For more than ten years, Electronic Voting Machines (EVMs) were not used in Indian elections even though they were ready because politicians of the V.P. Singh kind, luddite by-products of the computer era of Rajiv Gandhi and therefore naturally ill-disposed towards anything that had a whiff of modernity, felt they could be manipulated to tilt polls one way or the other.
Or that the unwashed millions were too ignorant to use them—or use it the way they would like them.
But ever since their introduction in the 1998 elections, EVMs have gone on to be one of the great triumphs of Indian democracy—and technology. While literate America battles the “hanging chad“, mostly illiterate Indians proudly troop to booths and press the buttons. The results are out in a jiffy, and at each election the tech-unsavy slap those who have questioned their ability to handle computers, cellphones, ATMs and all the rest. Hard.
But the verdict of the 2009 elections has given the conspiracy theorists some much-needed oxygen in the cesspool. L.K. Advani has asked questions of the EVMs. Subramanian Swamy has asked questions of the EVMs. Jayalalitha Jayaram, who has been asking questions of EVMs for a long time, has asked the same questions again. (Of course, P. Chidambaram‘s strange victory doesn’t help.)
Now, this strange advertisement appears in the Indian Express in the name of Rahul Mehta.
As the old Kannada saying goes, “Kunilaarada soole nela donku andalanthe (the whore who couldn’t dance complains about the floor).”
churumuri 
My observations on the elaborate arguments of Rahul Chimanbhai Mehta on possibility of rigging of EVMs
1. The process & the formula is complex to understand. I read it 10 times even used a spreadsheet to calculate but couldn’t figure out or crack his muddled procedure.
2. Based on point no. 1 , it would be equally complex for top ECI or EVM manufacturers’ officials to figure out which trojan to put in which EVM & for which booths in which constituency so that the “favoured” candidate wins the election.
3. The officials would also have to ensure the victory margin does not look awfully large. Assuming there are 5 candidates & 100 voters then each in a complete fair voting would have secured 20 votes. Now if the EVM is so rigged that every 5th vote goes to one particular candidate then that candidate will now secure additional 20 votes besides his original 20 (this is assuming again that all the 20 rigged votes come from his voters who would have voted his opponents). So now the tally is 40 votes in his favour whereas the other 4 candidates get 15 votes each. The margin now is 25 whereas in the original case it was 0. Such a huge swing in margin % (25% atleast) would not go unnoticed by even the intellectually challenged people when the swings have never crossed more than 2-3 % in the history of elections.
4. The complexity of the procedure makes it so risky that the procedures may actually backfire on the “favoured” candidate if the wrong Trojan is inserted .
What then is the motivation for this campaign ? It is not hard to guess if you look behind and remember that L K Advani had stated in his campaign speech that 1.5 trillion of US dollars are deposited by Indian in swiss banks. A chain mail campaign had started that raised the figure to 3 trillion & 10 times than rest of world . The swiss banks had rejected the claims &c official documents pointing out to such imaginary figures were never cited either on the internet or anywhere else.
The rigging of EVM is a similar campaign that is started by BJP although this time LK Advani was careful enough to state that ” I am not accusing that the 2009 elections are rigged”.
BJP is obviously not a graceful loser by any standards and LK Advani’s dreams of becoming the PM will only remain a dream. The party should seriously introspect where it has gone wrong and come out with a matured strategy & leadership to be considered as a serious national opposition party by the voters. Otherwise UPA will continue to win election after election notwithstanding misleading accusations of rigged EVMs.
Lastly , to quote Churumuri: “The tech-unsavvy are right in slapping hard those who question their rights to use tech gadgets with the intent to mislead “.
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Rahul Mehta, stood against LKA in Gandhinagar in the Loka Sabha elections. RM got more than 7000 votes and was placed 4th just behind Mallika Sarabhai. Consider this, RM is a random part time IT-employee. He is not of any vote-worthy caste. Infact he is of minority religion. Had no celebrity, media or intellectual endorsements. No money.
He got almost the same number of people as Mallika Sarabhai to vote for him. Main reason is his ideas. He didnot promise to get somebody x percent reservation, he didnot promise roads, flyovers, 2 rs/kg rice(but he says, he supports 3/5kg cylinders so that it becomes feasible for many more people by reducing initial capital cost – like shampoo sachets) etc etc…
He is a STRICT constitutionalist in that he only talks about laws and procedures required to fix problems.
He supports jury system. He is convinced that the current judicial system is corrupt and breeds nepotism and nexus.
He supports right to recall – PM, CM, judge, police commisioner etc…
He wants to implement procedures that will allow COMMONERS to submit drafts of laws they want to see enacted. He has suggested procedures for these.
He wants to tax and seek land & resource rent for COMMONERS all national resources.
I really hope people Alok(legal) and Simple(political) can look into his ideas and perhaps offer a critical review, so that people like me can better understand his ideas.
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EVM is basically a micro processor controlled electronic device. If you can program it to register all votes to one particular candidate it will do that, without any hesitation
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The line Churumuri is toeing is not unexpected. One of the reasons why all the advanced countries of the world have still not opted for electronic voting is that there is no scope for audit trail of secret ballot.
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Reading TS, looks like Mehta wants self governing local bodies with a great degree of autonomy.
I’m surprised local referendums don’t figure in the list. That could decide the fate of the commoner’s legislative proposals.
We are now used to big govt.and like to pass the buck on every issue. This local system will not suite us because that’s gonna force us to take more direct responsibility.
As ideas go, how does Panchayati Raj figure in comparison? That would be our closest constitutional practice & precedence.
Ah! Trial by jury in India! I’m reminded of Justice Atmaram’s famous statement in his final judgement.
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pumpkin thief, pumpkin thief somebody shouting, another man shoulder touching. what this means?
fundamental point. RM’s ad says EVMs “can” be rigged. He didnot say they “have” been rigged.
as the old saying goes, ‘kumbaLkaayi kaLLa andre hegal muTT noDkonDrante”
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The idea is to talk anything, politics or technology the way no one understands. Or just ‘beat around the bush’
Since most are are worried about their own reputation, they will shake their head and say yeah, yeah, that is is correct.
Mehathaji please approach the EC and show them that your ideas really works.
Till then give us a break.
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>>”(Of course, P. Chidambaram’s strange victory doesn’t help.)”
Amazing piece of handwaving! Silken!
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TS,
…but blogs like Churumuri did not write about him before elections. Only wrote about Mallika who asked only questions but did not provide any solutions to the aam aadmi problems like Rahul has at least attempted to.
What do you think could be the reason?!
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Ah! Churumuri talking about conspiracy theorists now when it once provided a platform for a 3rd rate conspiracy theorist called Amaresh Mishra!
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Any Microcontroller based system works on the basis of software embedded in it. It could be your washing Machine, your car ….. . It means they do dedicated tasks with dedicated input/ out put ports. But unlike Computers these embedded systems do not have an operating system and capabilities for any software engineer to program it do what he wants in the field. In the case of EVM’s it has dedicated input ports in the form of Push Button switches which are used to register votes. Piezo Buzzer out put device does task of providing audio confirmation of the Votes cast. Another set of output ports are used for Seven Segment Display system which are not normally visible for the voter but used at the time of counting. These indicate the votes cast against the serial number of the push button Switch ( Candidates). These are very simple system, which any Electronic engineer who can program a Micro controller can design. What ever Trojan’s which Mehta is alluding in his advertisement is possible in theory. But in reality not feasible. EVM’s made by BEL/ECIL have micro-controllers which do not filed programmable Read only Memories. The program is fused in to the memory at the Semi- conductor foundry itself ( abroad). It is mass produced and foolproof. These Micro controller undergo stringent testing at both the IC manufacturers place and at the EVM manufacturer’s place before being soldered in to EVM master PCB. Thus by design it is robust and foolproof. The Micro- controller cannot be field replaced as it is soldered to PCB. Otherwise some one could have replaced it with a Miro-controller with a field programmable memory with a pliable software. Thus EVM’s made by BEL/ECIL can only be all good or faulty. So far no one has demonstrated in person all the theory they are blabbering. Again it is an insult to the PSU Employees who work on these project to be insinuated that they are pliable tolls in the hands of corrupt politicians to manufacture a EVM which help elections to be rigged.
Only fault in the system is counting / tabulation is done by physically entering votes from each EVM in to a PC or by manual tabulation . Here is scope for human error. This explains re-count errors like in the case of Maneka Gandhi, Chidambaram etc. May be BEL/CDIL should design a dedicated counting machine which will do away with manual tabulation and gives simultaneous Digital display and print out as the EVM’s are connected one by one to its port.
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From: AG, Bogus convener of Right to Cheat in Election group. Holder of beeyay, yamme and sundry other useless degrees.
This advt is not against churumuri readers and armchair analysts. This advt is to show that a few are taking all your sorry asses for a raid ever since you came of age and started voting. How?
Step 1. Ply people with alcohol, cheap sarees and other junk which gives maximum bang for buck. After all small change spent this way can be earned back thousands of times over after the election is won.
Step 2. Intimidate people in areas where you have less support. Use violence on the few who refuse to be intimidated initially. Others will get the message soon enough.
Step 3. Use all sorts of cheap advertising gimmicks like hoardings, face masks to temporarily influence the voter. After all they only need to be fooled for a few minutes and your job is done for the next 5 years.
Step 4. Promise short term things without any thought for its practicality or long term damage. After all after 5 years, most people who have moved on in life and wont remember anything.
Step 5. Indulge in fear mongering, rabble rousing speeches and raising emotions. People will become irrational and give you their vote.
Step 6. Do everything to keep government officials and election officers on your side. They are your real trojans.
Step 7. The age of booth capturing may be gone, but bribes and corruption is evergreen. Rely on it as much as possible.
Step 8. Forget about the ‘educated people’ who are fewer in number and dont come out to vote in number. They dont matter in the numbers game and they are too costly to fool anyway.
There is no solution to this problem. Learn to live with it.
(This advt is from AG, Churumuri isnt responsible for its contents)
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This Rahul Mehta has some strange set of conspiracy theories, right from MNC helping xians in preaching to sonia being Vatican representative.
He has mentioned the “possibilities” of rigging the EVM. fair and sound, but then again these permutation and combination theory can be extended to Banks , stock exchange and what not.
If hios trojans can wreck havoc with EVM so can to anything that run on the chip…sso do we expect to go back to manual thing???
What wil Inf(am)y Murthy angdi will do???
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The Election Commission on 1-8-09 (today) has invited all the doubting Thomases for a demonstration of EVM that would set their misgivings at rest “once and for all”.
It has reiterated that unlike the machines used by other countries, which are based on operating systems, the software in the EVM chip is one-time programmable and the programme is burnt into the chip at the time of manufacture.
“Nothing can be written on the chip after manufacture. The EVM in India is a fully stand-alone machine without being part of any network and with no provision for any input. In addition, elaborate administrative measures and procedural checks are in place to make the EVM doubly safe against any possible tampering or misuse. So, it is completely tamper proof,” it said.
It vindicates my earlier post !
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Are you sure that there is no way to reflash the chip? How do the fix the broken(software) EVMs? Do they discard them or solder new chips?
Instead of doing a show-and-tell why don’t they give away a few EVMs to tech schools and conferences and have them conduct hackfests where people will figure out ways of compromising these machines(or fail attempting it)!
Read this: http://osdir.com/ml/org.telecom.india-gii/2003-12/msg00083.html
ee postina title svalpa athi aaiytu!
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NAWN,
There is no way to re-flash ( Re – program) the chip. They have to replace the chip, if it fails.
It is like asking if the currency note can be counterfeited ? Yes it can be but it is easy to circulate and thus make it viable and profitable.
But in the case of EVM, first you have to duplicate the Physical features of the machine and have a replica of the Electronic Hardware made, then you should know the Circuit diagram of the EVM, You should also know which Micro- Controller (MC) is used, then you should see if a pin compatible Flash Version of the same MC is available, then you should write a bug free software which for all practical purpose works like a EVM but by just using the voting push button switch in a specific pattern initially, one can get a rigged result, then you should have a scores of pliable Election Commission officials who can hood wink everyone including the other candidate’s volunteers and switch the machine with the official one either before the start of the election or replace a pre- rigged EVM ( for this you should match the total number of voters in that booth) etc etc… It is virtually impossible. If you do not have trust in the whole system, then everything is possible. If this is so, there is a much easier way ! During the counting of the Votes simply take care of the Polling officer and count / tabulate wrongly to suit your choice.
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Or you could do this:
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Even in this scenario, it is not as simple as stuffing at one go a whole lot of pre-stamped papers in the evening after removing the legitimately cast votes ! You cannot keep pressing the button repeatedly to register that many additional Votes. EVM’s are programmed with a delay program between the votes and every time a vote is cast, the console with the Elections Commission official has to enable the EVM to register the next voter to cast his vote. All this is confirmed by an audible piezo Buzzer sound !
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Rajachandra,
Your explanation of the voting machine was excellent. Your idea for tabulation seems to be an excellent one too – maybe something the EC will incorporate the next time around (unless they have thought about it and have some good reason not to).
I guess that is the advantage of having something which is one time programmable. Even if there is a minor exploit, it can be adapted and made more secure to match upto the tricks of the booth capturers – even if they do find some exploit it will be corrected the next election – something not possible with the old paper ballots. The booth capturing reports of Bihar 2004 seem to have not occurred again (at least nothing reported in the news).
Each election the EVM can only get better, as long as the people in charge dont get carried away by the technology, stick to design simplicity and keep in mind the goal of the EVM (allow people to cast votes). In the United States, the problem with the voting machines was probably that they got over-complicated (with full operating system, networking and the works), were implemented by a private party and lost sight of their end-use – i.e. allow people to elect their representatives with no interference from someone else.
I would like Mr. Mehta to come up with a rebuttal of what you have written starting with the full algorithm and implementation of the ‘trojans’, how one can to plant his ‘trojans’ into the factory fitted one-time programmable memory and make sure the party of his choice wins. For now it seems that he was just playing on the fact that everyone loves a conspiracy theory especially in an area which they are not quite sure about. I wonder what if he turned up for the demonstration of the EVM and aired his hocus pocus theories.
A move back to paper ballots seems to be a step backwards in the light of what you have explained.
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It is amusing that a website like churumuri, that champions conspiracy theories left and center, is attacking those who do not toe its line as ‘conspiracy thoerist’!
The advertisement says EVMs ‘can’ be rigged. Can they, or can they not, churumuri? Why, instead of answering these questions, are you going after an individual who seems to have put, very transparently, his name and his money where his mouth is?
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The question is not really if an EVM can be rigged. Being an electronic device I am sure it can be done.
The question is really about if an election can be rigged in a largescale. And the logistics involved in doing something like that is so enormous that it can’t be done by a small group of people.
So, What EC should do is make sure the process of slot allocation for candidate and counting is transparent and is done in such a way that any agent of any party can verify the integrity of the process.
We don’t want to revert to Ballot boxes. And if a few EVMs do get rigged, heck, I know how ballots were rigged so blatantly (Even in Karnataka)!! We no longer hear of Booth capturing etc.
This system is easily more fair than the one it replaced – if it has flaws we need to improve, but not go back to a painful system.
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Ankit,
They cant. Read Rajachandra’s follow up to the article. If you think they can, put up what you have got.
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Thanks AG for your words of appreciation !
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‘Breaking News’
EC invites the petitioners in the supreme Court to demonstrate how the EVM can be manipulated.
It is going to be a great show!!!
Or will that be another ‘Hata Yogi’ walking on the water like in the seventies???
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Hi Folks,
I am Rahul Chimanbhai Mehta, the person who gave the newspaper ad. The ad is complicated, as a simple description would go in 8 pages and I cant afford that. An 8 page explanation is on http://rahulmehta.com/evm1.pdf and an 80 page explanation will come soon on http://rahulmehta.com/evm2.pdf
If anyone wants to understand how this tempering method can work, pls free to call me at 98251-27780 or email me your mobile number at MehtaRahulC@yahoo.com .
—
As per my being with BJP or LKA – I am not with them. I dont think BJP is anti-EVM. Because if BJP is anti-EVM, they can EASILY place 65 candidates as dummy independents and thus force ECI to have paper ballots. Because these EVMs can support only upto 64 candidates.
—
Pls note that I am NOT making an allegation that EVMs were rigged. I am only claiming that EVMs are easy to temper by people at top.
***
About my [b]proposed[/b] way to temper EVM
1. The EVM can tempered in factory itself i.e. the BEL CEO can manage to ensure that team lead in-charge of EVM’s software puts a tempered code.
I do not believe that EVMs can be tempered AFTER they are made. They can be destroyed or the data inside them can be destroyed by just moving magnet, but AFTER they are out of factory, they cannot be tempered. But tempering CAN BE done inside the code itself.
2. Also, the chip can be tempered to have a rigged code inside it. Do we know who makes the chip? Do we know who owns the chip making company? Do we know if Sonia Gandhi doesnt own that company? If a company is making EVM chip, wouldn’t US Govt or Sonia like to invest in that company? Now if the chip has tempered program as I suggested, then tempering is possible.
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Mr. Mehta,
Your reply has convinced me all the more that you cant show that paper ballots are in any way superior to the EVM. In fact it seem to be the opposite.
What you are talking about is more about the process and people than the EVMs – i.e. there is no real problem with the EVM itself.
It is very likely BEL and the election commission have the necessary quality control processes in place to prevent one person (say the CEO) from planting a trojan in the program for all EVMs (whether at the in the chip’s programming or in the memory as a resident program).
If EC is keeping this process a secret, by all means let us question it, the more eyeballs which stare at the process – the more clarity we will get on any possible loopholes or subversions possible.
As in any process step it is assumed as least some people who run the process are not corrupt and will do their job and do any whistle blowing if the process is being subverted. Again it seems from what you wrote you are questioning the people and process rather than the delivery mechanism (EVM or paper ballot).
Consider the following questions for paper ballots:
‘What if the person who announces the result after paper ballot calls the result in favour of his favourite party?’
‘What if the people tallying the final votes from paper ballots count in favour of their party?’
‘What if the people in charge of the ballots replace them by a large number of bogus ones?’
‘What if booths are captured or lower level officials bought off at a number of polling booths to tamper with paper ballots?’
etc.
Of course the answer to these is that here are processes for cross-checking which will ensure this does not happen – but this is the same case with EVMs.
In fact there are more questions and possibilities with paper ballots than EVMs.
With paper ballots it is much harder to ensure quality since the mechanism has to be deployed at each and every booth across the country.
With EVMs the quality control needs to be done at only few points high up in the chain. Tampering is difficult and any tampering (physically destroying it) will show up and a re-polling can happen at that particular booth.
And subverting it at that one point high up in the process too is not easy due to the unpredictability of candidates positions and numbers (an exploit for which you have given in your algorithm) – and any algorithm has to be common for all scenarios and could well end up backfiring (due to the possibilities involved any trojan will have to be based on high probability not on 100% certainty).
Making the EC publish their process is good. In reality they may or may not reveal everything based on their policy (openess = good because more people can view the process, versus, openess = bad because it might give ideas to some bad and powerful people). That is their prerogative, as much as questioning their openness with respect to process is ours. I personally believe they have to clarify the process from start the finish, while not revealing who are the people involved personally for each election.
Regressing back to paper ballots and questioning the EVM based on people and process issues (as opposed to issues with the voting mechanism) seems pointless.
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Mr. Mehta exposes his limited Knowledge about the technology when he says by moving an magnet data inside can be destroyed !!!!!!
His Comments about BEL CEO etc is an insult to the entire team of PSU staff who work on this project and the Election Commission who use them.
His comment about about Sonia/ US Govt.etc is not worth commenting about, it just shows the mediocrity of his thought process.
Though initially as Not A Witty Nick said i also thought – ee postina title svalpa athi aaiytu! ( ಕುಣಿಲಾರದ ಸೂಳೆ ನೆಲವೆಲ್ಲ ಡೊಂಕು ಅಂದಲಂತೆ !!), But after reading the Mr. Mehta’s post, i agree with the title.
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Anonymous Guy,
In case of paper, you need at least 2-3 criminals to rig one booth. So to rig 100,000 booths, you need lakhs of criminals. And with camera-in-booths, that becomes too risky for the criminals and they will need to bribe 1000s of local policemen, judges to get away.
Where as in EVM, by planting the code in ROM with the logic I described, 10000s of EVMs can be rigged in one go. The number of persons who create the FINAL build of the binary of the code will be just 1-2 or 3. All in all, with 5-7 people in BEL at top and in coding units, it is possible to plant wrong code in 10000s of EVMs.
Organization’s processes are good enough that guys in middle and bottom cant rig them. But when top decides to rig, the process are are of no use. (eg Satyam). If you have a PHYSICAL barrier that stop person at top, fine. Otherwise, guys at topc can easily place convinient people in middle who will let them break the processes.
Once lockbits are set, there is no way to read the code. BEL does not say if checksum can be read, and what kind of checksum. So we have no way to know what code actually resides in existing EVMs
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Rajchandra,
Pls read Indirsen Committee report on EVMs. They too acknoledges that powerful magnet can destroy data inside EVMs. That is true for ALL electronic devices. That is not my complaint — that would be a rare event. My complaint is someone at TOP planting wrong code inside EVM. It is possible and can help selected political parties.
—
Questions of Anonymous guy and answers :
1. What if the person who announces the result after paper ballot calls the result in favour of his favourite party?’
The party will have to bribe 20*5000 = 100,000 counting offices across India. And there are counting agents of major parties on the counting table
2. What if the people tallying the final votes from paper ballots count in favour of their party?
There is one counting room per assembly seat, called as counting head. So to get wrong totals, party will have to bribe 5000 counting heads. And each table also individually reports the results directly to collector. So if Counting Head makes too many large errors, he will get caught.
3. What if the people in charge of the ballots replace them by a large number of bogus ones?
The ballot papers have signature of presiding officer at back, plus they have serial numbers. And presiding officer can randomly not put some ballot papers. Also, the ballot boxes are scattered all over country , there is one room per assembly seat. Printing so many ballots would need staff of 1000s and would get caught.
4. What if booths are captured or lower level officials bought off at a number of polling booths to tamper with paper ballots?
This can also happen with EVMs. equal-equal. Also, I have proposed camera in booth (sensitive booths to start with) and using a stamper which stamps only once in 20 seconds.
All in all, you cant rig 100,000 booths with mere 10-15 guys at top. This is something you can do with EVMs – by asking coder to put wrong code in EVM ROMs.
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Pls read Indirsen Committee report on EVMs. They too acknoledges that powerful magnet can destroy data inside EVMs. !!!
God help this country !
Read:
http://www.pcworld.com/article/116572/busting_the_biggest_pc_myths.html.
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RM, your arguments are getting tenuous.
i think you are spending way too much energy in finding faults with it, rather suggesting ways to make better the EVMs.
#1. the evm could be fixed with a small printer that prints the symbol of party the voter voted for. the voter can visually inspect it and put it in a ballot box. to just print the synbol i think you would not need more paper than the size of a couple of bus tickets.
#2. there should be fast ways to read the binary at any time. checking can be multi module not just the entire code. that sort of multiplies the entropy and should really be unhackable. these preferably hand held devices could be designed by a different agency. and their distribution randomized independently of the randomization of evms.
to just print the symbol + additional barcoded info like EVM number+booth_id + date and time
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rajachandra ,
Can you come to MAIN issue? That EVM *can* be tempered in favor some chosen Party by putting tempered code in ROM in BEL or in Hitachi?
In my starting post, I made it clear that destruction of data by magnet or pouring water is non-issue, as in worst case it can only result in re-poll for that booth.
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Anonymous,
In paper ballot, what stops rigging is not “processes” , “cross checks” or “checks and balances”. All these buzzwords are useless at top level. In paper ballot, one cant rig 100,000 booths because number people he will need is too too large. Whereas in EVM, industrial scale rigging is possible in the way I mentioned with just 10 people at top and not even one at middle/bottom levels. And this is one way I found — who knows how many more ways EVM makers know. If BEL makes code, PCB design etc public, people will find 10 more and better ways of rigging.
Also, it is myth that booth rigging stopped because of EVM. In EVM too, one person and presiding officer can press button 100 times and do the same, no difference.
Booth capturing etc reduced ONLY because camera cost started decreasing in late 1990s and so EC was able to put officials with camera at sensitive booths. And so criminals’ risk increased. IOW, it was camera which reduced booth capturing etc not the EVMs.
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Obba kannadigana du:khada kathe:
This contentious exchange has destroyed my hope of becoming the second Prime Minister of India from Karnataka for three days: the first to be sworn in, the second to place a lock on instantaneously gained wealth, and the third to resign.
I am no phoenix, or as some Kannda papers say, “fonix.” Of course, the word can be written or pronounced in a way that will have us laughing for minutes. The Sanjevani is a wonderful locus of unintended humour through such misspelled and misused words. I think I read a few minutes ago something to the effect that Yediyurappanavaru Nijalingappanavaranthe badavara kanneeru horesutthaare. I am also tickled by the rousing thandava nrithya of mahaprana symbols all over the paper. Andahaage, “sooLege” “whore” yaake samvaadiyaagabeku? I am sure when the gaade surfaced in Kannada there were at least some “sooLes” who were just “narthakis.” Of course I know there are toponyms in Karnataka like “sooLekere” and “sooLebaavi.” Incidentally, I believe the area around Langford Gardens near Brigade Road was named “Shoolay,” as the English rendering of “sooLE.”
I hope God will answer Rajchandra’s prayer immediately. I also hope it will be by “sab ko sanmathi de bhagavan.”
AG: You be an emme.
In the KP, I mean the paper, the words “rally” and “rank” show up in extraordinary, unpronounceable ways.
If you are a kelasakke baarada badagi, instead of doing something harmful, you might want to read the readers’ responses to the articles and news items in thatskannada.com.
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rajachandra ,
Can you come to MAIN issue? That EVM *can* be tempered in favor some chosen Party by putting tempered code in ROM in BEL or in Hitachi?
My answer is simple ! EVM as manufactured by BEL/ECIL on the express command of the Election Commission can never be tampered in favor of any serial number -Push button provided on the Voting Console. Which party/ candidate this push button signifies in a particular constituency is incidental.
Yes ! If the EVM’s are manufactured by the likes of you and if the Elections are held within your party to elect your party president & functionaries then it *can* be tempered in favor some chosen leader.
Do not waste your time and money on pursuing a non-existent ghost ! Accept the gauntlet thrown by the EC and prove if you can prove the EVM has a telepathic mind of its own and can be swayed according to the wishes of Sonia /Rahul/ Obama /CIA/ISS etc. If one were to believe you , then Rahul would have dealt a MAYA on MAYA and the blue elephant would have been history !
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On Saturday Poll panel rests it case, ‘proves’ EVMs tamper-proof !
“The outcome of this exercise is that none of the persons, who were given the opportunity, could actually demonstrate any tamperability of the ECI-EVM, in any of the hundred machines put on display. They either failed or chose not to demonstrate,” it said.
Read the full story:
http://ibnlive.in.com/news/poll-panel-rests-it-case-proves-evms-tamperproof/98850-37.html
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sooLe haadara.
PTL correctly caught.
(hingella yaake aagutte even with our educated class anta R. Ganesh explains. IMHO, i think he hits the horikaNNu with this diagnosis)
precisely on this issue R. Ganesh explains…
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TS,
Good points. The point is the EVM is adaptable and can be made more secure if a weakness if found in it. Of course it can be make less secure if everyone in the system so want it to be.
If all the people are corrupt and want it the wrong way – paper or EVM will not help.
The paper ballot cannot be adapted or improved. If it is subverted by means such as booth capturing etc. no one can do anything to improve it.
As Rajachandra notes, I would rather trust the election commission and the management of PSUs to keep the EVM process safe than all the others to keep the paper ballots method safe.
I quote from the link above:
“The panel also said that former bureaucrat Omesh Saigal, who was among those who had raised objections against it, refused to demonstrate the points he had raised.
It said others who had petitioned before the various other courts did not turn up.
“EVMs have served the country’s elections well. These were introduced after long ranging political, technical and administrative consultations since 1979,” the statement added.
It also said that these EVMs are not comparable with ones used abroad.”
Where were you Mr. Mehta?
There does not seem to be any reason to go back to old paper ballot system.
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The Shathaavadhaani’s erudiiton is beyond me.
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Mehta,
I would have given a thought to your case, if not had read your conspiracy of sonia/CIA/pope etc….in the bhakshak, where you and tarle dwell.
Anyway, the EVM can be preprogrammed as you say in the factory, if and only if Cong and BJP symbol key is also hardcoded.
The next possible method is physical access of EVM before hand, that too require modifying the circuit board( difficult but can be done).
Either case is too elaborate to pull off, but then again cheddis are susceptible to fall for their own propaganda.
Take it easy, by the way I like your idea of recalling non-performing the elected representative. That is definitely required by the state of karnataka.
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@Mehta,
Your 8 page “explanation” note is full of tables & matrix that you built up on no. of candidates, Trojans etc. etc. But I was looking for the “code” which can rig an EVM. I tried looking for explanation as to why you used modulus function in the first place. Is that the pointer to the secret code?
Why can’t you write in a simpler language the way the code steals vote? Is that because you can’t demonstrate what you can preach because the theory is originally not yours?
Just to give you some food for thought, read this latest report from the just concluded “2009 Electronic Voting Technology Workshop” in Canada.
http://esciencenews.com/articles/2009/08/10/computer.scientists.take.over.electronic.voting.machine.with.new.programming.technique
In this case, US researchers successfully demonstrated the use of “result oriented programming” to exploit a software vulnerability in a Sequoia EVM that would silently steal votes when the machine is under operation. But even this method required overwriting the memory by inserting a cartridge in an unused port of the machine . It also required that the machine “not be rebooted from ROM” as that would erase the malicious programming stored in the memory(& not the burnt-in chip).
From what we have heard of the BEL machines, the programs can’t be overwritten on the chip although there is no such denial on overwriting the memory.
Further, do the machines have separate switch for “display power” & another switch for “rebooting”? Are the machines dispatched in booted mode but where “display power” switch is off to enable the malicious program to be working in perpetuity?
Mehta, give us your answers on these ones . And maybe Raj Chandra & AG too can help us with their detailed knowledge of BEL EVMs & Sequoia AVC Advantage EVMs.
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In the link shown above, the protagonists say ( similar stories have appeared in both the print and news channels in India as well) :
“We overwrote the computer’s memory and state so it does what we want it to do, but if you shut off the machine and reboot from ROM, the exploit is gone and the machine returns to its original behavior,”.
It is evident that in the EVM’s used in the above demo, users had access to the System’s memory thro’ a cartridge !!
Also either Election commission the PSU’s involved were part of the above confabulation at Canada.
So any comparison without knowing the systems in use in those advanced countries (!) with India EVM would be foolhardy.
Indian EVM ‘s are stand alone systems and no one has access to memory of the unit. The system has only Switches as input device and Piezo buzzer and Display system as out put device. You can neither add an external memory cartridge nor can you communicate thro’ an external modem as suggested above. Resident program also cannot be erased or re-written once fused by the IC manufacturer. As such no scientist / software specialist can hope to teach the EVM to do their bidding ! The whole hullabaloo is much ado about nothing !
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—-
Your 8 page “explanation” note is full of tables & matrix that you built up on no. of candidates, Trojans etc. etc. But I was looking for the “code” which can rig an EVM. I tried looking for explanation as to why you used modulus function in the first place. Is that the pointer to the secret code?
Why can’t you write in a simpler language the way the code steals vote? Is that because you can’t demonstrate what you can preach because the theory is originally not yours?
—————
The 8 page article shows how the person in charge who is tempering EVM can tell EVM code which candidate number should be favored. Once the candidate number is communicated, the EVM code can add 60% of the polled votes to him and reduce others’ votes by same number.
The US guy could write the code because he could buy or get one EVM. In India, EC does not give EVMs to hackers or anyone for examination. If EC gives EVM for cost, many hackers would have written 10s of ways to hack EVM inside out.
But now anyone at the level of MMS etc can always get source code or whatever they need to hack EVMs. Hence lack of source code only stops small guys from hacking EVMs, it does not stop biggies from hackies EVMs.
***
Rajachandra,
The US guy code hack the EVM because he got one legally. In India, a private guy would be thrown into prison if he is found with an EVM. So no one knows whether Indian EVM is hackable or not, as third party hackers never got a chance.
Essentially, you are looking at EVM presentation and demo, and concluding that EVMs cant be hacked. All this means is that presentation and demo were not rigged !! Does not say anything about actual EVMs
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Mehta syas:
In India, a private guy would be thrown into prison if he is found with an EVM. So no one knows whether Indian EVM is hackable or not, as third party hackers never got a chance.
It is like telling if you can tell the indelible ink’s composition, one can make it and/or know how to erase it ! Whole logic is perverse.
Ask your US guys first to unravel the secret code of COKE and PEPSI . It certainly would serve the humanity better .
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In case any of you guys are interested, the Bharat-Rakshak.com forum has a thread where Mr.Mehta’s claims have been debated in detail by some embedded systems guys. The thread is here (its long though with all sorts of details!):
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5008&start=0
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It is established that writing hardware trojan is possible and easy for chip manufacture, if he wants to. And it is also established that detecting or sniffing out hardware trojan is next to impossible. Pls read following links on hardware trojans.
.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardware_Trojan_(computing)
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Click to access vt.pdf
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http://securitytube.net/Demonstration-of-Hardware-Trojans-(Defcon-16)-video.aspx
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http://spectrum.ieee.org/tag/hardware+Trojan
.
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.
The youtube video shows that rigging EVM is far far easier than rigging paper ballot based booths. The circuit can be put in the factory weeks and months before poll starts. The circuit takes radio signals and adds votes to favorite candidates and subtracts votes from others.
Thus with 5 top people in factory and 5 technicians who have access to store room where EVMs are kept, in 2-3 days, they can rig 100,000 to 200,000 EVMs.
.
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