications for migrating to Israel,” Jeremia Hnamte, administrator of the Mizoram chapter of the Shavei Israel Organisation (SIO), said.

    http://tootiefairy.sulekha.com/blog/post/2008/07/indian-church-fights-conversion-as-mizos-embrace-judaism.htm

  127. hari Says:

    If I was born in this times, I would probably have no faith in religion. Every one of them is busy ensuring their survival.. that’s the only aim. Defeats the basic purpose.

  128. Hiker Says:

    tarlesubba,

    chennagi heLiddira.

    “all the while the government has made no attempt to address this issue”

    Yes. Govt should have intervened long back. But then don’t you think all the intellectuals would have condemned the govt and labeled it ‘communal’? So we have a situation here..govt can’t intervene and people can’t take the matters into their hands… what is the way out?

  129. Geetha Thaneswaran Says:

    Thanks to VHP/Bajrangi monkeys. They are adding more terrorists to a country already reeling under terrorist attacks. Imagine the lethal weapons that can flow into this country if foreign governments wish to hijack the economy, taking advantage of highly educated, frustrated/motivated/vengeful youth providing them with unlimited finance/subversive training .Do we desire Karnataka to be another Nagaland. I do not condone conversion but certainly denounce violence to combat it.

    Violence fuels ‘Christian jihad’ fears

    NEW DELHI; The anti-Christian violence ongoing in several states allegedly by the Bajrang Dal and other affiliates of the Sangh Pariwar may spur a Christian jihadi group, fear church leaders, Congressmen from Karnataka, the CPI(M) and even union finance minister P Chidambaram, even as several secular-nationalist Muslim groups in Karnataka have decided to support the Christians.

    Decrying the violence against the Christian community, Karnataka Imams Council (KIC) has decided to hold a dharna in Bangalore to condemn the attacks on churches. Mufti Ihathmul Haq, a council official, in a statement said: “The attacks on prayer halls and places of worship in three districts in Karnataka posed a threat to the country’s unity and strength.” The statement said the council’s dharna in front of the Gandhi statue aims at expressing Muslims’ opposition to violence. The council also demanded action against the culprits.

    Sources said a few Congress leaders who visited Mangalore with church leaders in the wake of the violence got the feedback that Christian youth feel the BJP government in Karnataka is patronising the Bajrang Dal and the VHP and that they will not get justice. “They are becoming restive and may turn to militancy,” said a church official.

    Some Catholic youth are understood to have told visiting leaders that if Muslim youth could take up arms and retaliate, why not Christians? They said the time had come for Christians to obliterate the “meek, law-abiding, docile tag”.

    Fearing the “hate campaign” may open another terror front, the CPI(M) on Thursday said “the most dangerous message that is being sent out by the BJP-ruled states is the minorities cannot expect just and equal treatment as citizens. This creates the most fertile ground for terrorists of all hues.”

    Chidambaram warned of “new waves of terror” if the alienation of the minority communities was not addressed. “There is the challenge of alienation of the Muslim community and, more recently, of the Christian community…Out of hopelessness and despair of the Muslim community — and if not addressed firmly, the Christian
    tribal communities too — will rise new waves of terror,” he said at the Field Marshal KM Cariappa memorial lecture here on Wednesday.

    Catholic Bishops Conference of India spokesperson Father Babu Joseph, said “The church will never promote violence. It always advocated peaceful means for solving conflicts, but at the same time Christians like anybody else have the right to self-protection and if the government fails to provide security to their lives and property, Christians will also find ways to protect themselves like anybody else.”

    Sources said senior Congress leaders Oscar Fernandes and Margaret Alva, hailing from Karnataka, who visited the violence-hit Mangalore, apprised the Congress top brass and prime minister Manmohan Singh that if the “hate campaign” continued unchecked, the state could get polarised on religious-lines.

  130. Geetha Thaneswaran Says:

    Appreciate comments from Churumuri Bajrangis

    Violence fuels ‘Christian jihad’ fears

    NEW DELHI; The anti-Christian violence ongoing in several states allegedly by the Bajrang Dal and other affiliates of the Sangh Pariwar may spur a Christian jihadi group, fear church leaders, Congressmen from Karnataka, the CPI(M) and even union finance minister P Chidambaram, even as several secular-nationalist Muslim groups in Karnataka have decided to support the Christians.

    Decrying the violence against the Christian community, Karnataka Imams Council (KIC) has decided to hold a dharna in Bangalore to condemn the attacks on churches. Mufti Ihathmul Haq, a council official, in a statement said: “The attacks on prayer halls and places of worship in three districts in Karnataka posed a threat to the country’s unity and strength.” The statement said the council’s dharna in front of the Gandhi statue aims at expressing Muslims’ opposition to violence. The council also demanded action against the culprits.

    Sources said a few Congress leaders who visited Mangalore with church leaders in the wake of the violence got the feedback that Christian youth feel the BJP government in Karnataka is patronising the Bajrang Dal and the VHP and that they will not get justice. “They are becoming restive and may turn to militancy,” said a church official.

    Some Catholic youth are understood to have told visiting leaders that if Muslim youth could take up arms and retaliate, why not Christians? They said the time had come for Christians to obliterate the “meek, law-abiding, docile tag”.

    Fearing the “hate campaign” may open another terror front, the CPI(M) on Thursday said “the most dangerous message that is being sent out by the BJP-ruled states is the minorities cannot expect just and equal treatment as citizens. This creates the most fertile ground for terrorists of all hues.”

    Chidambaram warned of “new waves of terror” if the alienation of the minority communities was not addressed. “There is the challenge of alienation of the Muslim community and, more recently, of the Christian community…Out of hopelessness and despair of the Muslim community — and if not addressed firmly, the Christian
    tribal communities too — will rise new waves of terror,” he said at the Field Marshal KM Cariappa memorial lecture here on Wednesday.

    Catholic Bishops Conference of India spokesperson Father Babu Joseph, said “The church will never promote violence. It always advocated peaceful means for solving conflicts, but at the same time Christians like anybody else have the right to self-protection and if the government fails to provide security to their lives and property, Christians will also find ways to protect themselves like anybody else.”

    Sources said senior Congress leaders Oscar Fernandes and Margaret Alva, hailing from Karnataka, who visited the violence-hit Mangalore, apprised the Congress top brass and prime minister Manmohan Singh that if the “hate campaign” continued unchecked, the state could get polarised on religious-lines.

  131. Geetha Thaneswaran Says:

    Imagine Karnataka becoming another Nagaland with AK47s/RPGs/ Remote controlled explosives. When a highly educated/motivated youth with access to unlimited finance from foreign governments, revolts the results are going to be devastating. Bajrang monkeys are going to take us to 18th century. I am against conversion , However using force will not solve it

  132. Geetha Thaneswaran Says:

    I am a product of Christan convent school and therefore know that the clergy/church has very minimal influence on the christian youth, unlike Islamic institutes where educated/uneducated follow the words of Imams, good or bad.

    Om Shanti

  133. Pulikeshi the Last Says:

    I just now noticed something in Dr. Murthy’s anxious appeal. He says he feels “helpless.” I repeat the suggestion I made in my earlier post: He and his fellow empancipators should renounce all the honours and privileges they have persuaded successive goverments–Congress and BJP–to confer on them.

    They might also consider rushing to religious trouble spots and try to stand between the Hindu fundamentalists and their victims.

    Using their considerable mind power, let them also attempt to negate the need for conversions in the first place.

    Minor sidelight: Why does URA’s narrator in one of his novels, “Bharathipura,” I think, refers to lower caste people as “avu bandavu, “avu ninthavu?” Surely they are entitled to the same human pronouns as the rest of the characters?

  134. kkr Says:

    Well said Geethaji.

  135. Tathagata Mukherji Says:

    Geetha>>Violence fuels ‘Christian jihad’ fears

    India lost 100,000 people in NE, where Baptists funded from abroad is fighting Indian rule for last 60 years. Its MORE THAN KASHMIR. So, its already happening.

    Many Missionaries have been caught in Tripura, ruled by CPIM, with explosives. Many RSS leaders have been killed there too.

    I can vouch, CPIM passed a resolution in its last West Bengal State Conference where it candidly stated: a section of missionaries are working with ISI, anti-nationals in parts of Eastern India. Its a public record, go and figure it out.

    Time has come to stand up and call a spade a spade.

    Everybody is worried when few glasses break in a Church. BUT DOES ANYBODY (Congress, CPIM, types of UAR) REALLY CARE WHEN CHOICEST ABUSE ARE HURLED AGAINST HINDU GOD(S)? OR CONVERSION TAKES PLACE?

    How come Xtian pop grew to 180,000 in Kandhamal district WHEN THERE IS A LAW BANNING CONVERSION ? There is not a single conversion that followed official process. WHY?

    Congress, Media and “secular” intelligensia is fuelling Xtian victimhood- much the way it created Muslim Victimhood. ITS END RESULT WILL BE: MORE SOCIAL INTOLERANCE, MORE SOCIAL DIVISION.

  136. cbami Says:

    I as a Hindu have to admit. Know Christainity is wrong on so many levels. Dont have the spunk to come outside and say so. I think we have a basic right, human right if we will, to believe as we want to and in the way we want to as long as it falls in the overall category of “live and let live”. Hinduism more than any other falls in this category. But am I willing to come out and defend this freedom, out of my alias, onto MG Road with a placard – NO. There will be a huge pressure from Family and Freinds – why get involved ?

    Just wanted a quick poll. How many of you here are the same – know something needs to be done but dont have the courage to do it ?

    That I think is the key problem. When the educated, knowledgable guys stay indoors, the leadership falls into the hands of hooligans. And thats whats happening with the Bajrangi’s now

  137. Mysore Peshva Says:

    *ERR*

    Are you a fan of Christopher Hitchens (as I am) for his strident (and witty) argument against organized religion?

  138. Geetha Thaneswaran Says:

    @Tathagata Mukherji ,

    Whatever your reasons for your hardcore fundamentalist attitude, there is no need for spitting your venom in a karnataka blog. I guess you are living in United States and probably ill treated by whites, so you come here to alleviate your hatred. We, south indians do not need your commie advise.

  139. sathya Says:

    Pulikeshi the Last, URA “rushing to the troubled spots>..” What a wonderful proposal. It is not a situation where the CM of Karnataka started his paadayatra the same URA went there. Don”t expect such things. In Kannada there is a proverb “mola yebbisi malakke kootaru” and rightly he has done the same thing. Sitting in the capital and imagining many things about Mangalore and other places and just shedding tears – this is what these rationalists will do. Let them sing their songs and enjoy. People definitely know who is true to his words.

  140. Tarlemaga Says:

    Geeta,

    Karnataka cannot become Nagaland. As Nagaland is on the forefront of Christian terrorism. Do not ever compare Karnataka to Nagaland.

    In Nagaland gun toting Christians go to worship to Church with a AK47 tangling over their arm. Peace loving ehh….

    Pseudo Secular Govt has allowed Nagaland to become what it is on account of its vote bank agenda.

    You name the Minorities who have become Majority in their respective state. Kashmir and Nagaland are classic examples. Both are indulging in violence and literally made the Pandits move over to tents in Delhi.

    Social balance of the society must not be disturbed.

    It is hypocritical to give freedom of expression to castigate religious sentiments.

    MF Hussain and New life church have been having a free run.

    Espousing violence needs to be condemned.

    Equal laws for all Citizens regardless of religious affiliation is the need of the hour.

  141. Tathagata Mukherji Says:

    ERR>>Such being the scenario thro’ ages, is religion necessary? At all? What good has it served? will it serve?

    Sir, 100 million people perished at the hands of Communists who claim “religion as opium”, in short span of 100 years of their existance.

    Religion is not the problem- issue is TOTALITARIANISM in the name of religion/ideology. My God(theory) is only true stuff, all others are infidel/heathen/bourgeoisie. This has been the recipe of disaster.

    Atheism attracts death penalty in 55 odd Islamic countries. Prior to “scientific revolution” in Europe, atheists had major problem. While Charavaka lectured Rama on existance of God, and after world. It did not attract censor, or death penalty, and part of sacred the Ramayana.

    Neither (say) Issac Newton, pioneering figure of ‘scientic revolution’ was an atheist.

    Or for that matter, Darwin is resting in Westminster Abbey.

  142. Tathagata Mukherji Says:

    cbami>>That I think is the key problem. When the educated, knowledgable guys stay indoors, the leadership falls into the hands of hooligans. And thats whats happening with the Bajrangi’s now

    Yes, you have said 200% correct. A staple diet of Nehruvian ideology (which is denial of indigeneous culture) have been fed onto large section of middle class Hindus, and (still) many of us treat religion, standing for it as backward. That’s why we shy away standing for it. But its changing.

    Look at student politics of (say) JNU, and Aligarh Muslim Univ/Jamia Milia. SFI, Naxalites have been holding away in JNU for decades. But never got any foothold in AMU, Jamia Milia.

    Contrast could not have been more stark.

  143. Concerned Citizen Says:

    Anti-Christian Violence in India

    Vinay Lal

    It is reasonable to argue that the ascendancy of the Bharatiya Janata Party [hereafter BJP] to relative supremacy in Indian politics over the course of the last few years bears a direct relationship to the considerable, even dramatic,increase in violence against Christians and other minorities in India. In this short paper, I shall be furnishing a brief chronicle of the recent violence, besides foraying, again briefly, into such questions as the politics of conversion, the inaccuracy of claims regarding the alleged growth of the Christian population in India, and so on.

    Christians in Modern India: A Brief Political and Social Survey

    The history of Christianity in India goes back to a few decades after the birth of Christ, and there is evidence of Syrian Christians having established themselves in Kerala before 100 AD. India’s contacts with Christianity were renewed with the coming of the Portuguese in 1498: this was wholly inauspicious for the modern beginning of Christianity in India, since the conduct of the Portugese is without exaggeration described as barbaric. The Christian presence became more marked in some respects in the nineteenth century after British rule had been consolidated in India, though here again the pretense was often maintained that British rule had no association with Christianity. The sleight of hand is witnessed, for example, in James Mill’s fatal characterization of Indian history into three periods: Hindu; Muslim; and British.

    Some of the anti-Christian sentiments harbored by contemporary Hindu extremists dwell on the time when India was under British colonial rule, and when a substantial number of Christian missionaries openly voiced crude anti-Hindu sentiments. There is also the widespread belief among advocates of a more militant Hinduism that the colonial state encouraged conversions of lower-caste Hindus and otherwise promoted Christianity as a state religion, but on the whole there is little to substantiate this view, though doubtless Christians were looked upon more sympathetically than they had been in India under Muslim or Hindu rulers. It is a remarkable fact that in 200 years when India was under British rule, the Christian population of India never exceeded 3% of the population. Though the sentiments of Hindus were often flagrantly wounded by Christian missionaries, whose insensitivity and arrogance come across in countless number of texts, missionaries today are nonetheless more often remembered for performing social work in both metropolitan centers and more remote parts of the country, and for establishing schools where the bulk of the Indian elites still receive their schooling (see Bhavana Pankaj, “India’s Christians Protest Persecution”, Asian Week [7 January 1999]).

    The reality faced by Christians in modern India is that they are a small minority and not noticeably present in public life. They are dwarfed by the Hindus (nearly 78% of the population) and Muslims (around 14% of the population). The much smaller Parsi population has had a far more tangible and far-reaching impact on Indian civilization as well as what is called “nation-building”. The militant Hindus have spread a canard that the Christian population is increasing rapidly in India, and they have attempted to create the widespread impression that lower-caste Hindus are being forcibly converted in large numbers to Christianity. For instance, on the very day that Pope John Paul II arrived in India in late 1999, an advertisement in the form of an open letter addressed to the Pope was placed in Indian newspapers by the Citizens Committee of the Dharma Raksha Sammelan [Association for Protection of the Hindu Faith] in Chennai [Madras], which stated that “the Christian missionary activity in our nation is tearing apart families and communities in every strata of our society.” The letter states that “religious conversion, which seems to be synonymous with papal work, is violence pure and simple.” Purporting to speak on behalf of the nation, the letter concluded thus: “We Indians are deeply hurt by the spurt in the aggressive campaigning of the Church to convert the people of India by all available means” (see V. Sridhar, “A Numbers Game”, Frontline [Madras], Vol. 16, no. 25 (27 November 1999). In fact, there have been many other similar calls for an end to conversion (for example, M. V. Kamath, “Mission Impossible: Putting an End to Conversion Activity”, Times of India 13 October 1999), all implicitly based on one of more of the following assumptions, all patently false: (1) Christian missionary activity is illegal; (2) the Christian population is increasing dramatically; (3) and that conversions take place forcibly, or are otherwise inauthentic because the converts are seduced with offers of money or other forms of patronage.

    The evidence to the contrary is ample. The Constitution of India (1950) recognizes the right to freedom of religious worship, and the Constituent Assembly, which drafted the Indian Constitution, recognized further that people have the right to “propagate religion”. More importantly, the Census of India, which remains the most authoritative source for population statistics, clearly shows that the Christian community has stagnated and even registered a small decline in recent years. In an article published by Rajendra K. Chaddha in the magazine Organiser (31 October 1999), which is the mouthpiece for the BJP, the Hindu nationalist party that has been governing India since March 1998, it was claimed that the Christian population had grown from 2.53% of the total population of India in 1981 to 2.61% of the total population. However, the Census of India tells a different, and obviously more reliable, story. While the rate of growth of the Christian population was higher than that of the population as a whole between 1921 and 1971, the gap narrowed and was eventually reversed. Thus, between 1981 and 1991, Christians declined from 2.45% to 2.32% of the entire population. Moreover, while the population of India increased by 23.79% between 1981 and 1991, the Christian population grew by only 16.89% in the same period. . The Justice Wadhava Commission of Inquiry appointed by the Government of India came to the same conclusion, and it adds the interesting fact that between 1991 and 1998 the Hindu population increased by 2.5%, while the Christian population increased by .008% (see V. Sridhar’s article in Frontline [above]; Rajeev Dhavan, “Christians in India”, The Hindu (5 November 1999); and P. R. Ram, “To Be or Not To Be: The Conversion Debate”, available through South Asia Citizens Wire).

    In short, the most common rationale offered for violence against Christians in India, namely that the community is growing at an alarming rate through forced conversions, is absurd and has been decisively rejected by the print media and the world of scholarship. Even if the allegations made by Hindu extremists were true, they cannot be offered as an excuse for violence against another religious community. It is also the case, though the scholarly and popular literature on this question leaves much to be deisred, that recent converts to Christianity fare much worse than those Indian Christians who have been members of that faith for one or more generations. Recent converts are seen as traitors to Hinduism, as people who are against the tide of history and fail to recognize that India is — as the Hindu militants would like to think — a Hindu nation, and as people who are determined to weaken India in the face of opposition from hostile countries, including Pakistan. There may also be some resentment against the generally improved lifestyle of Christians: rates of literacy among both Christian men and women are higher than among Hindu men and women, and in the various indices that are used internationally to determine social and economic development, such as infant mortality rate, maternal mortality rate, and death rate, Christians score better.

    The Hindutva literature on conversion, finally, has entirely failed to enter into an engagement on the complex philosophical, political, and ethical questions surrounding conversion. Some of the Hindutva advocates, whose contempt for Gandhi is barely disguised, have brazenly furnished Gandhi’s views as justification for their opposition to conversion. Gandhi was not keen on conversion, partly because he held to the view that the convert had an inadquate understanding of his or her own faith; and Gandhi did not think that any one religion was superior to another. But absolutely nothing in Gandhi’s life, teachings, or writings can even remotely be summoned in support of the view that Gnadhi would have opposed a person’s right and desire to convert, and it is unthinkable that he would have countenanced the use of violence to prevent conversion. In this matter as in many others, the militant Hindus have shown themselves extraordinarily adept in abusing and manipulating Gandhi.

    Anti-Christian Violence in India, 1997-2000

    The media first actively began to report incidents of violence against Christians in 1997. As I have argued earlier, the increase of violence against Christians must be viewed in the context of the rise of Hindu nationalism and the ascendancy of the BJP to political power at the center of the nation. From 1964 to 1996, only 38 incidents of violence against Christians were registered in the country, though doubtless many incidents were not recorded at all; in 1997 alone, 24 incidents were noted by the United Christian Forum for Human Rights, and in 1998, the number had gone up to 90, though some Christian spokespersons have claimed that the true figure is several times higher. Hindu militants, one can safely conclude, see the rise of the BJP and other like-minded parties as an invitation to commit violence against Christians and other minorities with impunity.

    Though incidents of violence against Christians have occurred in nearly all parts of India, the violence has been largely confined to north, central, and western India, to the states of Gujarat, Maharashtra, Uttar Pradesh, Madhya Pradesh, and the capital area of New Delhi — not coincidentally, most of these areas have been under BJP rule in recent years. Some of the more gruesome incidents took place in eastern India, in the state of Orissa. Intimidation of Christians has extended to such acts as arson (the fire-bombing of Churches), the distribution of threatening literature, the forcible reconversion of recent converts back to Hinduism, the burning of Bibles; there have also been incidents, though much fewer in number, involving the rape of nuns and the murder of both Christian priests and missionaries. Cases of physical assault have also been recorded from various parts of the country: on 5 November 1999, 26 students — not all Christians — of St. Joseph’s Evening College, Bangalore, were attacked by 40 VHP activists for allegedly converting lower-caste Hindus (the Dalits) to Christianity (Walter Fernandes, “Caste as vested interest”, The Hindu [4 January 2000]). In Gujarat alone, where the BJP grip over power is very strong, 22 churches were burnt or destroyed, and another 16 damaged, in 1997. In the following year, 1998, according to the United Christian Forum for Human Rights, 5 nuns were raped, 9 killed, and 25 subjected to physical abuse (see Ravi Arvind Palat, “Violence against Christians in India”, New Zealand Herald [26 January 1999]; also V. Venkatesan, “A pattern of persecution”, Frontline 15, no. 26 [19 December 1998]). In mid-June 2000, four churches in different parts of India were bombed, while in the southern state of Andhra Pradesh, church graves were desecrated. In the same month, a church in Maharashtra was ransacked, and an evangelist working for the India Campus Crusade for Christ was found stabbed to death at his home (see Robert Marquand, “In India, a Pattern of Attacks on Christians”, Christian Science Monitor ([29 June 2000]).

    There have also been at least five widely known cases involving the murder of Christian clergymen, though perhaps as many as 20 priests and pastors may have been killed. Two might be mentioned by way of illustration. The entire country was shocked in January 1999 when an Australian Baptist missionary, Graham Staines, was murdered along with his two sons by being burnt alive inside a locked car. Staines had lived in India for the greater part of his life, and was working among lepers in Orissa, one of India’s most deprived regions (see the Human Rights Report and State Department Report, as cited below). His assailant, a Hindu militant by the name of Dara Singh, went around boasting about his deed, and even gave television interviews, while the police claimed that he could not be found. On 7 June 2000, the Catholic priest, George Kuzhikandam, was murdered in his sleep in a church in Mathura in Uttar Pradesh. The church cook, Vijay Ekka, who slept near the murdered clergyman and first reported the murder, was taken away by the police for interrogation, and himself died in police custody. Though the police claimed he had committed suicide, the autopsy indicated that he had been strangled. It is widely believed that the cook was silenced.

    Anti-Christian violence in India has been widely noted, and in April 1999 Human Rights Watch visited the Dangs district in southeastern Gujarat, where over a period of 10 days, from 25 December 1998 to 3 January 1999, there were numerous violent and clearly premeditated attacks on Christians and their institutions. Their 1999 report on the violence perpretrated against Christians furnishes a detailed record of what they saw and heard, and provides the testimony of those victimized (it can be accessed at http://www.hrw.org/reports/1999/indiachr/christians). A chronological record, as well as the historical background to the present spate of violence, can also be found in the U.S. State Department’s Annual Report on International Religious Freedom for 1999: India (released by the Bureau for Democracy, Human Rights, and Labor, Washington, DC, 9 September 1999). Shortly before dying in a car crash in Poland in the summer of 2000, Archbishop Alan de Lastic of New Delhi addressed a letter to Prime Minister Vajpayee, drawing his attention to the attacks upon Christians in all parts of the country, and stating that the thugs engaged in violent activity and attacks upon Christians “know no action will be taken [against them], and they can get away with any kind of violence” (Seema Mustafa, “Archbishop to PM: Your Silence Kills”, The Asian Age (14 May 2000). The Archbishop noted that the Christian community was threatened with its worst crisis since India acquired independence in 1947 (see Pamela Constable, ‘The Burden of the Cross in India”, Washington Post [3 July 2000]).

    The evidence for violence against Christians in India is consequently incontrovertible. There are numerous compilations of atrocities perpetrated upon Christians, and they suggest an alarming pattern of violence: the intimidation of priests; threats placed against Christian schools; false allegations against Christian priests; the destruction of Christian institutions, such as the Damian Leprosy Hospital complex run by Catholic nuns for 31 years; attacks upon churches; assault upon Christian nuns and pastors, such as in the city of Jhansi on 2 May 2000; the distribution of scurrilous literature; and murder of Christians.

  144. shyodha Says:

    =>Whatever your reasons for your hardcore fundamentalist attitude, there is no need for spitting your venom in a karnataka blog. I guess you are living in United States and probably ill treated by whites, so you come here to alleviate your hatred. We, south indians do not need your commie advise.<=

    You just showed you bigotry towards non-Kannadigas, ‘whites’ and United States while succintly informing us that you yourself may not be a Kannadiga (“south Indians”?); I have to commend you for pulling that off in three short but utterly silly sentences.

  145. Tarlemaga Says:

    Congress Politician Margaret Alva is espousing violence. She has stated that she will form Christian Suicide squads. Margaret Alva is a Jihadi who will need to be arrested immediately.

    We cannot have selective amnesia when it comes to violence.

  146. vijay Says:

    I just wanted to say that untouchablity has formed because of misunderstanding of caste system. This misunderstanding has only happened because of Muslim barbarians rule . They ill treated their slaves who where shatrias caught after war when a country is ruled more than 1300 years by foreign barbarians its whole culture would have been lost but since Indian culture is very strong enough to survive it survived

  147. Kadana Kuthuhala Says:

    Concerned Citizen…you need to form an organisation similar to al-qaeda and find one leader like bin laden to support your views and defend your religion. You are doing a great job pissing off millions..India needs people like you to completely disintegrate..

  148. Voice of India Says:

    Kadana Kuthuhala >>> well said..

  149. we should help Says:

    “Just wanted a quick poll. How many of you here are the same – know something needs to be done but don’t have the courage to do it ?”

    The BEST way to tackle conversion is to stay HINDU, not become the very person we dislike.

    If people CONVERT because they are poor and they offered money then we should HELP the poor Hindus such that they don’t CONVERT. Maybe we should start a FUND to help these poor Hindus.

    If they CONVERT because of CASTE DISCRIMINATION then we should STOP CASTE DISCRIMINATION. STOP sending hateful SMS about low CASTE people, STOP making fun of those people. The HINDU VOTE-BANK is split because of CASTE DISCRIMINATION.

    We should HELP our POOR HINDUS such that they STAY HINDU. As Hindus are we ready to HELP each other?

  150. Pulikeshi the Last Says:

    Kadana–

    Don’t you see the post by Shri Concerned Citizen is not the work of one man? It is a carefully crafted document in perfect journalese and unimpeachably chronological. Don’t forget the perfect documentation.

    I want TS to write like CS.

  151. Concerned Citizen Says:

    @Kadana Kuthuhala

    Quote ‘Concerned Citizen…you need to form an organisation similar to al-qaeda and find one leader like bin laden to support your views and defend your religion. You are doing a great job pissing off millions..India needs people like you to completely disintegrate..’

    FYI, I am neither a Muslim or a Christian. Before commenting, try to understand the article

  152. Anonymous Guy Says:

    The people ranting against conversions and christianity – are mostly the first in ranting about how stupid and dirty dalits are, how reservations for SC/STs are the worst thing that happened to our country etc.

    If the dalit converts to christianity, they are hated by these people, if they stay as hindus they are despised. In most parts of India they are just considered as as cheap labour, who should stay within their boundaries and not seek to do anything beyond.

    Lets see if the caste hindus can treat an SC/ST as an equal and help them recover from centuries of oppression from a devious system. If not – who are you to speak about what they should and should not do?

  153. Tathagata Mukherji Says:

    Geetha>>Whatever your reasons for your hardcore fundamentalist attitude

    You copy-pasted an article. I presented some verifiable facts that demolished what you pasted. Where do you see fundamentalism? Prove any point I wrote as wrong, if you can.

  154. Tathagata Mukherji Says:

    Anon Guy>>dirty dalits are, how reservations for SC/STs are the worst thing that happened to our country etc

    The Tribune, Chandigarh, a credible mainstream newspaper, wrote this:

    http://www.tribuneindia.com/2008/20080821/nation.htm#2

    “Seized documents from SIMI training camps have revealed that the organisation plans to split the Hindu society by turning OBCs, SCs and Tribes against the upper castes and vice-versa”

    I hope you understand this. And those radical Xtian groups too understand this.

  155. Anonymous Guy Says:

    The point is, SIMI and others dont need to work hard. As long as caste hindus keep up their superiority complex and dont want to help the downtrodden ones, there is nothing anyone else needs to do.

    Are you ready to welcome dalits as equals? Is your family ready to do that? Is your caste ready?

    Are the other posters here speaking against conversions ready to do that?

    Will the caste hindus emancipate the dalit/sc/st etc.? Not in law and writing but in reality in life?

    Or will you just brand any dalit or SC/ST who does not yield to your rule as secular?

    First see in what a disorder your own house is in. Then go throwing stones at others.

  156. Kadana Kuthuhala Says:

    Concerned Citizen…There’s nothing much to understand in your article and for that matter I don’t care what religion you belong to. Any hindu can come up with a list that cites persecution of hindus by christians and muslims. That list is going to be million times longer than yours.

    In the past Hinduism got split into jainism and Buddhism. If I am right these two rebelled against hindu doctrine. But this did not create any kind of upheaval or anxiety among hindus.

    You need to learn to spread the good word and not hatred.

    There’s persecution based on religion and also caste. Christians are not the only one suffering, Hindus have suffered more at the hands of christians.

    Christians may constitute a small percentage but still they are huge in number, bigger than many countries and their population is also growing!!

    Also if you are really that much a ‘Concerned Citizen’ you need to understand why hindus fear christianity and islam.

    Every hindu understands that dalits have been discriminated against and they know something needs to be done. Christianity or Islam is not the answer to this issue.

  157. Anonymous Guy Says:

    Is a dalit a hindu or not?

  158. Concerned Citizen Says:

    @ Kadana Kuthuhala

    your argument defies logic .viz

    1.small percentage but still they are huge in number, bigger than many countries……??????????

    2. you need to understand why hindus fear christianity and islam. ???????

    3.In the past Hinduism got split into jainism and Buddhism. If I am right these two rebelled against Hindu doctrine. But this did not create any kind of upheaval or anxiety among Hindus. ????

    Can you define the main principles of Hindu doctrine. Does Hinduism advocates killing innocents? Isn’t there a wide difference between Hinduism practiced by Brahmins and other castes.

  159. Doddi Buddi Says:

    This comment by Vakra-Chatri: “ದೇವೇಗೌಡ ಸರ್, ನಿಮ್ಮಂಥ ಸುಪುತ್ರನನ್ನು ಹಡೆದ ಕನ್ನಡಾಂಬೆ ನಿಜಕ್ಕೂ ಧನ್ಯಳು. ಇಡೀ ಕರ್ನಾಟಕದ ಜನತೆಯ ಮಾನ-ಮರ್ಯಾದೆಗಳನ್ನು ಜಾಗತಿಕ ಮಟ್ಟಕ್ಕೆ ಒಯ್ದ ಏಕೈಕ ಕನ್ನಡಿಗರು ತಾವು. ತಮ್ಮ ಅತ್ಯಮೂಲ್ಯ ಸೇವೆ ಹರದನಹಳ್ಳಿಯಿಂದ ಆರಂಭವಾಗಿ, ಹಾಸನ ಜಿಲ್ಲೆ, ಕರ್ನಾಟಕ ರಾಜ್ಯ ಕೊನೆಗೆ ಇಡೀ ಭಾರತ ದೇಶದ ಅಭಿವೃದ್ಧಿಗೆ ನೆರವಾಗಿದೆ. ನಿಮ್ಮ ಆಡಳಿತಾವಧಿಯಲ್ಲಿದ್ದ ಮತೀಯ ಸಾಮರಸ್ಯ, ಭಾಷಾ ಸೌಹಾರ್ದ, ದೀನ ದಲಿತರ ಕ್ಷೇಮಾಭಿವೃದ್ಧಿ ವಿಜಯನಗರದ ಅರಸರ ಕಾಲದಲ್ಲೂ ಇರಲಿಲ್ಲ. ಇನ್ನು ರೈತರ ಬಗ್ಗೆ ನಿಮ್ಮ ಕಾಳಜಿಯಂತೂ ಹೇಳುವ ಹಾಗೇ ಇಲ್ಲ. ಕರ್ನಾಟಕದ ಸಮಸ್ತ ರೈತ ಕುಟುಂಬದ ಇಂದಿನ ಸುಸ್ಥಿತಿಗೆ ನಿಮ್ಮ ಕಾಳಜಿಯೇ ಕಾರಣ. ನಿಮ್ಮ ಸುಪುತ್ರರಾದ ಬಾಲಕೃಷ್ಣ ಗೌಡರು ಆಡಳಿತವನ್ನು ಬಿಗಿಗೊಳಿಸಿ ರಾಜ್ಯ ಸರ್ಕಾರದ ಭೂಮಿಯನ್ನು ಕಾಪಾಡಿಕೊಂಡು ಬಂದವರು. ರೇವಣ್ಣನವರಂತೂ ಥೇಟ್ ಧರೆಗಿಳಿದ ಕಾಮಧೇನು. ಇನ್ನು ಕುಮಾರಸ್ವಾಮಿಯವರ ಆಡಳಿತಾವಧಿ ಕರ್ನಾಟಕ ಕಂಡ ಸುವರ್ಣ ಯುಗ. ಉಳಿದಂತೆ ವೈದ್ಯ ರಮೇಶ್ ಅವರ ಸೇವೆ ಜನಜನಿತ. ಅಳಿಯ ಮಂಜುನಾಥ ಅವರಿಗೆ ನೊಬೆಲ್ ಪ್ರಶಸ್ತಿ ಕೊಟ್ಟರೂ ಕಮ್ಮಿಯೇ. ಸೊಸೆ ಭವಾನಿ ಮತ್ತು ಅನಿತಾ ತಮ್ಮ ಟೀವಿ ಚಾನೆಲ್, ಪೆಟ್ರೋಲ್ ಬಂಕ್, ಸಿನಿಮಾ ನಿರ್ಮಾಣ, ರಿಯಲ್ ಎಸ್ಟೇಟ್ ವಹಿವಾಟುಗಳ ಮೂಲಕ ಕರ್ನಾಟಕಕ್ಕೆ ಸುಭಿಕ್ಷವನ್ನು ತಂದಿದ್ದಾರೆ. ಮೊಮ್ಮೊಗ ನಿಖಿಲ್ ಗೌಡ ಅವರಂಥ ಅಪ್ಪಟ ಯುವ ಪ್ರತಿಭೆಯ ಸೇವೆ ರಾಜ್ಯಕ್ಕಿನ್ನೂ ಲಭ್ಯವಾಗಬೇಕಿದೆ. ನಿಮ್ಮಂಥವರು ನೂರ್ಕಾಲ ಬಾಳಲಿ. ದೇಶ ಮತ್ತು ರಾಜ್ಯವನ್ನು ಮತ್ತಷ್ಟು ಉದ್ಧರಿಸಲಿ. “

  160. Tathagata Mukherji Says:

    Anon Guy: Who will decide emancipation of Dalits? Ambedkar, Gandhi, Vivekanand, Narayan Guru…………….or Missionaries and Islamists? Huh?

  161. Pulikeshi the Last Says:

    DB–

    I agree, but go one step further. The Haradanahalli clan should all be chiranjeevis. I hope I will live long enough to witness the miracles of Nikhil as akhanda chakravarthi of Bharathavarsha.

    BGS will one of these days make gold coins, no less than 24 carats, rain all over Karnataka and thus end the north south divide. What kind of umbrellas will the homeless use to protect themselves from that downpour of the riches? Will the goon angarakshakas of the Gowda parivar make them cart their shares to Padmanabhanagara on their broken backs?

  162. tarlesubba Says:

    “Isn’t there a wide difference between Hinduism practiced by Brahmins and other castes.”

    no.

  163. Kadana Kuthuhala Says:

    Is there a practice difference between Catholics and Mormons??? Hell yeah…

  164. Kadana Kuthuhala Says:

    CC…My agrument does not defy any logic..At best I was not clear or you did not understand. The christian population in india may be around 3-4 percent but still that’s big if you take the actual number which is bigger than the population of many countries. And ofcourse your population is also growing adding to the burden!!!

    People of india definitely fear any alien religion..or for that matter if hinduism spreads in a non-hindu land you know what would happen right?? Nobody can forget Crusades, KKK etc…

    Hindus have no problem with Jains or buddhists even though philosophically they differ from one another. That is because jains and buddhists are not wasting time brain washing the poor people.

    Also we need not indulge in religious discussion here. I’m only saying that your response to the article could be very irritating to many people and that will not help you or help anybody for that matter.

  165. Pulikeshi the last Says:

    Sorry, T.S. Brahmins practice brahminism. Other castes are bound by their own culturally sanctioned practices. In a crass way, anybody who is not considered untouchable becomes Hindu in this strange construction.

  166. Sir Vibhudi Aatmapudi Says:

    Kadhana avare, you are 100% right about that Concerned Citizen getting help from Bin Laden types. As for you Mr. Concerned Citizen, let me congratulate you on your name. it is indeed a cause for concern if you are publishing an entire epic in a comments section!

  167. naveen Says:

    “”Also if you are really that much a ‘Concerned Citizen’ you need to understand why hindus fear christianity and islam.””

    There we go again …one more netizen drunk on sangh propaganda… 1000 years of Islam and Christian rule didnt convert this country into a non-Hindu land and u still fear them??

  168. ಶಿಷ್ಯ Says:

    ಈ ಲದ್ದಿ ಜೀವಿಯ ಬ್ಲಾಗ್ ಬೇರೆ ಇದೆ… ಇವನ ಬಡಬಡಿಕೆಗಳನೆಲ್ಲ ನೋಡಬೇಕೆಂದರೆ ಇಲ್ಲಿಗೆ ಹೋಗಿ :

    http://www.rujuvathu.sampada.net/

  169. Sharad Vasista Says:

    Mr Ananthamurthy….where were you when these same people killed scores of people in Arunachal, Nagaland and other Northeastern states.
    Where were your comments then…..?

    It is all very well for you to comment on destruction of civilizations, but note the fact that a national newspaper “Times of India” and a state newspaper “Deccan Herald” have carried reports showing the dirty literature that was printed by those whom you are praising. what about that? Is it not shameful on their part that they print such things denigrating our religion? What sort of a man are you….you claim to protect those who spit on you….I do think you are a very obtuse foolish man….

  170. G.C.Shekhar Says:

    Wake-up Mr. Anatha Murthy! Look waht is happening your brothers and sisters in the name of PRAYER!! If yor are Hindu try stop happening these!!! Don’t enjoy distruction of Hindu way of Life. If Sangh Pariwar is not there, may be you would have sold all Hindus to Christians and Mslims…

    Christian militants Conversions with foreign fund

    America is funding Christian militants in India, like they had done to the Talibans. This is with the aim to create Christian nations in India by dismembering it.
    American President, got elect with the help of Christian fanatics who distributed funds from White House. Millions of dollars flow to Christian missionaries and Christian NGOs in India.
    The seriousness of this situation can be gauged from the fact that Christians run most of the 4,000 NGOs in India and most of them are involved in misinformation and conversion activities.

    Christian fundamentalism with its funding from the United States, is orchestrated with enormous guile, secrecy, corporate skill, and is gradually bent on disintegrating India. America is worse than the Saudi Arabian Islamic fundamentalist.
    America propagates fundamentalism himself, and is building it into the American machinery. Missionary activities are tied in with dubious social work. Christian bigotry and colossal conversion efforts are destroying our nation.Already the north-east is set for disintegration.

    Missionary D. Ron Watts, located at Hosur in Karnataka, along with his American wife Dorothy, is the most successful Christian conversion-terroris t in India. They are in India on business visa and with US funding have managed to convert 5,00,000 Hindus in the last five years. They enjoy the political support of the Congress party. They have brought in more than 200 foreigners on tourist visas for conversion activities in India.
    Using their organisations, known as Maranatha International and Global Mission, they carry out a virtual rape of India
    Pat Robertson, who calls Hindus ‘demonic’, operates the $66 million-a-year agency called ‘Operation Blessing’ in four Indian states. The medical conversion drive is a part of Operation Blessing and it recently treated
    more than 22,000 impoverished patients and simultaneously converted them to Christianity.
    They use hospitals like the Christian-run Apollo hospitals for this purpose.
    Christian Medical College, Vellore and Christian Medical College, udhiana,
    with over 350 institutional members like hospitals, health centres, community health programmes and two medical colleges are major centres
    for medical conversion.

    In 2000, nearly 3,000 people were converted to Christianity in exchange for clothes, food, medical care, and drilling of water wells by Operation Blessing.

    White House funds allChristian missionaries in India and for Christian NGOs, like CARE, World Vision, etc., conversion is their main job.

    Foreign missionaries are now increasing their efforts to convert Hindus as per the missionary organisation called Baptist World Alliance (BWA).
    Christian missionaries are behind the spread of terrorism in north-east India.
    The Southern Baptist Church in America financed and established in 1989 the Christian equivalent of the Taliban, the National Liberation Front of Tripura (NLFT) for creating an independent Christian nation of Tripura.

    The National Socialist Council of Nagaland (NSCN) is funded and armed by the World Council of Churches. Nagaland has 40 missionary groups
    and 18 major Christian militant groups.

    Churches buy guns, such as AK47s and AK57s from Myanmar or angladesh. NSCN has ties with the ISI of Pakistan and has its offices in New York, Geneva and the Hague which display boards with legends like
    ‘People’s Republic of Nagaland’. It has twice raised its demand for
    an independent nation in the United Nations. The NSCN has its own government which collects money from the local people. One-third of the salaries of the government servants are taken away as Nagaland tax before disbursement. Most of the banks in Nagaland have closed down
    because of the huge sums extracted by this outfit. The letterheads and stamps of this unofficial government read ‘Nagaland for Christ’.

    Last week about 30 communal Christian MPs from across India met NSCN over dinner at a hotel in New Delhi to offer their support for ‘Nagaland for Christ’ as per senior NSCN leader, V.S. Atem. Never in the history of India had the Christian MPs across India committed such a criminal act. They have come out now in the open because of the Italian Christian,
    Antonia Maino alias Sonia Gandhi who is ruling India with the help of her dummy, Manmohan Singh.
    In Nagaland drug addiction and the liquor supplied by priests have become a major problem. HIV/AIDS has risen dramatically amongst the Nagas after Christianity was forced upon them. Earlier CIA had placed an American spy as an English tutor for the Sikkim prince who conveniently fell in love her and married her later. This was to make Sikkim an independent nation. It was detected by India in time.

    With the support of Christian missionaries, terrorist organisations, like the NLFT and the NSCN are spreading terror in north-east India to convert the region to Christianity at gun-point. Gun-point conversions are going on in
    Assam, Arunachal Pradesh,Nagaland, Manipur, and Meghalaya.

    The NSCN has already succeeded in Nagaland in converting masses to Christianity and fighting for a greater Nagaland called Nagalim. NLFT is in the process of making a repeat of NSCN in Tripura.NLFT Attacks and Desecration of Temples NLFT terrorists in Tripura systematically carry out
    kidnappings, rape and murder of Hindus. The NLFT was banned in April 1997 but in 2000, this Christian terrorist group ordered the Hindus to stay away from celebrating Durga Puja or be killed. NLFT said it wanted all the Hindus in Tripura to become Christians. They also stated that salvation of Tripura lay only in Christianity and they would eliminate anyone who dared to come in the way of their plans to forcibly convert entire Tripura to Christianity. Nearly 20 ashrams, schools and orphanages of Hindus were closed down by these Christian terrorists.four Hindus named
    Shyamal Kanti Sen Gupta, Sudhamoy Dutta, Dinendranath Dey,
    Shubhankar Chakraborti, were kidnapped and beheaded, as though they were Muslim terrorists, by the Christian terrorist organisation, NLFT.

    John Thwaites, a Christian priest in Bengal, is reported to be linked to the terrorist activities of Kamtapuri and was arrested in 2001. The Baptist Church’s evangelical work in India involves buying weapons for organised terrorism. In 1991, the 2.3 per cent population of Christians in Nagaland, Mizoram and Meghalaya shot upto 90 per cent, 87 per cent and 70.3 respectively in these states.

    The Baptist Church of Mizoram has created 465 Baptist churches in izoram
    with the support of 436 foreign missionaries and with an annual budget of $875,000, they have converted 75,000 Hindus.

    In Assam, Christian missionaries propagate their intentions and aims through radio, literature or Church services to make Assam an ndependent Christian nation. In Tripura,for instance, there were no Christians at the time of Independence. The Maharaja of the state
    was a Hindu and there were innumerable temples all over the state.
    But since 1950, Christian missionaries with Nehru’s blessings penetrated deep into the thick forests of Tripura and started converting the Hindus.
    Now it has 90 per cent Christians. Millions of dollars are being poured in by USA in north-east for destabilising the region. Three priests were arrested in Tripura in April 2000 for aiding terrorists and possessing a large quantity of explosives, including 60 gelatine sticks, 5 kg of potassium,
    2 kg of sulphur and other elements for making bombs.

    In the year 2001, there were 826 terrorist attacks in Tripura in which 405 persons were killed and 481 cases of kidnappings by the rebels were reported. Christian terrorists like the All Tripura Tiger Force (ATTF), National Liberation Front of Tripura (NLFT) are funded by the Americans.
    These Christian terrorists have killed more than 10,000 Hindus in Tripura in the last 20 years.

    Hinduism is more a way of life than a method of worship.
    Dharmo Rakshati Rakshithaha
    If you protect Dharma, Dharma will in turn protect you.
    Hindus, If people slap you once, slap them twice!

  171. Pulikeshi the Last Says:

    If a Dharma cannot protect itself, nobody can. The Hindu fundamentalists are a greater danger to Hinduism than any other groups however well financed they are.

  172. shyodha Says:

    =>If a Dharma cannot protect itself…<=
    Dharma does not DESIRE any ‘protection'; but it sure does not protect those who do not make an attempt to protect it.

    The so called ‘Hindu fundamentalism’ is nothing but a feeble natural defense, if it is really there at all!

    False-secularism of Hindus is akin to auto-immune desease. Do you want the white blood cells of your body to stop producing anti-bodies when attacked by alien organisms?

  173. naveen Says:

    G.C.Shekhar.

    I just hope u wrote that stuff sitting in a house/office some where in India and not USA or Europe…

    Well if USA is doing so much damage to Hinduism then why r Hindus swearing allegiance to USA by the thousands daily???

  174. naveen Says:

    Still no answer to my question?

  175. naveen Says:

    Well if USA is doing so much damage to Hinduism then why r Hindus swearing allegiance to USA by the thousands daily???

    This one Q has shut the mouth of fascist Hindus …ROFL….i am loving it….

  176. Pulikeshi the last Says:

    Naveen–

    American dollars bills of whatever denomination are sturdier than our own soiled rupee notes of any denomination. Hindus living in the U. S. don’t have to daily spar with caste practices. Besides, Hinduism looks lovely from the far away U. S. Furthermore, The Patel Brothers, the largest Indian grocery chain in the United States, make Hindus feel at home in the U. S.

  177. Anonymous Guy Says:

    Naveen,

    Let me repeat your question:

    “If USA is doing so much damage to Hinduism then why r Hindus swearing allegiance to USA by the thousands daily?”

    Especially for the commentors who are sitting in Western countries and typing our their ‘protect upper caste hinduism against christianity/islam’ lines.

  178. Anonymous Guy Says:

    “1000 years of Islam and Christian rule didnt convert this country into a non-Hindu land and u still fear them??”

    I think the fear is more about dalits and lower castes finally realizing there is a choice for them outside of hinduism.

    Previously in spite of efforts of Ambedkar and few others, caste hindus had still managed to keep these ‘lower castes’ under their control by making any alternative absent from them. Basically ostracism.

    However now that more and more dalits are converting and living well, there is an palpable fear.

    Hence the violence against innocents.

    No talk yet of how the lot of dalits and others is going to be improved within the framework of hinduism (anyway it hasnt happened for 1000s of years – what will happen now).

  179. naveen Says:

    Pullikesi,

    yeah after swearing allegiance to Uncle Sam…

    Anon guy,

    “”No talk yet of how the lot of dalits and others is going to be improved within the framework of hinduism (anyway it hasnt happened for 1000s of years – what will happen now).””

    Thats why we have Behenji rising like anything to be the PM of this country soon..the writing is on the wall…

  180. G.C.Shekhar Says:

    New Life organization, which has been working in the district for achieving its objective of religious conversions and also the editor and publisher of the work, ‘Satyadarshini’, distributed by the organization should be prosecuted and the New Life Centres should be locked up. The said organization, which is responsible for the un savory incidents that rocked Mangalore, has been working to project Hindus in bad taste, by distributing the above-said book. A huge sums of money was flowing into the country for the purpose from abroad. The sources of funds being pumped into the system for the purpose of religious conversions are identified and recorded.
    The leaders of the Congress, JD(S) and human rights activists, who have been visiting the district, have not been considering the issue of conversions seriously. They have been showering sympathy on New Life. The fact that the same leaders remained silent when a Hindu leader was murdered in Orissa, has laid bare their double standards. The Congress party or the so-called converters does not have the moral right to demand home minister Acharya’s resignation or insist probe into investigation on the issue. The entire Hindu community should wake up to the challenge posed by conversions. Youth of the community should actively join hands in the nationalistic activities. All above statements and the facts have proof and no explanation will be given to culprits.
    Hinduism is more a way of life than a method of worship.
    Dharmo Rakshati Rakshithaha
    If you protect Dharma, Dharma will in turn protect you.
    Hindus, If people slap you once, slap them twice!

  181. Anonymous Guy Says:

    GC Shekar,

    You can safely paraphrase that to:

    Upper Caste Hindus, If people slap you once, slap them twice!

  182. Sameer Says:

    URA, Arundati roy etc are psychos. They dont have any work and want be in the limelight. Who cares for them except some TV channels? I switch over to other channels when such psychs are on my TV screen.

  183. GEETHA PAREPALLI Says:

    tatagatha mukherjee u r welcome in south india as a brpther hindu.thanks for enlightenig about swami vivekananda.we hindus fight on lines of our linguintic communities too thats whywhy are broken so easily. geeta thanneswaram does not knoe that bengali or kannadiga we are indians first.she sounds like raj thakeray.hindus have tounite.there have to be cultural exchanges amongst hindus of different states of india as well as abroad.we need to form organisations to fend our religio-cultural heritage.all the same our vmethods should be unique in its approach shunning violence and embracing satyagraha.christians should stop humming aboutr casteism as we know about the plight of blacks. blacks in the U.S.have become morally depraved due to christianity.hollywood star will smith vouches to this fact. New life which talks ill about hindu gods should consider the lack of moral values in christians world over,where does the words teen sex,doping,wife swapping,abortion rights,single parenting come from.go and clean the mess there is my advise to there.also attendance in churches have dropped radically.have they seen through ur sham.besides incase baba ratzinger didnt know,jesus fled to india and embraced christianity.mother teresa had serious doubts on the existence of god,iagree jesus was a massiah but christianity and other abrahamic religions lack the depth of the vedas,hence this jihad and crusades,their inner conflict makes them so violent and restless.whereas we hindus are basically at peace as we know the essence of life.

  184. Vbl Says:

    O My God !!!! so even a attack on Church was known to CM ? so may b attack on Taj was known to Sonia…easy to say ?now abot pub scene, BJP dint do it to attract Hindu votes , may b they will lose some votes ( Like myn ) this was to take away Student vote from BJP. I realy think that Youth in Mangalore was with BJP during the state elections. So some how this vote bank had to be broken. Sri Ram Sena was and is against BJP. that is what i am shure about, rest up to the so called educated people of India …Jai Hind

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