On the day the Union home minister Palaniappan Chidambaram said the Sri Rama Sena was “a threat to the country“, a good time to rewind Times Now editor-in-chief Arnab Goswami‘s interview with the “brain” behind the threat, Pramod Mutalik.
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Tags: Arnab Goswami, Churumuri, P. Chidambaram, Pramod Mutalik, Sans Serif, Sri Rama Sena, Sri Rama Sene, Times Now
9 February 2009 at 6:00 pm
I think hooliganism is what media is doing,,they knew about this before and rushed with thier camera’s instead of informing the police.Renuka gone further asking youth to ‘pub baro’ as protest to this. Salman Khan got fatwa for attending Ganesha Festival nobody spoke about that org..wonders wonders…
9 February 2009 at 6:30 pm
Mr. PC
“Threat to the country” ?? More like
“Joke of the century”
9 February 2009 at 6:58 pm
PC at least realizes that these kind of illiterate people are the real threat, kudos to him, I hope he takes action too, which iam not sure of though.
9 February 2009 at 7:06 pm
Media is intereted in Mutalik because he has a Hindu name, he speaks Rama’s name.
Media is worried for their life, as well as suffer from weired political dhimmitude that does not allow them to speak about real Talibans and Talibanism that is gaining ground in India.
9 February 2009 at 7:47 pm
If stick and stone weilding SRS is a threat to the country, what is Indian Mujahideen, and still active SIMI, which make bombs to kill the Hindus? Kittens, perhaps?
9 February 2009 at 7:58 pm
WTF has this one to with Moditva?
Churumuri team must be smoking something…
9 February 2009 at 8:05 pm
PC is a brain dead moron who ruined who the finances of the country as the finance minister, now he is out to ruin the security of the country as the home minister. While he is begging the pukis to act on the Nov 26 dossier even after 2 months, this guy goes around making stupid comments, in the gods own country of all the places, which is a hot bed of islamic terrorism. No wonder the country will be safe under his watch.
I hold no brief for SRS or Pramod mutalik, who by the way will do well to sticking to Kannada while giving interviews…especially with his abnoxious spoken hindi, let the TIMES NOW people worry about getting it translated to english/hindi. Also he needs to be get some training on being media savvy and learn how to present his arguments cogently in KANNADA ONLY.
9 February 2009 at 8:06 pm
Did advani just mention Ram Mandir? It must be election time! I say make toilets, not temples: http://bigotblog.wordpress.com/2009/02/08/advani-invokes-ram-mandir/
9 February 2009 at 8:31 pm
Shouldn’t PC and his boys at Home Ministry at least verify the statement by the only eyewitness who saw the terrorists at the fishermen colony and chatted with them regarding her ( supposedly) visit to USA, questioning by FBI etc ? How come nobody including PC, NSA, Pranab Mookherjee and our National Press is keeping mum on that subject ?
9 February 2009 at 9:44 pm
Renuka should set her house in order first before commenting on others daughters…
9 February 2009 at 9:59 pm
ERR>>How come nobody including PC, NSA, Pranab Mookherjee and our National Press is keeping mum on that subject ?
Thanks to votebank politics, the laws we have are unable to send Kasab to the gallows. This is the plain fact.
But Cong will have to manage the situation as vote is coming- that’s why Pranab, Sonia, MMS….are engaged into kind of OFF-ON rhetoric on Pakistan.
Will people be fooled again? I doubt. This is for all practical purpose last election for Advani as PM candidate (his ideology will drive elections for many many centuries), and we will see lots of firework- Advani, Modi, Jaitley will tear things apart- just watch how it unfolds.
***
>I say make toilets, not temples
Now, if this type of attitude is continued, I promise Hindutva will rule the country with single majorty sooner than expected.
9 February 2009 at 10:25 pm
Eat this:
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/pc-says-ram-sene-crossed-limits-rss-favours-ban/421142/
9 February 2009 at 10:27 pm
Threat to country ? Palaniappa Chidambaram has already hijacked banking industry and made it a mess. Now he is playing with defence forces of india. He is fit to distribute Bankers cheque to the people of Sivaganga. Better send him there, people are waiting for him with big garlands gifted by lead bank of Sivaganga. Hurrry Hurry chidambaram. Are you listening ?
9 February 2009 at 11:13 pm
The reason people/certain media discusses such deeds done in the name of hinduism/Indian culture is because many do not expect such intolerances in this community and the least that people in power should hesitate in taking good action against them. of course, in time if this becomes a regular trend no one will discuss or expect anything different in India. At that time am sure many on this forum would be happy that the Islamic fundamentalists and those in the name of Hinduism are treated the same or vice-versa?
9 February 2009 at 11:24 pm
RSS condemns the Ram Sena, says that they have “no objection” and will support a ban on Ram Sena. In case someone missed the link above, here it is again. PLEASE READ THIS. http://www.indianexpress.com/news/pc-says-ram-sene-crossed-limits-rss-favours-ban/421142/
Quite an interesting read, and especially so for Tathagata Mukherjee. Again, he has lived up to expectations by bringing up the ‘Hindu factor’.
10 February 2009 at 12:13 am
I’m no big fan of what Sri Rama Sene did in Mangalore. There should be no room for such violence. But, the media? Websites like daijiworld has made it a profession to blame everything on Hindus to please it’s biggest reader base – Muslims/Catholics living in Gulf region!!
Interesting thing about daijiworld can be seen here:
http://nvittal.blogspot.com/2009/02/little-experiment.html
10 February 2009 at 1:03 am
Vinay – I’m taking up for Tathagata. Why do you blame him for bringing up the “Hindu factor” in these discussions? It was brought in by Secular/Liberals first. Now that these specimen cannot maintain it, they want a “roll-back”?
And PC does not know black from white if he made that statement. He’s exhibiting his utter arrogance mired in bottomless stupidity!
I’m amused when all of a sudden the Sangh is quoted for support :) Otherwise this same organization is anathema! Just like our Secular-Liberals remember Rama whenever convenient..otherwise he becomes a ruthless casteist…an MCP…and an Aryan oppressor par excellence all rolled in one :))
Allright…the Sangh also wants a debate. Are the Secular-Liberals ready for one?
Btw…this must be the only “Nazi/Fascist” organization that’s asking for a DEBATE!
10 February 2009 at 11:02 am
Vinay,
Media, PC, fundoos like you are behaving like Karkare-II.
He spent 80% time in last month of his life (in his own admission) behind Malegaon. And we had Mumbai under attack for 60 hours. He paid by his own life.
For media’s TRPmania, and Congress’s somehow bash whoever speaks for anything remotely related with hindus thus appease minorities , country will continue to pay dearly.
When a country has lost 75,000 lives before jehadi terror, WHEN YOUR VERY STATE, CAPITAL ARE UNDER JEHADI RADAR, you want to make Rama Sene a issue?
Leaders will save their live, as they live under 5 layers of security. Who will protect you (and me and billion common man)?
***
Vinay>>Again, he has lived up to expectations by bringing up the ‘Hindu factor’.
See, Vinay- we also live in india. Even though may be living in big metropolis now, still maintain close contact with village, small town where grew up. Moral policing may appear a big deal to you, but its really not new. Its very common place.
Sitting Left Front MLA from my hometown went and broke down an authorized liquor shop few months back in West Bengal. Did it make any news?
Muslim groups engage in moral policing regularly- it makes no news.
There are reasons for the madness of media on Mangalore. Election is coming, possibility of bashing hindu right (however fringe that may be, even if advani condemned it on very first day), possibility of rousing minority votebank by bashing hindu right….are reasons for what we are seeing, watching for last few days.
WHERE WILL ALL THESE END UP?
Paramhansa used to say: no great work can be done by duplicity!
Same case we are seeing on Ayodhya Temple issue, Ram Sethu, Nano……….Pub Culture.
LET (say) CONGRESS STAND UP AND SAY- WE ARE AGAINST AYODHYA TEMPLE, WILL BREAK DOWN RAM SETHU, FOR PUB CULTURE.
I will be very happy if Cong says that. People will decide what they want.
But flipflop- for Ram temple in one time, against before Muslim people. For Pub CUlture in mangalore, against in rajasthan………
What’s going on? Are these good politics? Worse, are they worth debating?
Its pitting Hindus versus Muslims. What politicians are doing by their selective polemic is EXTREMELY DANGEROUS TO THE COUNTRY, PEOPLE, SOCIETY.
10 February 2009 at 12:03 pm
http://www.starofmysore.com/main.asp?type=news&item=19584
congress anti-national hooligans disrupt govt., sponsored anti-terrorism programme. who gives these lumpen elements the right to take law into their hands????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the whole nation is flabbergasted!!!! people are out on the streets pulling their hairs out!!!!!!!!! imagine a former minister leading these hooligans into one of bengaluru’s oldest colleges in the heart of the city!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! what is the world coming to?!!!
I can’t wait for a Padma Shri. Her Self-Righteousness Barkha dutt or a arnab goswami haul these “gundas” into their studios and rip them apart!!!!!!!!!!! what maaDbaarad papa have these “gundas” committed that the legendary padmas journalists should give them the short shrift?!!!!! heck, what wrong have they done that churumuri should turn a blind eye to their achievements!!!!!!! why can’t they have their half an hour’s fame too?!!!!!!! who knows, in the process the media can pat itself on the back for conjuring non-entities out of thin air and making them a “force to be reckoned with” just like they managed to do with the Raj Thackereys and Pramod Muthaliks.
the last time ram sena made the news was when ‘preeti eke bhoomi melide’ released. despite their best efforts to make a mark then, they unwittingly found themselves pitted against KRV and had to beat a hasty retreat. even further back in time, muthalik tried to meddle in belagavi politics and had been slapped into submission by the KRV (no prizes for guessing). and now, these two-bit ‘hindi’tvavadis have hit paydirt with their intellectual peers–the Great Indian Media Nataka Mandali–playing right into their hands and blowing out of proportion what indeed is of no relevance or consequence to the average common man on the street. But for the fact that this “outrage” was caught on candid camera, these same media legends who’re feigning all the OUTRAGE they can muster wouldn’t so much as have afforded it a column inch or half a minute in their networks. It would at best have made its way to the back pages of a Karavali Ale. Or Rati Vignyana (is it still publishing?).
Kudos however to The Great Indian Media Nataka Mandali for plumbing new depths in intellectual and moral debauchery. With the mother of all elections just round the corner, I’m sure the powers-that-be at the Great Indian Media Nataka MandaliTM are saying – “fasten your seatbelts and prepare to be OUTRAGED!!!!!!!! you aint seen nothin’ yet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”
10 February 2009 at 12:09 pm
Palahalli:
What is this all-encompassing ‘secular/liberal’ creature that you keep talking about? So, if a “Hindu Brahmin” like me gets pissed off with the Ram Sena’s actions, he becomes part of that ‘secular/liberal’ group, is it?
And just because a scoundrel has a Hindu name, and creates an organization based on Ram, he should not be questioned, no matter what he does, is it? The media is “interested in” Mutalik only because he has a Hindu name, according to your friend Tataghata. What insanity?
It amuses me too, that some people who had so far been putting the Ram Sena and RSS under one umbrella as the defenders of Hinduism, have to see now that the RSS has come out in the open against Ram Sena. What will these people do now? Claim that the RSS is also going ‘pseudo’? Or reverse their earlier stand and say that the Ram Sena is not so good after all, since the RSS has spoken out?
Don’t let the Bokachoda Chudorjee’s of this country have you believe that there is no issue in the country other than terrorism. Agreed, terrorism is among the most serious issues we need to be prepared for. But that dosen’t goddamn mean that there is NO other issue worthy of discussion. Oh, there are Jihadi terrorists on the loose! How dare we talk about flyovers and underpasses? And by the way, that murderer who was caught in Vidyaranyapura the other day has a Hindu name, did you observe that? Certainly the media is “interested in him” only because of his Hindu name.
Jihadis or no jihadis – thugs and scoundrels imposing some kind of Jungle Raj, cannot be tolerated, and needs to be discussed, condemned, whatever. It is your friend and his ilk who have changed this straight issue of goondaism into a huge debate on culture, Hinduism, Secularism, etc. etc.
10 February 2009 at 12:15 pm
Tathagata Mukherjee:
Again, a few frivolous arguments. What, pray, is the link between Ram Setu, Ayodhya and Pubs?
I am not a congress supporter, and maybe you need to stop seeing anyone who protests against anyone with a Hindu name, as being a congress supporter.
“What politicians are doing by their selective polemic is EXTREMELY DANGEROUS TO THE COUNTRY, PEOPLE, SOCIETY.”
Spot on – its politicians, not ‘Congress’ or ‘BJP’. Both are equally guilty, and please don’t have me believe that the BJP is absolutely blameless and plays the game without any divisive politicking.
I know that “Muslim Groups” engage in moral policing regularly, but let them try raiding a pub with 40 men and bash up girls – are you suggesting that the media will sit silently as part of their “minority appeasement” agenda??
10 February 2009 at 2:25 pm
Vinay
Breathatakingly brilliant.
Way to go man.
10 February 2009 at 3:42 pm
Vinay – You are “Secular” if you call youself, one. You are also “Liberal” if you accept that label for yourself. It’s up to you.
As far as being Hindu is concerned, it’s balance we seek.
You are part of the Secular-Liberal cult if you take the position this cult has espoused in this debate.
I have always maintained that this debate was pegged higher than it actually was, by the Secular-Liberal cabal.
If this debate had stopped at “Law & Order” and not ventured into the larger domain of Hindu mores, then there would hardly have been any divergence of thought.
Fortunately or unfortunately, this sensible boundary was not maintained from the word “go”.
You said – “It is your friend and his ilk who have changed this straight issue of goondaism into a huge debate on culture, Hinduism, Secularism, etc. etc.” Vinay – You are very wrong.
The first article on this subject was titled – “Girls drinking beer not Hindu?”
And, some questions were raised -
“Questions: Who decides what is decent, what is ethical? Is women going to a lounge bar or pub against “traditional Indian norms of decency”? Does the dark presumption of “unethical activities” give vigilante groups the license to raid restaurants, and kick and beat up customers? Does such violence against women (captured by TV cameras) fall within the purview of “traditional Indian norms of decency”? Since when did it become illegal for Hindu girls to go out with Muslim boys, or vice-versa?”
Our larger debate is a spin-off from these questions.
Tathagata is right. We would not have seen this debate if it were a Muslim or a Christian name or organization. And there is nothing hypothetical about it. He has given ample instances that again, have been so dutifully ignored by his opponents. You can see what is happening with the “kidnap” drama!
On the Rama Sena and the Sangh being put under one umbrella..who has done it here? I think you’re imagining too many things. Same with you bringing in “flyovers and underpasses” and “murderers”. Where is the linkage? Who has opposed or said that these should not have been reported??
You asked – “are you suggesting that the media will sit silently as part of their “minority appeasement” agenda??” – Yes.
10 February 2009 at 5:45 pm
Palahalli
Like I said, you have imaginary ghosts running in your mind.
When Tasleema Nasleem was attacked by fundamentalist Islamic goons, media did create a ruckus.
The clipping of Tasleema being thrashed in Hyderabad was repeatedly shown on TV. endless debates and discussions were held on every TV.
The channels went hammer and tongs against the goons who attacked Tasleema.
ALso, probably you are not reading what your cheddi comrade Thathaghata has been saying. He said several thousands were killed because of Islamic jehad and we dare speak about a minor pub incident?
It was he who said the pub incident was minor and Vinay was responding to him saying that the pub incident had to be reported, because you just cannot focus on terrorism 24×7.
Terrorism is a big issue. Yes, there are other equal big issues the media should focus on. Like poor infrastructure, like flyovers, underpasses, bashing of women, etc.
THe RSS chap in Karnataka says the Ram Sena is an agent of Congress! I wonder what Muthalik has to say for this.
What what is the constantly ‘larger debate’ that you seek to portray>?
10 February 2009 at 9:03 pm
Vinay>>I know that “Muslim Groups” engage in moral policing regularly, but let them try raiding a pub with 40 men and bash up girls – are you suggesting that the media will sit silently as part of their “minority appeasement” agenda??
Sir, Much worse thing are happening as we speak.
There are growing number of villages where radio, television, all sorts of music, even haircut has been banned. Some of them are within 100 km radious of delhi.
This is pure and simple case of Talibanisation. WHY MEDIA NOT WRITE ABOUT THAT?
You know, at least in Eastern India, most rural muslim women used to take part in outdoor work, particularly paddy farming for centuries. It gave them equality, empowered them economically. This is completely stopped now, as muslim women cannot go out of their home and work because of growing effects of imported Islamization.
WHY BRINDA KARAT NEVER SPEAK ABOUT THESE WHICH IS A REAL ISSUE?
As I stated many a times, I am not supporting physical attack on girls going to pub. But hyping up that news, equating it with Talibanisation are being done by vested interest WHO SOFAR KEPT MUM WHEN TALIBANISM HAVE GROWN TREMENDOUSLY IN AND AROUND INDIA.
If Congress/CPIM/media wants a genuine debate, let them first start following what they preach.
10 February 2009 at 9:40 pm
Vinay>>What, pray, is the link between Ram Setu, Ayodhya and Pubs?
In all the above issues (and many more), psuedos are engaged in double speak.
As was indicated by E Sreedharan (of Delhi Metro), all plan, fund allocation was finalized for a certain phase of Delhi Metro. Just one person sent a letter to our Prime Minister that certain section of metro passing near a old muslim cemetary will cause discontent to minority feeling.
Immediately, the plan of delhi metro was changed that caused some 2-3000 crore of money for this poor nation.
100s of millions of people objected to creating channel cutting thro’ Ram Sethu, still Govt is fighting a case.
What could be more double stanadard than this.
Actions like these are ROOT CAUSE behind why psuedos lost the ground (and will continue to loose it).
11 February 2009 at 2:15 am
http://www.thestatesman.net/page.arcview.php?date=2009-02-05&usrsess=1&clid=4&id=275609
This article which speaks for upholding freedom of speech that appeared in the Statesman started rioting by followers of peaceful religion almost daily in last 2-3 days.
WHY NATIONAL MEDIA IS MUM ON THIS?
WHY Mr. & Mrs Karat are mum?
11 February 2009 at 11:13 am
More exposure on attack on MLA’s daughter in Mangalore! This report is self-explanatory
http://www.haindavakeralam.com/HKPage.aspx?PageID=8193&SKIN=K
11 February 2009 at 11:48 am
Tathagata – Thank you for the links Sir. The “kidnap” incident has been forgotten so quickly by our Secular-Liberals :)
Vinay/Simple – Unbiased MSM?
11 February 2009 at 12:22 pm
I can gine instances of appeasement of minority as said by Thatagatha
Somewhere in 90s when votercard was introduced I was working in M’lore. Local Dist Admn has fixed a date for all locals of city to get their photos taken for VOter ID. It happened to be Ugadi Day!!! Entire public inclding Canra Chambers and other organisations have made request to DC for postponement of the event. The DC said nothing doing as EC has already expressed concern about the insufficiency of the progress made in issuance of Voter IDs. Finally locals resigned to the fact that the local admin is not going to concede. But hold it!! two days before the date given by the DC a appeal was made by local muslim leaders telling that it will incovience them as it happened to be Friday and they have to go for Jumma. Immediately the event was postponed. Whether anybody with sane mind will appreciate the callous approach of the local admin towards majority public demand where they have pleaded that it will disturb their yearly festival and the same admin appreciating the concern of appeal made by a particular community that their weekly rituals will get hampered, which hardly takes an hour or so.
11 February 2009 at 12:34 pm
Tathagata Mukherjee,
Thanks for bringing “The Statesman” issue to the limelight. We will definitely not see “The Hindu” or “Churumuri” raising this issue against “Freedom of Speech/Media”
11 February 2009 at 2:56 pm
All I am saying is, screw the “Ram Sena”, they are scum and deserve nothing better than that. If you agree that they are scoundrels and need to be made an example of, there is no cause for disagreement.
But saying that these protests against the Ram Sena are out of place because there are other issues, is nonsense. Taking each word on ‘underpasses and flyovers and murderers’ literally is dumb. If the implied message behind every word and phrase were to be explained, there is no hope.
I actually agree with most things you say regarding the “Religion of Peace”. But this business of linking it with the Ram Sena protests has to stop. If you hear Mutalik’s interview above again, you will see that he is a two-faced liar. Same with that rascal Ram Sena spokesperson ‘Vinay’ who comes on TV often to give interviews in his distinctly feminine voice.
11 February 2009 at 3:18 pm
Palahalli
anbody can write any crap on blogs.
It proves nothing
11 February 2009 at 6:22 pm
Vinay, the best thing to do would be not to expand the scope of the debate without cause. Rama Sena’s act was a law and order problem. Let’s address it as one.
Simple – Any opinion on the “kidnap” fiasco?
11 February 2009 at 9:28 pm
Thx sumakani for giving a such an enlightening example :)-
Threat of violence coupled with utter contempt of law while politicians bending their back for votebank are some of the reasons for this mess.
A LAW IS A LAW THAT APPLIES TO PEOPLE IRRESPECTIVE OF CLASS, RELIGION, CASTE. Unless this is implemented, we are heading for disaster.
NDTV et al are so concerned about MLA’s daughter (though its kind of mum after CITU members caught by police). here is an example what happened to a CPIM MLA
Place: Burdwan, South Bengal (CPIM’s strongest base in India)
Date: Dec-Jan 2007/2008
Person’s name= Pradip Tah, Sitting CPIM MLA
Locality= Near 108 Shiva Temple
Incident= CPIM’s sitting MLA was beaten black and blue. He had to flee wering underpants to save his life.
Action Taken= none so far.
Why= you guessed right- the act of MLA beating was done by a minority mob.
If Cong, Trinamool, or BJP mob did the same, CPIM would have buried them alive (yes, that’s how politics works at grassroot).
***
Vinay>>All I am saying is, screw the “Ram Sena”, they are scum and deserve nothing better than that.
You are after Rama Sene because Muthalik has a Hindu Name. Why not anybody even reporting, protesting those fundamentalists who are threatning the Stateman, Calcutta with dire consequences?
Because, you are worried for your life.
Those who buckle under threat of violence on Shah Banu, Taslima….both politicians, fundoo intellectuals, and made highest court like kangaroo court- have no rights to preach us.
***
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7883612.stm
Instead of acting against fundamentalists, now the stateman editor and publisher are arrested. No chance can be taken before election with muslim vote.
WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME SUCH SENIOR JOURNALISTS TREATED THIS WAY IN INDIA?
***
>>OK, I say it now: “The Mullahs who are giving death threats to The Statesman are scum, screw them”.
Arrange a campaign to send Pink Chaddis to Owasisi and mullahs from Calcutta. And then talk.
11 February 2009 at 9:55 pm
Tathagata Mukherjee:
“You are after Rama Sene because Muthalik has a Hindu Name. ”
Again! What is wrong with you?
Your statesman article only mentioned certain things w.r.t. relilgions, it did not say anything about protests by fundamentalists. I do not stay in Kolkata anymore, so I do not read the statesman, neither was this news conveyed to me by any media channel or any e-mail chain. So, how am I (or anyone else for that matter) supposed to dream that there is any issue, to “condemn” it?
OK, I say it now: “The Mullahs who are giving death threats to The Statesman are scum, screw them”.
Satisfied? Now does this give me the authority to condemn the Ram Sena? Can I have your approval, please?
12 February 2009 at 7:10 am
Very true TM. Why didnt these folks send pink cheddis to asauddin owaisi in hyderabad during the taslima incident?
12 February 2009 at 11:25 am
This is what is going to happen if we cling on to religion and unwanted age old beliefs.
How can we criticise/condemn a crappy religion like Islam when we have hindu religious fundamentalists in our own society??
I guess tomorrow ‘Sri ram sene’ will try to find suicide bombers by promising them date with ramba, urvashi and menaka if they die a martyr’s death…
12 February 2009 at 12:48 pm
Vinay – “Now does this give me the authority to condemn the Ram Sena? Can I have your approval, please?”
- Yes. “You” now may speak against the Rama Sene.
Please remember; that’s how close this battle is. Secular-Liberal credibility will remain mud if they are not seen to be even-handed and proportionate. I hope you will not speak about MSM media being unbiased, after this.
****
Kadana Kuthuhala – I reject you’re prescription because it becomes incumbent on “you” to call Hindu Dharma “crappy” in order to earn license to place Islam in its rightful slot.
Hindu Dharma must prove to “you” that it is “perfect” per “you’re” definition. And then, “you” will consider criticizing/condemning Islam! Ready excuse to do nothing. And the arrogance of it all to think Hindus must wait for the likes of “you” to give the go-ahead.
Please tell us how you call the Rama Sene “fundamentalist”? Look at the manner you stretch you’re imagination to force-fit this outfit in “you’re” mould.
Disclaimer – When “you” and “you’re” is within quotes, it’s not personal.
12 February 2009 at 10:26 pm
Rafia Zakaria about happenings in our neighbourhood
http://www.thehindu.com/2009/02/10/stories/2009021054801100.htm
13 February 2009 at 4:20 am
yeah kadana.these hindu fanatics could not carve out a land exclusive for hindus like in pakistan kashmnir,bdesh assam afghanistan and the mini pakistans like azamgarh etc.96 % of muslims voted for pakistan while hindus have to deal with people like you who smokescreen blindfold them when they are trying to defend the cradle of hindu civilization.
Criticizing RS is one thing for hooliganism.But people like you who call themsleves hindus,will then link it to BJP falsely and try to undermine india’s defence against jihad.
To compare RS with muslim extremists is like comparing assault to terror and massacre.Note thet english media bully RS with glee.See how they capitulated in calcutta.Hindu and herald have also done this.See how the news was blanked out by media.
And with enemies like you within the alquaida does not have to do much to take over INdia.Islam has already conquered 40 % land as defined above.Great job.26-11 and bomb blasts have killed 60, 000
but kandana points to a few RS goondas who are being ragged by the coward media for days.No comments on tasleema,mullahs banning coed madrasas,shahbano,family plannig registartion of marriage etc.
Osama look alikes are paraded by seculars for votes and alqauida issues threat.60,000 dead in terror blasts.But Muthalik and his goons are the
threat.Atleast convert to islam kanadana.At the end of the day you are an asset to jihad for take over of nonislamic land as per the holy dictat
13 February 2009 at 10:24 am
not sure I agree or disagree with everything the “sisya” (replying to Kadana) above says. But surely, that “sisya” is surely not yours truly.
tanx,
- sisya.
13 February 2009 at 10:56 am
Palahalli
kidnap fiasco…the CPM MLA admitting to whatever he had purpotedly admitted has not been reported in any major newspaper, major channel, major radio, major net site.
13 February 2009 at 11:31 am
Palahalli..YOU ARE A TRUE DALIT..Harijans definitely can feel superior when they meet people like you..
Hindu dharma means nothing to me cause I don’t care for Hinduism or any religion. I’m not a creationist like you are to believe in something that’s immune to criticism..
For an engineer, dharma is like coming up with a good design for an engine and for an IT guy dharma is like writing a good program. Dharma varies from one profession to another. In this context religion is a business and dharma outlines all the rules..
I’m of the opinion that we neither need theosophy nor theocracy to be good or to do good things. This is an information age with visual media playing such a big role that one can see for himself/herself to understand what’s good and what’s bad. India needs to kick out all the alien religions out of the country and free itself from this burden called hinduism.
Sisya..I guess you need to have someone proof read your comments to help you understand what you’ve written. I’m sure you have some brains to read and understand what others write before you could blabber nonsense.
13 February 2009 at 11:42 am
Palahalli:
I am very well aware of Jehadi threat, Shariat, Ummah worldview and all that. If you observe my posts in the past, you will realize. The point is, some people are willing to brush any hooligan act under the carpet, if it is perpetrated by a group claiming to be associated with ‘Hindutva’. Also, I am against giving too much power and leeway to groups like Bajrang Dal, because I feel they cannot be trusted in the sense that, they might/will very well rebound on us (civil society) in unpredictable ways. You are not going to like it if some groups become so powerful that they begin to indulge freely in extortion, hooliganism, etc. all in the name of ‘Hindutva’ or ‘Culture protection’. There is no protection to be achieved by handing the reins to such groups.
13 February 2009 at 11:48 am
Tathagata Mukherjee:
“Arrange a campaign to send Pink Chaddis to Owasisi and mullahs from Calcutta.”
For all your strong talk on every forum throughout the internet, I am damn sure you wouldn’t have the guts to open your mouth in public in Calcutta yourself. I have met hundreds of ‘you’ who live in bungalows in Tollygunge and pontificate about the “Muslim threat”, “Bangladeshi Immigrants”, etc., but shut their mouth and are silent as lambs when they go to Sealdah.
Coming to the point, in India, it is a sad truth that anything that happens with the upper-middle class or the rich of society, gets highlighted and condemned. If communal riots happen in a slum, there will be no protest marched in Delhi and Bangalore. The Ram Sena is in the limelight because they targeted the urban hip crowd. If a gang of Muslim mullahs has barged into the pub and done the same, trust me – the country would have been on fire. Every city would have burnt with communal riots. There would have been no need to send pink, blue or green cheddis. You will admit this if you are honest.
13 February 2009 at 1:27 pm
great reply to sisya kanadana.JUSst calling names to people when you cant answer them on the facts and analyiss.YOU know you should be happy that people even respond to idiots like u.
looks like you have never heard of a typing mistake when someone tries to minimize his time responding to an idiot like you because he wants to type as fast as possible knowing its a waste of time talking to a wall.
MOst people understand typos because it takes little intelligence but for someone whose response includes only abuses and the main point distracts to typing mistakes to avoid the lost argument,such understanding of mistyped words is asking for 2 much.
13 February 2009 at 2:14 pm
Some more evidence of secular reporting by TOI.. Again a mangaluru story
TOI:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Cities/Girl-ends-life-after-over-moral-policing/articleshow/4118319.cms
What the IE says
http://www.expressbuzz.com/edition/story.aspx?Title=%91Rapist%92+held+for+minor+girl%92s+death&artid=2qGwpqM7KJ8=&SectionID=7GUA38txp3s=&MainSectionID=fyV9T2jIa4A=&SectionName=zkvyRoWGpmWSxZV2TGM5XQ==&SEO=
13 February 2009 at 2:16 pm
“Hindu dharma means nothing to me cause I don’t care for Hinduism or any religion.”
OK
“I’m not a creationist like you are to believe in something that’s immune to criticism.. ”
Misleading usage of the word “creationist”…(mis)leads one to think that all hindus are “creationists”.
“For an engineer, dharma is like coming up with a good design for an engine and for an IT guy dharma is like writing a good program”
You mean “duty”… we have a word for it.. “Kartavya”
“In this context religion is a business and dharma outlines all the rules..”
Now what is “dharma” here and what is it outlining ?
“India needs to kick out all the alien religions out of the country and free itself from this burden called hinduism. ”
Why ?
13 February 2009 at 2:18 pm
Simple – Thank you for such unusual clarity and admission of fact.
Kadana Kuthuhala – I don’t know what you’re “true” Dalit is as apart from a “false” Dalit..but I notice that “you’re” one of those wood cutters in the forest who is adamantly hacking away at the branch he’s sitting on!
It is this self-same Hindu Dharma that affords you the freedom to talk of its destruction.
Please observe that “you’re” above aim might have even succeeded by now, if it were not for the fact that this “vacuum” would be filled by ideologies that will deny you that same right that Hindu Dharma assures you of. After all, this is what we have always been before “minorities” started to assert their “rights”.
Net net…Kadana Kuthuhala, it is Hindu Dharma that keeps “you” free to think about its destruction. But if you want to DO what “you” want Kadana Kuthuhala, “you” better be ready to assure this great people that they will indeed remain free after you’re project is done!
That is the burden “you” carry!
Vinay – A lot of Hindus have gone into survival mode. They will scratch…hack away…gouge eyes out..do most things they normally would not think of doing…if they even perceive a threat to themselves. Either in this forum or outside. The fact that this resistance is so disorganized and unstructured gives a wrong impression and our enemies start getting ideas until yet again, they burn their fingers…or burn us.
These are not normal times Vinay. Please don’t expect a lot of normal reactions. It’s a wonder that even under such pressure, Hindus have been restrained. Yes, restrained is the word.
And Vinay, Tathagata is making the simple point that if that gang of mullahs had barged into a pub…this world and the nether…would not have known about it.
13 February 2009 at 2:32 pm
Vinay,
You have put it rightly when you say ” The Ram Sena is in the limelight because they targeted the urban hip crowd “. Same is teh case with 26/11. The ‘enough is enough’ over it is bcoz the targets were places which the ‘filthy’ rich frequent.
However I dont quite agree when you say “If a gang of Muslim mullahs has barged into the pub and done the same, trust me – the country would have been on fire.”
This has been proved time and again not to be the case.The latest is the reaction of MSM to one of its own ilk(Statesman). Compare this with the ‘all hell broken loose’ reactions to the arrest(or censure) of N Ram or even that of anandavikatan or our own karavali ale.
Even the condemnations of the attack on Taslima nasreen were with lots of strings attached. I have seen Sagarika Ghose almost justifying the attack, stating that this was coming, given that she had offended the sentiments of the Islamists.
Islamists have been able to stymie all criticisms of Islam by not only ‘threatening’ violence and death but also by carrying out those threats.(Eg: Look at the plight of Geert Wilders for making ‘Fitna’ or the other Dutch film maker whose throat was slit in broad daylight in amsterdam for making a film critical of islam)
13 February 2009 at 6:41 pm
Vinay,
You said:
“If a gang of Muslim mullahs has barged into the pub and done the same, trust me – the country would have been on fire. ”
http://www.mumbaimirror.com/index.aspx?Page=article§name=News%20-%20City§id=2&contentid=20090119200901190252246906371d0fc
A similar thing happened in a Mumbai. Urban hip crowd, mall, girl (moreover, a foreigner) ; you had all the ingredients for the country to go up in flames. It didn’t.
Open your eyes to the SECULAR media.
13 February 2009 at 9:00 pm
Goldstar:
Bad comparison. PAKISTANI GIRL, in MUMBAI, soon after 26/11 attacks will not get much sympathy. And on top of that, the girl had some Urdu inscription on her ass (or somewhere nearby), and some Muslims were offended, and beat her up.
Really does not qualify as an incident which would have any of us fretting too much – country going up in flames is a far cry. If a group of Muslim mullahs barge into a pub, and beat, push and molest girls (predominantly Hindu), the country will certainly be in flames when word gets around. Anyway it’s a hypothetical situation, so no point continuing to debate this.
13 February 2009 at 9:48 pm
Goldstar,
Thanks for the link.
The most outrageously funny part of the story is that of Mumbai Police, which reads like ” the cops referred the matter to legal experts to see if they could book Saba(the victim) for hurting religious sentiments or under any other legal provision”.
(Reminds you of anything? Eg : Punishment for being raped)
How about booking the thrashed partying girls of Mangalore and the “association of loose and drinking women” for hurting religious sentiments?
This seems like soft Shariat.. Im worried if those barbaric set of rules start getting legitimacy and currency in India too (I read that some Italian court allowed a muslim man to beat his daughter, as dictated by Shariat. Europe has already capitulated)
14 February 2009 at 10:11 am
Goldstar- thx for the link.
Vinay>> barge into a pub, and beat, push and molest girls …
Still, there is not a single victim registered one single police case. Forget molesting girls, even simple case is not registered. Since when media started replacing judicial system in India? (WHY MEDIA IS MUM WHEN 5 KERALITES, CAUGHT FOR MLA DAUGHTER ISSUE, REFUSE TO GO BACK EVEB AFTER COURT GAVE THEM BAIL, CITING SECURITY REASON? It would have been a headline, if it were in a BJP ruled state- but when CPIM rules Kerala, it makes no headline.)
Rama Sene thrashed girls once (Muthalik apologized for that later). Media put that 5 second in a loop and showed 10s of 1000s of times. If daughter/sister of NDTV, CNN_IBN promoter were amongst those girls, would they have done the same? I doubt.
Psuedos, section of media are behaving just like Rama Sene, even worse.
Two different standards are being followed depending on religious affiliation of the victim. Make no mistake, it will not solve any issue, rather create more hardened identity amongst Hindus.
Nowhere in the world secularists, modernists follow this sort of double standard. If they were to show spine like richard dawkins- it would have been different.
Society is evolving. Today’s generation care much about culture, religion than (say) our generation, or one before that. Continued double standard is going to do major harm to media, if not already.
These sort of double standard, selective use of information, ommission will not save psuedos in India. rather, it shows they are in deep trouble.
14 February 2009 at 11:22 am
Goldstar
your example is wrong.
THat paki girl had holy arabic verses on her body.
Nothing like that happened in Mangalore.
14 February 2009 at 2:48 pm
Tathagata – Secular-Liberals all over the world capitulate to Islam. It’s a standing rule with them.
Vinay/Simple – Sorry to say…not only are you justifying the beating of that girl in Mumbai…you are also proving my above contention right. Never fails.
14 February 2009 at 10:07 pm
Palahalli>>Secular-Liberals all over the world capitulate to Islam. It’s a standing rule with them
I don’t agree with you on this. Rushdie(free speech), Taslima (rule of law) are fine examples. Neither they will allow violence to achieve political goal. We all have read rushdie. You may may not have read Taslima’s “Dwikhandita”, but I have done that in original Bengali. The para for which CPIM Govt banned it (later unbanned by Calcutta HC), is a fine example of rationalist/atheist position- that religion was born in primitive societies because of insecurities man had. Women have lost consistently before organized religion, particularly Arab women after advent of Islam. Psuedos say that about Hinduism days after days in India.
WHEN RUSHDIE WAS BANNED IN INDIA, NOBODY READ THE BOOK IN INDIA, NOT EVEN SHAHABUDDIN WHO SPEARHEADED THAT. So, why the ban was demanded?
There was a great article by noted historian Partha Chatterjee during that period questioning the rationale of demand to ban Rushdie that appeared in EPW. Wish net was available those days. It was a great article.
When looked into totality, all these demands, mass mobilization on behalf of that have a goal – alll these are part of LARGER ISLAMIZATION PROJECT. Not only this must be confronted in a secular state, but also history tells us what politics of 4 decades of Muslim League achieved- partition of our country.
14 February 2009 at 10:59 pm
Palahalli:
WTF is “justifying the beating of that girl in Mumbai”? I said that the example he gave was incorrect in this context. Do you have a problem understanding and analyzing arguments?
The way to prevent ‘capitulating to Islam’ is not to fuckin’ do things like SOBs all over the country have been doing today. You and that Bokachoda friend of yours should be thrashed soundly while walking with your wife on the road one day (it happened today with siblings, at this rate it will happen with wives too one day). You can try your reasoning skills all you want with them there.
What you guys are doing with this assholism is to bring up the “Threat of Islam” factor each time these hooligans shows his true colors. “Islam is the enemy, so all Hindus unite, and forget these minor things” – is your bullshit message. Islam may be a ‘threat’ in its own way, but I, being a Hindu, consider these Bajrang Dal & *Sena Scumbag bastards to be a HUGE threat to ME. “Media is ‘pseudo secular’ and biased” is a wonderful refrain. Well, maybe they are, so does that make the crime that has been committed any less? “Oho, Because the media is pseudo secular, let’s ignore everything that these bastards are doing”. What brilliance.
Thorough assholism. Continue this, and your children will pay the price one day.
15 February 2009 at 3:55 am
“Nothing like that happened in Mangalore.”
More than that has happened elsewhere in India…(Hussain sahebru gynapaka madkoli).
What happened then ???
15 February 2009 at 1:15 pm
Vinay
Excellent post. Truely a very refreshing thought. You have clearly spelt out the true agenda. By making us anxious of the jehadi brigade, these guys are ruling the roost. Now tell me are we still afraid that the Islamists are going to convert us. Even in todays world. That’s a joke.
And as you rightly pointed out, our actions will determine how our children will live in this country.
If you look at it in the global sense, the westerners are creating these issues related to jehadis and terrorists and the lot. You tell me since when are we really knowing these Islamic jehadis…
Creation of Israel…Who would appreciate if the guests kick out the hosts. This is the real root of the whole issue.
Anyway as far as our country is concerned, unless and until we preserve our multi cultured,multiraced society and nurture it..We won’t have anything left to pass it to our future generation.
Way to go way Vinay.
15 February 2009 at 6:58 pm
Tathagata – The fact is that the Secular ideology has weakened the Hindu. It has hollowed out our polity of all its strength. Its debilitating virus has afflicted our elite and now threatens the rest of our society.
Please tell me if you don’t think Taslima or Rushdie, you’re examples, would not have been accorded their deserved freedom under Hindu rule? I say they would have been accorded freedom AND respect for their points of view. Their opponents would have been accorded a platform to debate from.
We do not need a “khokla” Secular ideology to think and do what is right.
What is this Secularism that commands such adulation even from the most Hindu of Hindus??
We were NOT secular when we invited/tolerated/encouraged the Christian, the Parsee, the Muslim and the multitudinous races before them all! We had what is called “Hinduism” today.
When Hindus fought against the injustices of Caste..they did not call themselves “Secular”.
When Dayananda lambasted defects in various religions including amongst the Hindus, he did not call himself “Secular”.
Who in our history…who did good, called himself “Secular”?
Was it Yagnavalkya? Was it Janaka; who heard him debate with many strong opponents…including Gargi…a lady? It was Yagnavalkya again, who lambasted the Brahmin priest for encouraging the practice of partaking from the sacrifice! He said, the blessings (Prasada/offering) from the sacrifice must go only to the sacrificer and not to the priest. Was he “secular”??
Was it the many Bhakti saints? Was it Phule? Was it Narayana Guru? Was it Ambedkar? Who??
To claim that Hindus need “Secularism” over their heads is the greatest sham of the last century! All this “Secularism” has done is to bring us to our current state.
Vinay – I’m surprised, again, with you’re diatribe. Please revisit you’re response to “Goldstar”. After that, I’m very surprised you have anything to say against the Rama Sene at all! You lose you’re credibility right there!
I have NEVER supported the Rama Sene violence. Please stop reiterating a falsehood; unless that is the only peg you’re standing on now.
And please do not downplay the MSM’s criminal role in such situations.
Ashoka – Islamists are not interested in conversion any more. They are much more interested in submersion of Kafirs!
You repeat the tired old cliché of “Western” oppression of Muslims as if no other people were ever oppressed by colonialists; and Muslims themselves were the greatest oppressors.
Please also remind yourself that there were two partitions in 1947/48.
The Jews are not “guests” in Israel. They were driven out when they became weak. They have come back.
For a “Dravidian” who wants rule under indigenous people…that’s most inconsistent of you. :)
“Anyway as far as our country is concerned, unless and until we preserve our multi cultured,multiraced society and nurture it..We won’t have anything left to pass it to our future generation.”
- The only reason you can even speak of such a possibility is because these many types exist in our midst. Guess which system/s and philosophy/ies was responsible for such preservation??
Certainly not the many varied ideologies that pass under the most fashionable labels today. Islam, Christianity, Secularism, Liberalism etc etc…none of these have shown themselves to be capable of preservation…either of the “other” or themselves!
Yes. A few of you will claim you are “Hindus” and not actually against Hinduism. I just wish you had more faith in you’re assertions.
15 February 2009 at 10:27 pm
Ashoka:
Actually, the worldview of almost all Islamist jehadi groups involves a strong streak of “Ummah-caliphate establishment”. Of course, they’re very far from achieving it, coz’ the nations which give rise to these groups are by and large extremely weak. All they can do is terrorist attacks. These attacks horrify and outrage, but they are no more than pinpricks in a large economy and country.
On the other hand, assume that tomorrow, the Taliban gets complete control of a nation as powerful as, say, Russia. Rest assured, they will not live in peace with their neighbors. They will show their true colors then.
All I am saying is, not to brush violent actions by so-called Hindutva groups under the carpet citing the “much worse islamist threat”.
16 February 2009 at 10:00 am
Palahalli>>The fact is that the Secular ideology has weakened the Hindu.
There was one ‘principled’ secularism, though not perfect, that was of Nehru’s. Its long dead.
Few months after partition, Nehru gave a major speech in Aligarh Muslim University before predoiminantly Muslim students on long history of india and its many achievements. He asked Muslims to come forward and PROCLAIM IT AS THEIR OWN.
I don’t think we can term what we are seeing for last 2-3 decades as secularism. Its old wine in a new bottle. Pre-independence Jinnah type politics of 2 nation (Hindu and Muslim) is back with a new name- Minority and Majority (divided along caste). Rallying minority along religious lines are dubbed as ‘secular’, while whoever speaks of Hindus are dubbed as communal. Demands are back for Muslim quota in Job, education, legislature- special Muslim institutes- all that created partition in the first place are being demanded again.
There was a time when Yagnavalkya could be discussed, or we could take pride in that. Its no more thanks to communal polemic on history that dubs anybody taking pride in events prior to Muslim Invasion as communal.
Will people, middle class accept this? Obviously no. What would be its results? More hardening postures of Hindus and Muslims, and social tolerance will be the major hit.
16 February 2009 at 10:17 am
Vinay is yet to prove that the agenda of womens rights, individial rights to choose (whether to go for pub), or free speech that are being pursued by psuedo media and intellectuals are broad based and WITHOUT communal bias.
A Richard Dawkins or Johann Hari would have been horrified seeing the communal propaganda, lack of courage to speak up.
Even verdicts of Country’s highest courts on Taslima, or Da Vinci could not be enforced.
And you have galls to even take name of Rama Sene who took law in their own hands?
100s of examples can be shown (many stratling examples have been shown here already) that will prove psuedos are NOT interested in womens rights, or individial rights, or free speech.
Mangalore incidents have been whipped up, that too with half truth, half facts, suppression of facts just because Muthalik has a Hindu name.
A major newspaper have been threatended by a group of people in a metro city- and nobody gives two hoots. The Editor landed up in police custody. Today, CPIM district leader threatended to cop off hands of a Kerala newspaper, damaged their office. Why nobody cares?
Tell us where you stand on WHAT YOUR POSITION IS ON WHEN 5 KERALITES ARE NOT LEVING JAIL FOR FEAR OF RETRIBUTION FROM CPIM CADRES IN KERALA?
Ill tempered language of Vinay shows he is loosing the debate as well as the plot.
16 February 2009 at 10:20 am
tm says nehru’s secularism asked muslims to proclaim india as their own?This is a stupid criteria because it is impossible when islam dictates that there is no concept of nationality.Just shows how off target nehru was as usual whether on kashmir or hindu chini bhai bhai or non aligned or socialism.Nehru’s real motive was probably a captive 12 5 votebank which is true even today though now it is is 15 % or more with bangladeshis.
Islam an d secularism are like curd and milk.The curd becomes milk.
People like TM are soft confused hindus who learn very slowly.TM should get ready to convert to islam just like the assamese,kashmiris pakistanis bangladeshis and then rest of india because secularism Indian style is the agent of islamic jihad.No country ever gave up 40 % of land to islamic conquest and yet continues to gift more and more land.THis is the result of nonsense nehruvian misguided votebank secularism
16 February 2009 at 10:46 am
In the mangalore pub incident if muslim fundamentalist groups were involved then our mainstream English media especially NDTV would not have taken up the issue with the same vigour as they have taken up this issue now. They have taken up this issue only b’coz it is committed by a group who call themselves “SRI RAM SENA”. If they had some muslim name then the whole issue would have been hushed up. This issue was a minor law & order issue. Now a days it has become fashion especially in English media to tarnish Hindu Religion.
I’ll ask all the poeple commenting here, what would be your reaction if your sister is caught red handed with a muslim boy, how would you react. What if you saw your sister sipping beer in a pub with a muslim boy. In the name of valentine’s day what if your sister is having pre marital sex. Put your hand on your heart & asnwer to these questions.
16 February 2009 at 11:46 am
>>No country ever gave up 40 % of land to islamic conquest and yet continues to gift more and more land.
True, u have a point. SP Mookerjee used to tell Nehru the same thing- that after giving up 33% of India based on religious identity, you have started preching secularism.
***
>.I always knew Brahmins were an offshoot of the jews. You guys too need to have your very own settlement in Israel.
The same logic that was applied by Jews in getting Israel was supported, applied by Muslims in India getting Pakistan.
Muslims in India believed they can demand a separate state wherever they are majority caring little for what minority of those states believe. Hindus/Sikhs/Buddhists of Pakistan never supported creation of Pakistan.
However, Muslims oppose when Jews applied same logic in Israel. What could be more double standard than this.
Your heart bleeds of Palestinians- but not for Kashmiri pandits, or those Sikhs/Hindus/Buddhists driven out from Pakistan.
What could be more communal facist than this.
16 February 2009 at 11:58 am
Palahalli
“The Jews are not “guests” in Israel. They were driven out when they became weak. They have come back”
-You have sticked your neck out. I always knew Brahmins were an offshoot of the jews. You guys too need to have your very own settlement in Israel.
16 February 2009 at 12:41 pm
Tathagata – Nehru is the fountain-head of India’s secularism…that was and that is. If Nehru were alive today, he would do very little or nothing at all, to change the course of Secularism in India. In fact, he would be harder on the Hindus. This much is fact.
Not for nothing did he proclaim his birth as a Hindu, an accident.
I would like Ashoka to comment on Dar-Ul-Uloom’s latest fatwa against “Jai Bheem”.
I’m not at all surprised that the SP has supported the Uloom and the BJP has supported BSP workers rights to “Jai Bheem”!
***
Ashoka seems to be an ardent devotee of that crank, VT Rajshekar.
16 February 2009 at 2:58 pm
Though I am against the corrupt criminalized BSP, this ‘Jai Bheem’ Fatwa is insane, and just another bloody attempt by the Mullahs to show how maniacal and fanatical they are.
Ashoka:
Blaming all ills of society on a small small percentage of society is stupidity. As per your previous posts, if you consider yourself a “dravidian and an original inhabitant” and you feel that you have maximum rights because you are the “original inhabitants”, and that all other races must be “driven out”, you should support the jews, shouldn’t you? Don’t you see a parallel here? I’m just saying this to show how silly your logic is.
VinayC:
“Put your hand on your heart & asnwer to these questions.”
Put your hand on your ass and say, a hundred times: It is none of my business what others’ sisters do. People will take care of their own sisters, and those who try to impose ‘culture’ on others’ sisters are bloody scum. Come on, repeat..
Tathagata Mukherjee:
As long as you continue to brush under the carpet, any hooliganism by “Hindutva groups”, simply citing something about “Islamic threat” and “biased MSM”, you are a much greater danger to the country than any jehadi.
16 February 2009 at 7:16 pm
Vinay – To you’re response to Tathagata, I can only say that renegade groups will only feed on Secular-Liberal blindness toward..surrender to…cozying up to..whatever;Islamists. It is up to the Secular-Liberals, solely, to rectify themselves or get blown away by such renegades.
I wish you could see the connexion.
16 February 2009 at 9:25 pm
Vinay
You talk sense, but this small percentage is trying to steer the ship to destruction.
By distracting the population to the threat of the muslims, they are clinging to power. Not all brahmins are crooked, but the guys who are posting out here seem to be full of poison.
Pardon me for being blunt. But I really do care for my country, and the solution I see here is by unification of the society, not dividing it.
Look at it this way. Israel is being welcomed with open arms in our country, despite the fact that they are war criminals since god knows when. This affection to the jews by our foreign office will be a real problem in future. What with so many defence deals signed(they have overtaken Russia as the top arms supplier to India). But the most worrying fact is their mindset being copied in India. Israel will I beleive never live in Peace. And I dont want my children to live in such an atmosphere.
Violence sowed..Violence reaped.
16 February 2009 at 10:28 pm
** Resubmitted :
I would quote just one incident here: During 1946 election, that practically created Pakistan, Mullahs were vying for Pakistan in United Province, Central India. Azad asked Nehru so Cong can put up some Mullah in some seats to tackle Muslim League.
Nehru said: NO.
Compare the way Sonia Gandhi & others appears before different Ulema Councils and give sops before elections.
16 February 2009 at 11:29 pm
So Ashoka thinks he can “buy” peace!
“I will not hit anybody…and in turn will never get hit nor will anybody hit me in the future too!” Logic of the scarecrow!
It doesn’t bother this “Ashoka” that Dalits have been booted and hounded in his Dravidian paradise since god knows when! That’s not violence…let alone violence reaped by those who did not sow it!
But it does bother this fella that Muslim killers are getting what they deserve by the one nation that’s not lost its sense of reality.
Sick! Unless of course, this Ashoka is not what he calls himself.
And Ashoka has the nerve to promote his Dravidian-Muslim bhai bhai scam without being honest about his bro’s fatwa!
Ashoka reminds me of that other cuckoo Swami Agnivesh (A great man otherwise who has done a lot in the social sphere).
He was in Bangalore to “grace” the Jamaat-i-Islami Hind’s “anti-terror” shebang. Along with that other no-good Sri Sri.
In all such “campaigns” all these guys have managed to do is yell…
“Islam stands for peace”,
And…
“Terrorists are not Muslims”..
but …
“Western oppression leads to such attacks by Muslims”.
Duh??
So, to continue, if you peruse this Swami’s website, you will notice something atrociously ironical. You will see him having displayed material about a court case. Yeah..a case where he’s fighting a plea to ban the “Satyartha Prakash”, written by Dayananda Maharishi.
Dayananda has taken “idolatrous” Hindus to task and many of his early followers took great pride in defecating inside Temples as a sign of “protest” against “religious obscurantism” in the form of idols…a la our “pink panty” party. Something Ashoka’s hero Naicker would have been proud of!
But it wasn’t the Hindus that wanted a ban on this otherwise great critique of religions; it was Swami Agnivesh’s close brothers in Islam who filed that suite!
Btw..where did you get the idea that we were “small percentage”?
17 February 2009 at 9:04 am
“Not all brahmins are crooked, …”
gee thanks. now that you have certified and qualified the existence of brahmins, please be kind enough to offer them a protectorate where they can eek out a measly existence. would it be appropriate if the brahmins renumerate you for your generosity?
israel has nothing to do with the plight or condition of indians. if muslims can get so worked up about alien palestinians, how much should hindus get worked up about native kashmiri pandits? as humanitarian as you claim to be i never heard you cite darfur as an affront to humanity.
you are just paraphrasing zionist-brahmin theories frequently peddled by pakistani ‘thinkers’.
first of all your claim assumes that there are no dravidian brahmins and no aryan shudras. you are prolly regurgitating bs that you heard a few fridays ago.
then your examples are illuminating. purniah. so now all the excesses of an intrepid muslim king, who by all fair accounts was a bigot, atleast for a good half his term, are to be heaped upon his minster. wah! bhai wah!! paapa, without the wily brahmin minister the king would be still suckling his mother’s teet, if not his own thumb. tell me another doode.
as is the common gloat, for close to 1000 years good parts of india have been under muslim and then british rule. so how come none of these enlightened folks manage to reverse the excesses of the brahmins? possibly because none of it actually existed? possibly because many historians have recorded that in many parts of india, brahmins were a minority in what then consitituted as schools? so we should celebrate the king and denigrate his minster. wow!!
i forgot to ask, can the ashrafis, who couldnt be caught dead accepting a lineage to india and who made a major chunk of indian muslim rulers live?
17 February 2009 at 12:01 pm
I seem to have touched a sensitive spot. Tarle Subba has christined me as a muslim already.
Glad at least you had the courage to accept that the brahmins were ruling us. And I would gladly elaborate by adding that they still are ruling us.
I dont know why the muslim rulers or the british didnt reverse the trend.
Probably they were naiive. And if they could not contain the Brahmins, does not mean that we should also continue to suffer under their misrule.
***
And on hind sight Palestinian plight is not on the top of my agenda. The cause of the Israel-Palestinian conflict will adversely affect our country with the way we are openly welcomming the jews. 26/11…nariman house..remember.
My point is why we want to fight another mans war. We are putting our society in danger by making friends with Israel. And our esteemed brainy friends who are ruling us are embracing their ilk and destroying the very fabric of our country.
Convince me otherwise TarleSubba
17 February 2009 at 7:48 pm
Yeah…naive like Mayawati.
Care to tell us how many Brahmins are there in her cabinet?
And why?
And is that number proportionate with the Brahmin population?
And why is it in excess?
On Israel and Jews and us being their friends..Yes. It’s a privilege to befriend a great people and another thing, we befriended them hardly 15 years back. How safe were we from Islamists before that time?? Was Pakistan and it’s Muslim sisters fawning over us? Remember the scene at Rabaat??
Ashoka, please don’t ignore facts. They’ll keep coming back and bite you in the butt.
17 February 2009 at 11:00 pm
Palahalli
Ok convince me by offering a solution to todays problem. We all will gladly vote for BJP and offer them the hotspot. What next?
(I hope you dont landup with a big post)
More Gujarat massacres….More muslim Ghettos…Or shall we totally vaporise them..Jews in Germany?
Then what? Is it the turn of the lower castes? Or shall we be spared. Of course you need domestic help.
My solution of equality and social justice isint acceptable by you.Come on Palahalli..spell out a roadmap!
18 February 2009 at 2:46 am
>>”And I dont want my children to live in such an atmosphere.”
Is there anything preventing you from moving bag, baggage and litter to any of peaceful environs ruled by the RoP? Say, Pakistan, Palestine…? Swat Valley perhaps? I’m almost certain that Jews aren’t welcomed with open arms in that part of the world at least.
18 February 2009 at 6:59 am
Ashoka>>My point is why we want to fight another mans war. We are putting our society in danger by making friends with Israel. And our esteemed brainy friends who are ruling us are embracing their ilk and destroying the very fabric of our country.
In a sense, India was partitioned because of Gandhiji’s monumental blunder of supporting Khilafat in some distant land. It awakened Muslim Mullahs in the whole country, and sooner or later, Gandhiji lost control of that.
Why will India cut off relationship with Israel, which is as much victim of Jehadi terrorism like India?
Its our national interest of techonology, finance, high tech sectors whether farming, or defense- we have very sensitive and important relationship with Israel.
There was a time when Nehru supported Gamal Nasser in Egypt on Suez crisis. That was biggest win of pan arabism in last many centuries.
***
Vinay>>As long as you continue to brush under the carpet, any hooliganism by “Hindutva groups”, simply citing something about “Islamic threat” and “biased MSM”, you are a much greater danger to the country than any jehadi.
Thanks for using the right word at last- hooliganism by Rama Sene.
About comparison between Rama Sene hoogalism vis-a-vis Islamis, jehadi terror – I give you a clue.
Who are shouting Rama Sene, making it a big deal?
All those psuedo parties who practise Muslim votebank politics, rally them religiously in the name of secularism, and stubbornly defend jehadi terrorism even when we are bleeding.
Its another ritual of votebank politics. WILL IT WORK? No.
Charity begins at home- implement court law on Taslima, Shah Banu. Only then expect Hindu groups, even if a fringe like Rama Sene to follow it.
WHERE DO WE SEE ARAB COUNTRIES TODAY? ARE THEY FOLLOWING SAME PRINCIPLE OF NASSER? If given chance, Islamists will come to power in almost all arab countries.
Once we paid price by supporting Khilafat in a distant land. NO MORE. We now go by national interest, not communal agenda of Muslims.
18 February 2009 at 7:24 am
first of all i didnt ‘christen’ you a muslim. that would have been an honorific. i accused you of being an islamist because you were regurgitating islamist nonsense about zionist and brahmin consipracy. vast difference.
your dravidian – aryan nonsense has been sufficiently demolished by posters here. beyond that please open your eyes to the world around you to see if any of that makes sense to you. if you dont have the ability to come to your own conclusions, please go through the scientific work of prof. picchappan et al., and learn how to arrive at the right conclusion. as i asked you before, how confident are you that there are no brahmins amongst the ‘dravidians’ and no shudras amongst the ‘aryans’ and no former brahmins amongst the present day shudras? can you name 10 brahmin kings from whenever you can think. failing which name 10 brahmin prime ministers. should be an easy task.
but none of that matters. purity be damned. fundamental thing we are what our evolution has been. and all sorts of people are part of our evolution. and we are one of the lucky few civilizations that have had an evolutionary trend. unlike the middle eastern civilizations, especially those to the south of the gulf.
second,
if israel is not high on your agenda why did you instinctively cite it. and why did you not talk about kashmiri pandits?
are you justifying the massacre at chabad house as a fallout of indian foreign policy? are you saying pakistanis and islamist indians represent the voice of indian muslims-some of whom refused to bury the terrorists? or are you saying that india should conduct her foreign policy to the satisfaction of pakistanis and indian islamists? whatever you said, you underscore my gut that your are an islamist.
if you dont like FP of any particular government you vote it out. if not, stage dharnas. you dont massacre innocents. this is the original true violent streak of islamists that spawned hindutva to begin with.
first of all, india’s tryst with jews is older than her tryst with with even muhammad of ghazni. too bad if you dont like the history of india.
second of all for the longest time since the inception of the modern jewish state, india sided with the islamic nations of the middle east. in return we got nothing. time and again OIC shamed us on Kashmir. atleast with israel, we have the continuation of our historic ties. barring iran & iraq and perhaps oman there is not one country worth calling our friend in the middle east. that moron from saudi arabia doesnot even have the common decency to visit raj ghat, when invited as state guest. that rabid fundamentalist cited his hateful islamist idealogy as a reason to not visit raj-ghat. and to think gandhi supported the caliphate.
later
18 February 2009 at 12:54 pm
Tathagata Mukherjee:
“Thanks for using the right word at last- hooliganism by Rama Sene.”
Don’t talk nonsense and stop your bullshit. I have never said anything about ‘Hindu groups’ or ‘Hindu fundamentalism’. I have consistently been calling the Ram Sena scum, scoundrels, hooligans, etc. etc. It is YOU who has been saying that I am ‘after the Ram Sena’ just because he has a ‘Hindu name’. YOU are the one who has started talking about ‘Romeos and challenges to them’. It is bloody YOU who finds Moral Policing ‘not such a big deal’. It is YOU who said: “Media, PC, fundoos like you are behaving like Karkare-II”. So, you are saying that we should IGNORE and brush aside this ‘hooliganism’ just because my State capital is in the Jehadi radar.
And you have the audacity to come back and tell me that I am ‘finally using the right word’. The fact is that you are a dishonest rogue, and have been advocating that what Ram Sena did is ‘no big deal’ and we should concentrate on ‘Jehadi threat’. I have been using the ‘correct words’ from the very beginning, and consistently. You can go back to the ‘small town where you grew up’ (in your own words) and set new and higher standards of ‘culture preservation’ and ‘morals’ there. Maybe you’ll be in peace.
18 February 2009 at 1:01 pm
Ashoka:
Islamic militants will massacre jews wherever they find them, more so when there is a running Gaza conflict. The fact that the Rabbi in Chabad house was tortured and killed, has nothing to do with our foreign policy. If we get cutting edge technology from Israel, just take it. Foreign policy requires you to be pragmatic first.
And remember, India roundly condemned Israel for its bombings in Gaza. So much for our ‘pro-israel’ policy. We are doomed to suffer Jehadi attacks irrespective of any foreign policy we follow. Might as well get some good technology from Israel.
18 February 2009 at 2:59 pm
if israel is not high on your agenda why did you instinctively cite it. and why did you not talk about kashmiri pandits?
I raise Israel as an example, bcoz i beleive that due to this burning issue, will arise a major war engulfing majority of the globe. And I don’t want my country to take sides and landup in trouble.
As Einstein(Or some famous guy..I fail to remember) once said, World War IV will be faught with sticks and stones.
I feel I have been cornered by all the brainy bloggers. Hence I rest my argument, and hope good sense prevails and my esteemed friends take up a non-violent approach for a solution
to our country’s problems.
18 February 2009 at 4:36 pm
@Ashoka
“Hence I rest my argument”
Honestly, what was your argument anyway ? You were changing your views in every reply!
18 February 2009 at 7:59 pm
Sandesh
Whom r u masquerading for buddy!!
18 February 2009 at 8:33 pm
Ashoka, please don’t go away. You’re much required here. We will always quarrel and clarify. No one person or group is “brainy”. All of us think and perceive. You’re great point is that you express yourself and listen. You’re thoughts might or might not be palatable to me, but I too “could” be wrong. The fun is when you prove that I am wrong. Then I convert to you’re thinking.
Hindus have always debated this way. We have been very free and too stagnated, in turns. No denying all this. Now is the time we must look to our constructive/destructive instincts and fight to preserve our civilization.
Only if this great civilization survives will we be able to enjoy our diverse traditions.
That said, now I would like to look to you’re points of order;
At the start, I would like to say one thing. When we walk in the middle of a busy road, we will be run over. We must either walk on the right or on the left of the road.
You have asked to be convinced of you’re opponent’s position. That can only happen when you’re opponent knows what you’re current position is and how you defend that position. No doubt, you have stated you’re position, but you have not cared to defend it against arguments. That makes you’re opponents think that maybe you’re not convinced about you’re own position or maybe you’re not clear about the issues involved.
So, on what basis can I convince you?
Coming to you’re points -
“Ok convince me by offering a solution to todays problem. We all will gladly vote for BJP and offer them the hotspot. What next?
(I hope you dont landup with a big post)”
- Let us agree on what the problem is before we discuss solutions. Because, I see a major disconnect between us on this point.
Based on that, we can talk about “BJP” being a solver of that (set of ) problem(s).
****
More Gujarat massacres….More muslim Ghettos…Or shall we totally vaporise them..Jews in Germany?
- I can suggest you draw a balance sheet of killings under Non-BJP and BJP rule, but that is just another discussion. More basically, this accusation is an insult to the Hindu. Today, it is not the Hindu who denies the Holocaust/Shoah and talks of vaporising Israel from the map.
****
Then what? Is it the turn of the lower castes? Or shall we be spared. Of course you need domestic help.
- This accusation is not even deserving of a response. Nevertheless, let me again remind you that Dalit leaders have always received proud help from Caste Hindus though I agree, not to the desired extent. It is the Hindu commonwealth that has accepted the Hindu Code and accepted that grave injustice has been meted out to our brethren. Measures of redress have been ensured. Perversions have been admitted to.
You speak of the Hindu organizations. Please name one publication from these organizations that harks back to “untouchability”. Let us not speak of Caste because Caste has by default been admitted as our societal norm across all parties with the exception of, may I remind you, the RSS.
******
My solution of equality and social justice isint acceptable by you.Come on Palahalli..spell out a roadmap!
- I haven’t heard you’re solution as yet. Where is it? You speak of Dravidian rule as “solution” and then you speak of non-discrimination amongst race-caste-creed. What do you mean by Dravidian? How has the current Dravidian dispensation ensured such non-discrimination in society? Is Jayalalitha not a Dravidian or is she one as she and her party men claim?
There are questions you might want to clarify in this debate that I hope to continue with you.
____________________
Vinay – I fully support Israel’s action in Gaza. In fact, I would have liked that it went the whole hog and solved the problem entirely.
18 February 2009 at 9:24 pm
Ashoka>>I raise Israel as an example, bcoz i beleive that due to this burning issue, will arise a major war engulfing majority of the globe.
If we count the number of Palestinian people displaced by Israel (during 1946-47 war)- its close to 500,000.
Its same number of people displaced by Islamic facists in Kashmir Valley during 1990-91.
If we say Israel is a major issue, why by same yardstick we can’t say ruthless purge of Pandits from Kashmir valley is not similarly burning issue? Saying Israel is a major issue is feeding to islamist gallery. Lets stop pampering them. Period.
Vinay aka Karkare-II:
Its those who follow psuedo secularism, who refuse to take position against jehad, islamism, who whitewash massive price India paying before Jehadi terror, WHO REFUSE TO IMPLEMENT SUPREME COURT VERDICT ON IMDT(Assam) for Muslim Vote……are the same people who suddenly woken up and branding Rama Sene as Hindu Taliban !
This is the strange way ( at least psuedos believe) votebank politics work in India. UNLESS YOU BASH HINDU, YOU CANNOT CLAIM TO BE SECULAR, THUS CANNOT GET MUSLIM VOTE.
My question to you (and psuedos): Why are you doing this?
Why pushing Hindus to the edge?
Is it not contributing worsening Hindu-Muslim relationship, more suspicion?
18 February 2009 at 10:00 pm
Ashoka
No one teddy.. Just re-read your comments… and tell me what is your argument. Lets see.. summarize it in bullett points!
18 February 2009 at 11:25 pm
Tathagata Mukherjee
“My question to you (and psuedos): Why are you doing this?”
Do you have any semblance of brains up there, or do you store them down under?
“who refuse to take position against jehad, islamism, who whitewash massive price India paying before Jehadi terror”
OK, now prove that I have ‘refused to take position against jehad, islamism” and that I have “whitewash massive price India paying before Jehadi terror”.
Just goes to show that you are another of those scum who are sooo fixated on one agenda, that you think all other problems and issues are linked to that one agenda.
Person X: “Hey, some rascals, scoundrels, thugs.. bashed up me and my sister near MG Road thinking we were lovers”
Tathagata Mukherjee: “WHAT? You.. You.. You Pseudo Secular! You enemy of Hinduism!! Fie on you, you Hindu bashing sickularist! Muslim vote-bank politics, eh? Don’t you know we have Jehadi terror????”
18 February 2009 at 11:42 pm
Vinay – Please permit one addition that would provoke Tathagata and (me);
Person X: “Hey, some (Hindu) rascals, scoundrels, thugs.. bashed up me and my sister near MG Road thinking we were lovers”
Tathagata Mukherjee: “WHAT? You.. You.. You Pseudo Secular! You enemy of Hinduism!! Fie on you, you Hindu bashing sickularist! Muslim vote-bank politics, eh? Don’t you know we have Jehadi terror????”
Thanks
18 February 2009 at 11:52 pm
Palahalli
You have convinced me to write further(whether it is sense or otherwise).
The only problem in this whole argument is “What is the real issue which we are discussing?”
According to me I am sincerely concerned about my India. I am totally focussed on how to save her from breaking into pieces.
For this not to happen I beleive that we should respect our present day cosmopolitan society and have an open mind towards people of all other relegions and castes.
I personally feel Religion or Caste is a totally personal matter.
And here i am being really open with you by admitting that Mayawati might really not be a right choice. But heart speaks for me rather than mind.
But comming to the point, we are concentrating so much on the jihadis that we are losing focus on our country’s citizens. If we consider all castes of hindus, both the muslim sects, both the christian sects, and the other small percentage of umpteen sub-sects(not to mention the language barrier) on one platform and somehow persuade them that this is their country, and all the opportunities and facilities will be given to them…then my friend I challenge you be it China or the mighty USA..they will be pale in our shadow.
I see unification the only solution. And for start why dont we remove the word relegion or caste from any admission form of any kind. Will it help? Or are we going to hide behind our religious heads and watch India break into pieces.
I feel Brahmins have played a major role in decision making from days of yore. And I personally hope that their ultimate aim is unification. And I am a total anti-Israel guy. These guys are ruling the USA man, they are in the banking sector, media, you name it. And I’m sure they are behind 9/11. I work by the theory “who is the benefittor angle”. And these jews have been more prone to fighting than the Islamist jehadis.And these guys are just not dependable. I wouldnt like India to depend on them.
I’ve just poured out stuff in a haphazard way. Do come out with your stand, and the way you like to deal with India’s problems.
19 February 2009 at 1:57 am
hey Vinay: yesterday, one Ex MP, public figure was beaten inside High Court, infront of a juge !! what happened? Nothing, unless its a BJP ruled state.
As BJP is ruling KR now, u better go to NDTV. Wish, there were video footage when event happened! It will be better- light and sound effect :)-
19 February 2009 at 9:26 am
More from the Casteist fascists.
Looks like the BJP minister draws his inspiration directly from the Taliban.
Expect some funny defenses from the casteists on this (bringing in Hindu/Muslim/liberal and other common buzzwords to condone the ministers fascism):
http://www.deccanherald.com/Content/Feb192009/scroll20090219119390.asp?section=updatenews
Minister gives an art attack
DH News Service,Bangalore:
The puritanical approach of Medical Education Minister Ramachandra Gowda towards modern art resulted in an unpleasant situation at the inaugural of the National Gallery of Modern Art here.
Gowda said a few artists, in the name of modern art, were insulting Indian culture and tradition. “This is because of the perverted thinking of a few self-proclaimed intellectuals, who are heading various cultural and art institutions,” the minister observed.
M S Murthy, a Bangalore-based artist, objected to Gowda’s comments and demanded that the minister stop his speech. “You don’t know what is modern art. Better stop talking about it,” the artist told the minister.
Infuriated by Murthy’s intervention, Gowda said: “I am not here to answer you. You… get out. The government is speaking here.” Also, he directed the police to take the artist out of the premises. While the police escorted him away, the minister said any insult to the tradition and culture of the land could not be tolerated. Later, a few artists walked out protesting the minister’s remarks.
Union Minister for Culture, Ambika Soni, who was present at the venue, appealed to the audience to stay back.
“Art is best left to artists. Gowda is representing the State government. I am representing the UPA government. I am not here to put censorship on anybody’s expression. I don’t think any of us has been authorised to impose values on anybody here.”
Meanwhile, artist Chi Su Krishna Shetty said all artists were not insulting the tradition and culture of the country. Replying to his comments, Ramachandra Gowda said: “I have respect for artists. I salute all artists touching their feet. I never say all artists are insulting the culture and heritage of the land. There is a section of artists involved in such acts.”
Leader of the opposition Mallikarjun Kharge, took strong exception to Ramachandra Gowda’s comments. Speaking to reporters, he said: “His comments show how a BJP man thinks. The minister does not know what to speak in a gathering like this. He has no respect for art and artists,” he said.
Later speaking to reporters, M S Murthy alleged that a police officer used abusive language against him. “The police officer insulted artists. He should respect artists”, he said. Murthy said the minister was ignorant of modern art and art works. “One should have a little bit authenticity to comment on artists”, he added.
19 February 2009 at 12:28 pm
Ashoka,
You and I have very little differences.
In our country, there are Castes in all religions. Yes, Caste is more pronounced amongst Hindus. One major reason could be they don’t have One God and One Book.
I see that as our strength.
In order to bring all this diversity on one platform of, let’s say, Nation Building; we must be able to focus on one common goal.
That Goal could be to make India strong and prosperous on the bedrock of our unique civilization.
The Hindus, being the vast majority, also make a unique Civilizational bedrock. For our country to achieve the Goal of Strength and Prosperity, we must build on this bedrock and ensure it does not get undermined by fissiparous elements.
These elements are amongst the Hindus and outside of the Hindus too.
I’m fine with attempts at “Intellectual Subversion”. That is what brings vigor and strength to any Nation. That’s a challenge we must face at an intellectual level. I will say the challenge from Secular-Liberals falls under this bracket.
The Jihadi challenge is so much more serious because it aims at destroying everything we hold dear. Our civilization and way of life. The method they use is of open violence apart from “back-office” support from the likes of Dar-Ul-Uloom and the Jamaat-i-Islami Hind and several others. Our Liberal-Secular folks also lend their hand in an unconscious manner.
If we want to become strong and prosperous, we must defeat these forces decisively.
You’re prescription to eliminate Caste is what I like to call a “form”ative attempt. I like to imagine folks will forget their Caste if they don’t get to fill it up, but unfortunately or fortunately, we have been filling forms only for the last say, 100 years? Whereas Caste has been with us since ages.
No. I think we are taking something very powerful and have not understood it’s strength. We must use Caste power constructively. I like to think that when the vast majority or very nearly all of our people, do not want to lose their Caste, we are only left with the option of working it better. That’s another discussion.
You have serious misconceptions about Israel and the Jews. I would suggest you take time out and study it more. Also compare Israel with it’s neighborhood. The other countries in the Middle East.
So, to continue our discussion, do you agree that Hindus are a great and unique Civilizational entity that must be protected and strengthened?
19 February 2009 at 12:37 pm
Palahalli:
What was the point of that addition in paranthesis?
Tathagata Mukherjee:
What exactly is this beating issue about? I couldn’t find it when i searched in Google just now?
19 February 2009 at 1:24 pm
Vinay – Point is simple. I would react like “Tathagata” if “person x’s” statement carried the “Hindu” rider or qualification.
The beating issue refers to the assault on Subramaniam Swamy in the HC premises.
http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/holnus/004200902172240.htm
I suggest we watch out for edits and op-edits and special vigils protesting this act.
Btw, the link refers to the Chidambaram Temple takeover by the DMK. Nice. Ho-hum….business as usual…
19 February 2009 at 3:17 pm
Vinay,
Beating issue: DMK lawyers (read, goons) beat up Subramania Swamy (for his anti-LTTE views) inside Madras High Court.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Cities/Chennai/Lawyers-hurl-eggs-at-Swamy-inside-HC-hall/articleshow/4146026.cms
19 February 2009 at 3:49 pm
Bomma
Moral of the story ?
And is this not elitism to say, ” You don’t know what is modern art. Better stop talking about it,” ……. ?
So, now onwards we should be certified by the “professionals” to speak ?
“Looks like the BJP minister draws his inspiration directly from the Taliban.”
You don’t know what is BJP and taliban. Better stop talking about it….
19 February 2009 at 8:17 pm
“You don’t know what is BJP and taliban. Better stop talking about it….”
Followed by:
The Sandesh is speaking? Get out? :)
If only the likes of Palahalli and Tathagatta keep pissing on these forums, even you brahmin types would die of boredom.
So learn to read other things besides what is taught to you at religious meetups.
Anyway expecting more entertainment from the moral police and their hindu jihad on women, arts and god only knows which soft target next.
19 February 2009 at 8:35 pm
“even you brahmin types would die of boredom.” – And the fellow speaks against caste!
19 February 2009 at 8:41 pm
Bomma>>More from the Casteist fascists.
Hindutva, Hindu Nationalism is NOT CASTEIST. Those who believe in nationalism are bound to destroy smaller identities like Caste that keep people divided and put road block to the nationalism project.
Recently, I was reading “In Light of India” by OCTAVIO PAZ, a major literary figure. He spent many years in India, this book is based on his experience. He also discussed Hindu Nationalism at length and how its trying to dismantle caste by erasing it for its nationalism project. Remember, he is no friend to Hindutva the way Naipaul, Nirod C Choudhury is.
Rather, Hindutva is out to destroy caste. Only psuedos who follow Caste politics (remember KHAM in Gujarat and elsewhere) perpetuate this lie for their caste politics.
Its this painter who is behaving as a facist. does the minister has his rights to free speech or not? Or its only limited to those who abuse Hindu sensitivities?
19 February 2009 at 9:49 pm
>>If only the likes of Palahalli and Tathagatta keep pissing on these forums, even you brahmin types would die of boredom
I don’t believe in caste by birth, neither I practise it in my personal life. I will support you becoming a priest (if u are a hindu, even if converted) irrespective of yr ‘caste’, if you pass the required exam, at the highest hindu temples.
>>Anyway expecting more entertainment from the moral police and their hindu jihad on women…
Only internal enemies try to divert attention from real Taliban who are now at 5 hour drive from our Punjab border.
But, I promise you, India’s response today will be markedly different than Gandhian harikiri.
20 February 2009 at 12:51 am
*Palahalli*
I like reading you, but I’m afraid I do not have the same understanding of Hindu dharma that you enthusiastically claim.
In my understanding, the Hindu way of life is to appreciate/celebrate diversity — that includes the philosophically exclusive traditions such as Christianity and Islam despite the grandstanding of Christians and Muslims.
To accept multiple paths to the Truth and to seek perfection/divinity within — that’s what makes me so proud to be Hindu.
My humble suggestion is that you read good secondary literature — such as Swami Vivekananda’s four yogas, or commentaries by any scholar of the Ramakrishna Ashrama, or even A. Parthasarathy/others of the Chinmaya tradition. Enthusiasm can have no better complement than knowledge.
20 February 2009 at 4:28 am
“This is because of the perverted thinking of a few self-proclaimed intellectuals, who are heading various cultural and art institutions”
— BJP minister
“I don’t think any of us has been authorised to impose values on anybody here”
– UPA minister
“You don’t know what is modern art. Better stop talking about it,”
–Artist
20 February 2009 at 1:10 pm
“In my understanding, the Hindu way of life is to appreciate/celebrate diversity — that includes the philosophically exclusive traditions such as Christianity and Islam despite the grandstanding of Christians and Muslims.”
- Sir, I will accept this proposition when the Hindu elite exercise their powers of discrimination and are able to judge on merit/reality. Until that time, I’ll stay in the trenches and can only invite you to do the same.
20 February 2009 at 2:00 pm
Palahalli
Check out the following link:
http://deccanherald.com/Content/Feb202009/editpage20090219119561.asp
The caption ” Right in the Middle” from Maya Jayapal is very heart warming.
I would like all of us to have the same tolerence towards people of other faiths. That is the way to move forward.
20 February 2009 at 2:32 pm
Ashoka – From the article;
“I am no less a Hindu or Muslim or Jew or Christian or Buddhist if I choose to pray to others.”
- Please find me the “Muslim or Jew or Christian” who will pray to Hindu Gods and Goddesses.
I think the inclusion of Buddhists qualifies as either mischief or plain ignorance on the part of the author.
My wife visits the Infant Jesus shrine every week. I wait outside.
She also visits the Sai Baba Mandir soon after. I ask her if she found a Muslim or a Christian or even a Jew in the Mandir. She says it’s not important.
What do you think Ashoka? Is it important?
20 February 2009 at 8:38 pm
Palahalli
Do check out the foll link for info regarding the nature of jews and Israel
http://mailstar.net/wtc.html
And I dont want my India to become a pawn in the hands of the jews.
20 February 2009 at 8:48 pm
As soon as the chennai issue happened, a bokachoda had already started saying things like “media is not highlighting The chennai issue, it will do it only in BJP ruled states”, etc. Etc. The chennai issue is all over every media channel.
guys like bokachoda chudorjee are india’s worst enemies. All such people need to be hanged in public.
20 February 2009 at 8:56 pm
And now, on headlines today, i see that there is a huge discussion on the homosexuality among nuns, that controversial book. And bokachodas would have us believe that the media never ever highlights any ‘minority negative’ stuff. Just goes to show that bokachodas survive by feeding people hate. There might be an element of truth in the fact that media is not always impartial, but this bokachoda propoganda needs to be banned.
22 February 2009 at 1:00 am
Vinay: why not a single columnist dared to stand up for the editor of the Statesman? Why nobody stood before Mullahs? Vir Sanghvi is the only person who could show some spine, though belated.
http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?sectionName=HomePage&id=630b8c69-4672-4e12-ac2a-a9073f5165d4&MatchID1=4932&TeamID1=7&TeamID2=8&MatchType1=1&SeriesID1=1247&PrimaryID=4932&Headline=Stand+up+to+the+mullahs
22 February 2009 at 2:07 pm
When I speak of one issue you bring up another one!! You will not look at the fact that you were WRONG when you claimed that the media is not highlighting the Chennai issue. You will not look at the fact that the media is giving a lot of coverage to the catholic nun-lesbian-issue. You will continue to make the same standard statements that you are used to, no matter what.
I agree that the media is often immature and silly, and that they frequently misquote people, make mistakes during hurried reporting, and so on and so forth. But while it might be true that the media is not always unbiased, I don’t believe your stuff on media being pro-congress and anti-BJP. This is something you keep shouting from the rooftops.
The moment I start hearing keywords like ‘pseudo’, ‘rich culture’, ‘Hindu sentiments’, ‘hurt sentiments’, ‘Indian heritage and culture’, ‘morals and values’, etc. etc. I can predict with 99.99% accuracy what the person is going to say.
I am happy that the media ‘hyped up’ the Ram Sena affair. I am happy that the nun’s case is being given coverage. I will be much happier if they cover mullah stuff comprehensively. Your problem is that you will begin ranting all those ‘keywords’ the moment anyone with a ‘Hindu name’ is so much as mentioned by the media.
22 February 2009 at 11:17 pm
Vinay: I write what I deem logically as truthful. And I provided many examples (people gave many more) to prove those. Using ill tempered language does not solve the issue. It complicates the issue.
As I stated many a times before- psuedos are complicating the issue by their double standard.
Hindus and muslims lived in relative peace, occassional fight for last many centuries. Now, media is creating identity by their double talk which should be avoided by all means.
Also, does common man believe in these sort of imported liberalism? I told you before:
My mom is a traditional CPIM voter. She will throw a broomstick if she sees Goddess saraswati drawn in not appropriate attire by MF Hussian.
Hurting Hindu sentiment is “the” way to prove one is secular in India. I must say, this is most dangerous thing.
23 February 2009 at 1:22 am
And in addition, if you look at your own comments, it seems that you are from another planet – no idea of realities in India.
“Still, there is not a single victim registered one single police case. Forget molesting girls, even simple case is not registered.”
Only someone who has rocks in his head will fail to understand why the girls are not registering a case. In fact, for all your bravado, you will cower in a corner if you are ever faced with politically connected goondas.
“Society is evolving. Today’s generation care much about culture, religion than (say) our generation, or one before that.”
Oh really? Balls. Let us see about that.