Why Ram Pyari couldn’t take her daughter home

SHAH ALAM KHAN writes from New Delhi: The so-called “irresponsible remarks” by Mani Shankar Aiyar on the Commonwealth Games have left the government and its beloved babus fuming.

The mainstream and the alternative media are buzz with outright condemnation of Aiyar, calling him anti-national and an unworthy son of this great motherland.

It all amuses me.

As an Indian, I know that the stakes of Indian pride on a global scene are too high to be meddled with at the last moment. The Beijing Olympics have showcased China to a global audience and we are told by the self-righteous hawks that we too should use this opportunity to showcase the might of India, the next super-power.

We are told that events like the Commonwealth Games bring with them employment and opportunities for developing and improving the existing infra-structure. The government sees the event as a boon for economic development and prosperity.

I won’t be wrong in concluding that we have been made to believe that the woes of the common Indian will be laid to rest on 3 October 2010 as soon as the games are declared open!

Alas!

This could have been true.

The darker side of the organisation of these Games is not only murky but plainly speaking dirty to the soul. Corruption, malpractices, poor quality and irrelevant budgeting have plagued the games in a big way. The Games will conclude with an approximate budget of Rs 35,000 crore (or $1.3 billion).

Imagine a sum of Rs 35,000 crore just to develop a showcase of might and economic wellbeing in a country where 47% of population earns less than $ 1.25 a day!

What can we call this?

Are there words to describe this inhuman and irrelevant extravagance?

I agree with those who argue that events like the Commonwealth Games shouldn’t be compared with governmental policies of public welfare. True but unfortunately it is not all about money; it is the irrelevance of thought of our policy makers which angers me.

It was heartening to see Rahul Gandhi talk about Kalawati during the trust motion in 2008. But can he imagine that how many more Kalawatis would have been added to the system ever since the inception of construction work for the Commonwealth Games?

I still remember Beena, the eight-year-old daughter of Ram Pyari, a migrant worker from Uttar Pradesh who had come to Delhi with her family to work on one of the stadia.

Beena had bone cancer and of course the family could not afford any treatment. Beena died in one of the slums which had come out as an illegitimate offspring of the Commonwealth games village.

The family wanted to take Beena’s body back home but couldn’t afford losing the provisional livelihood as the contractor wanted the work to go on a war footing: he had a deadline to meet.

Beena was buried in Delhi and Ram Pyari continued working at the stadia which is now ready as a symbol of India’s growing economic might—the ornament of the showcase which Suresh Kalmadi and his bunch of imbecile nitwits want us to appreciate.

I am sure the story of Beena and Ram Pyari is not the only one.

Many Beenas lie buried under the debris of what we think is the greatest sporting event in the country. Surely, the cost of organizing the games goes far beyond Rs 35,000 crore.

It is ironic that the logo of these games has been made to look like the Chakra (a symbol of India’s freedom) with four colors: red, blue, yellow and pink.

Each color has relevance and they represent the “trinity of values” which symbolizes the games.

Red represents a unification of humanity; yellow, a chance for the athletes to realize their destiny; blue promotes equality and pink, we are made to believe, adds an element of surprise and luxury to the Games and reflects India in all its resplendent glory.

On one of Beena’s visit to my clinic I had asked her which color does she like the best. It haunts me that she had abruptly said “pink”.

No wonder India’s “resplendent” glory could only be erected on her flesh and bones.

I am surprised why the “trinity of values” concept eludes our ruling class when it comes to prioritizing hunger, poverty and ignorance?

Why can’t the red represent an equitable distribution of resources? Why can’t blue promote social equality and social justice? And how about assigning the yellow color to opportunities and hope to fulfill the destiny of millions of common Indians who are otherwise too effete to even stretch their imagination beyond the need and fulfillment of daily bread?

It is indeed a matter of shame that we want to hold the Commonwealth Games even when we have yet to sort out more pressing issues which require an in-depth and humane allocation of funds and resources. I won’t be exaggerating if I compare this to Pokhran-II where an incumbent BJP government found it appropriate to conduct the blasts and gain instant middle-class popularity rather than mending India’s gaping economic and social wounds.

The showcase of Indian glory will also be a hallmark of core values which define our ruling political and bureaucratic setup – corruption, lop sided priorities and a determination to pose an untimely, unasked and unnecessary agenda on the common man.

I agree with Mani Shankar Aiyar that with the conclusion of Commonwealth Games on October 13, the hungry hounds will look forth to future programs of loot. Maybe Asian games or even Olympics- the final sporting spectacle, the final event for unprecedented plunder of my and your money.

In the meantime, Rahul Gandhi’s Kalawatis and my Ram Pyaris can only curse their fates. Their numbers will grow. Many more Beenas will be buried under the debris of “resplendent” glory and phony pride of India. Pinks will elude their meaning for her and for the likes of her; black will be the color of the day.

(Dr Shah Alam Khan is an orthopaedic surgeon at the nation’s premier medical college and hospital, the all Indian institute of medical sciences (AIIMS), New Delhi. Visit his blog: India and Bharat)

Also read: IPL’s thugs are no better than Maoists and Naxals

CHURUMURI POLL: Is Mani Shankar Aiyar ‘anti-national’?

CHURUMURI POLL: Good to lose the Asian Games bid?

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41 Responses to “Why Ram Pyari couldn’t take her daughter home”

  1. Vinay Says:

    Would the learned Doctor prefer that in addition to Beena, her father, mother and siblings die of starvation in UP instead of getting work in Delhi to built the stadium? If you go by the quasi-socialist logic that we should “focus on hunger and poverty” before “embarking on grandiose plans”, rest assured that poverty will increase!

    The only flaw in this whole CWG business is the massive corruption – and that’s because the money goes to fat slobs who keep it stuffed under their mattress or park it in a Swiss bank. But anything which is spent on stadia, roads, cleaning and other similar tasks is NOT A “WASTE”. The money gives employment to thousands of “Ram Pyaris”, for fuck’s sake!

  2. Chamaraj Savadi Says:

    Heart touching. I too have seen so many Kalavatis and Ram Pyaris. Same questions haunted me. They are still there and questions are still not answered. Poverty is a curse, and still worse is cynicism and indiffrence of our rulers.

  3. vishwa Says:

    Well said, Dr.Khan. If only the organisation of the CWG had been done in a humane and efficient way, it would have been a grand statement by India. But it is now just another of the scams- like fodder, mining,stamp paper, big projects- that are routinely perpetrated on Indians with countless voiceless victim. There is no reason to feel any sense of pride in the CWG.

  4. LP Says:

    btw, 35,000 crores is not $1.3 billion, but around $8 billion

  5. Kennedy Says:

    …a wasteful project. we do not have the character to host an event as big as this. can we stop spitting, can we stop urinating on the streets, et al. these are more important than spending thousands of crores. before we construct and allow the contractors and politicians loot us, we need to keep our cities clean so that people feel happy to visit India. spending money was the bait here the politicians. i am sure the event will flop. we need to set our house in order, fix basic issues before we can think of mega events like this, or a F1 track, etc.

  6. MS Says:

    Wouldn’t blame only Kalmadi. It’s impossible for one man to orchestrate a scam of such proportions. Surely even the PM has been aware of what’s been happening — considering that the stadiums are in the vicinity of Parliament?

    … Rs 35,000 crore for 11 days — more than 3,000 crore a day.
    :) HOw many schools and hospitals could’ve been built with that money?

  7. harkol Says:

    Leaving aside stupid airthmetic (1.3billion for 35K crores), this article does hit some points.

    CWG or even Chandrayaan are indeed be a vanity (and embarassment) for a nation like ours, considering the miniscule amount we spend on educating rampyaris.

    But, it isn’t really either-or kind of situation. Indian central govt. revenues are sufficient to support both Education and other prestigious/defence projects. It is the pilferage and the mindset of ‘give the fish’ instead of ‘teach how to fish’ that has screwed things for 3 generations already…

  8. Gaby Says:

    F*** The socialist angle but why the F*** should we have these expensive jamborees when they dont yeild any sports dividents to the country????

    Shouldnt compare this with China’s Asiad and Olympic efforts. Not that anyone is is here, but those exercises went on to make China a sports super power. Will we say the same for India after this meet? Not in our wildest dreams.

  9. Nastika Says:

    3 takeaways from Dr Khan’s rant:

    (1) Contractor was cruel in not granting paid-leave to Ram Pyari to perform the last rites of her daughter. Somebody has to take up this issue with Labour ministry.

    (2) Instead of staging CWG, Govt could have spent $1.3 billion on cancer research, find a vaccine and put an end to cancer (end misery of people like Ram Pyari).

    (3) Point ignored by Dr Khan: Ram Pyari could get the best cancer treatment in Delhi. Could she have in UP? Its another point that even the best wasn’t good.

    @Vinay:
    > starvation in UP instead of getting work in Delhi
    Maybe the doctor wants Govt to spend $1.3 billion in UP and prevent people coming to Delhi.

  10. vindy Says:

    …I won’t be exaggerating if I compare this to Pokhran-II where an incumbent BJP government ‘ ….. hmmmm… will a leopard ever ever change its spots ??

  11. Not A Witty Nick Says:

    If only side effect of hosting this event is getting better public transportation and primary infrastructure then we should make Kalmadi and his shishyas run Municipal Corporations, then probably as a side effect, we may get playgrounds and sports infrastructure.

    A tiny fraction of what this games is going to cost could have been utilised to create more infrastructure and public transportation, isn’t it?

    What good is these games when the Head of Commonwealth or any reputed athlete is not willing to come!?

    WTF do we even need the Commonwealth? Hell with their scholarships, let’s raise money ourselves and set up scholarships!
    Look, how badly is the UK treating Indian medical students.

    Just how much of the sports infrastructure created during the National Games that were held in Bangalore and Mysore(which had an ox as its mascot, which in the ads, cried hoarsely “Nandu, nandu, nandu, yEn avandu?) is still usable?

  12. Vinay Says:

    Gaby:

    Yeah, fuck the socialist fossils! I don’t know about ‘sports superpower’ and all that, but money well spent within India which generates employment is not a completely bad thing.

    Nastika:

    We can argue till the cows come home about how and where the money needs to be spent. For the urban middle class, an airport is a ‘good thing’, whereas for rural poor, a new railway station is a ‘good thing’ – different strata of society have different priorities. However, I have seldom heard a more nonsense argument than: ‘spend $1.3 billion, find a vaccine, and achieve a vaccine’! Seriously, how nice it would be if we could simply throw money at Cancer, HIV, etc. and solve them for good!

    In general, my point is: the primary issue here is leakage of funds and corruption. We’re not playing age of civilizations here – a Government can, and does, focus on mutiple things at once. This argument of “build schools and hospitals first, then do other things” is a tired cliche.

    This just reinforces my belief that India’s greatest problem is not ‘poverty’, not terrorism, not ‘Infrastructure’ – it is corruption. And let’s not fool ourselves into thinking that it’s only the Paaaliticians who are carrrrrapptu! It’s a bloody systemic problem throughout.

  13. prajwal Says:

    @Kennedy

    Your comment seems a little shallow as you speak of character of the people and then link it to spending on grandiose plans. While I agree that our character needs a “makeover”, I am not sure if the change reaquired is related to spending money. We all see more than our share of well educated professionals etc polluting and vandalising and urinating in public etc. So the assumpiton that spending on education and better housing and more projects for the poor is false in the sense that it will not bring any change whatsoever in our mentality which is by default to take everyone other than the self for granted

    @Dr Khan

    If you feel for the poor, would you care to explain why the doctors(your colleagues/fraternity/fellow doctors) charge such EXHORBITANT rates for common operations and procedures in fancy hospitals?Would you care to explain why educated doctors and surgeons refuse to work in government hospitals in villages? I do believe that it is not only the rich city dwellers who need medical care. Would you perhaps care to explain why doctors make patients wait for hours at a stretch for a 5 min consultation in which neither the diagnosis nor the course of treatment is explained properly? Isn’t that abusing the ignorance of the uneducated and the fiscally desparate? When medical care in India is becoming from one of the best most affordable systems in the world into a medical system in which good care is unaffordable to all but the millionaires/billionaires/crorepathis, thnks to the sea of private hospitals/doctors, is it fair to question the government’s interpretation of what is important on a world stage? When private healthcare practitioners who vastly outnumber the government practitioners have decided to make more profit and money and spend them on posh and useless unaffordable and ugly hospitals, is it fair to question the aspiration to hold an event on the International stage (the quality of the organisation is a different question altogether, that has more to do with the attitude of the organisers I suppose).

  14. vikram j Kulkarni Says:

    CWG business can only yield concrete people…. we are the same people who are proud to be oldest civilization and then we have deteriorated to this level that we are now almost stone at heart..

    our money could have spent in
    1. providing/improving basic facilities like drinkable water
    2. improving connectivity between cities
    3. improving irrigation system
    4. building schools, hospitals etc. in the remotest places
    5. building green energy systems for all cities.
    and this list can be extended for the betterment of humanity.

    next generation will curse you for this too. you are not doing things which are required instead you have indulged in the showoff money that could have spent for citizens betterment. now we going idiots for not spending money wisely. we are really idiots of IT age.

  15. Murthy Says:

    this is called – hottege hittilla juttige mallige
    good to hear that some learned ‘Khan’ doctor carries some heart in Dil li.

    ever since the open market culture started by Madmohan – the four corners of india evangelized by NRN (south), TATA (east) Ambani(west) and Defence budget(north) nothing else prospers apart from the headlines that these bourgeoisie vomit upon.
    and that has to be taken as employment oppurtunities by the rest and become krithaartha – specially owing their taxes and allegiances to Delhi and Mumbai.

    For a small example – when NRN started company with 8 people all were proficient and equally respected. Today when someone is injected/ejected out of company there is no respect since there is always someone else to come.
    This is what free market capitalism has brought – the class war. while a previous generation enjoyed respect today all are put into state of disorder and nobody is accountable.
    At the same time the upper class which has developed and enjoys undiminishing wealth with day trading of share bazaar with personal special accounts available with every bank and no need for them to work at all. ( day trading is banned in europe and other ‘democratic’ economies)

    It’s just insensitive baddi maklu class which this market has brought about – even if PM intervenes the class does not bother apart from making 20-30 storeyed buildings for wives and keeps.
    The class is just worried about money ,it’s baddi ,investment and how it can be increased. churumuri just had brought about topic of ripping off of insurance companies – this shows even high end games predominantly for the upper class vomitting – there is no rules ,insurances and regulations for workers.
    For the facilities and comfort of upper class every Tom, Dick and Vinay is working unto death; and there is not even basic facilities for workers!
    Even now most people advocate that due to these miscreant baddi maklu all the employment oppurtunites are created and hence country should be grateful to them.

    OTOH the UP – the densest populated area of the world -around 20 crores now- is a gift of congies to the nation where votebank was allowed to breed like mosquitoes. Stringent laws of population control in Ganga basin should be brought into effect immediately.

  16. Vinay Says:

    Murthy:

    It is this sort of nonsense quasi-socialist thinking that deserves to be puked upon. Have you socialists not fucked the country enough in 40 years, that you want even more of the same? I don’t know how old you are, but you seem to be 50 years or more. So it’s ok for you and your ilk to pontificate about the glorious socialist past of India.

    But remember, had it not been for companies like Infosys, Reliance, TATA, Airtel, and so on, the current generation would have been Naxalites or Maoists. Guys like you are the ‘Mullah Omars of India’. Tell me, what solution do you have apart from sitting on a bench in a park in Sadashivanagara and cribbing non stop about everything around you?

    What do you want? Ban private companies? Make the Government ‘create jobs’ in the public sector? Before you make another post about the horrors that capitalism is bringing to India, you need to give a solution to the issue of job creation. By the way, where do your children work – rather, where would you want them to work, you hypocrite?

  17. vikram j Kulkarni Says:

    @ Vinay
    instead of smacking others you could have opened your eyes and gave a second thought to what others are talking about. Murthy has some concern about things which you can never have. Sorry for your pathetic state. looks like you or your relatives are involved in the CWG business. surely your will behave like this if its the case. What you have given to india……. poverty. you have no idea that your ways show up a sign of metal illness. better change your attitude or you will suffer for whole life.

    CWG has number of bigger scams that India is waiting to listen about… tomorrow you will listen about them. wait an watch. people like you have hollowed India in all sorts of scams.

  18. Vinay Says:

    vikram j Kulkarni:

    “looks like you or your relatives are involved in the CWG business”

    And you, in addition to being a child molester (refer previous post), looks like your family has been in the business of looting the country in the socialist era of the 1980s. With increasing privatization, your family realizes that such loot is no longer possible and they have sent you to troll web forums in the hope that people will go back to the licence Raj days.

    “CWG has number of bigger scams that India is waiting to listen about”

    Sure, I agree – and if you had even the IQ of a pigeon, you would have read my posts completely and realized that I have conceded that the CWG is a huge corruption ridden thing.

    “you have no idea that your ways show up a sign of metal illness. better change your attitude or you will suffer for whole life.”

    Better stop molesting young children on your way back from work, or you will suffer for whole life.

    Anyway, why don’t you answer the questions I put above to Murthy? You will be considered a troll with the IQ of a pigeon and full of shit, till you actually provide solutions instead of simply making personal attacks using the anonymity of the internet. I am sick of retards glorifying the licence raj days. I ask all retards to provide solutions. Questions, again:

    “What do you want? Ban private companies? Make the Government ‘create jobs’ in the public sector? Before you make another post about the horrors that capitalism is bringing to India, you need to give a solution to the issue of job creation”

  19. Murthy Says:

    @Vinay
    40 years of socialism – i think you meant to say 50 years of congress.
    where is congress and where is socialism?
    Why do you put India into socialist scheme. There was no socialism. when was private clinics banned in India?
    when was everyone given security number?
    when was voting made mandatory?
    when was criminals evicted from contesting elections?
    when was Lokayukta heard?
    when was APMC regulated?
    when was rural panchayats and police regulated and brought to mainstream?
    when was shortsightedness of giving land ownerships to those who till it but luring them with money later to buy it become socialist?

    Just taking a stupid policy of License Raj – which never was socialist and justifying the open market shows your ignorance about competition which it creates – go to APMC market and see how our markets are . You will know what jobs the capitalism has created and what rotten competition it has created.

    Today people don’t consider agriculture as a job at all. Either dams/inter state rivalries take away water to build cities for these industries to barge onto those lands.
    So all fertile lands are lost. Only some capitalist politicians retain some agri land and make way for irrigation and ‘profits’.
    So people are cut off from one job and forcibly placed to work in another environment increasing figures of employments and other myriad miraculous concepts of economics.
    For example land owners of Bihar migrate to Mumbai just to become Taxi drivers – is this job creation or job replacement?

    “had it not been for companies like Infosys, Reliance, TATA, Airtel, and so on, the current generation would have been Naxalites or Maoists”
    What’s wrong with Marxism? If everyone reads Marx and learns labour rights then there would not be any Beenas and Ram Pyaris. They would be like Reka Maximovitch setting things right. Today I am really shocked about the state of womenfolk working in these environments and the way they are misused by douchebags giving names like sexual freedom or should i call it sex capitalism?

    “Tell me, what solution do you have apart from sitting on a bench in a park in Sadashivanagara and cribbing non stop about everything around you”
    Pleasant memories. But I am trying 3g in remote corners of country and seeing how limited is this revolution turning out to be with no one knowing that some vultures died due to mobile radiations when it was introduced. Can we plan for a better 3g ? God, how big a question it is for our capitalists to think about environment but can introduce concepts of “change plans everyday” of TATA and so on to increase the mobile users and reduce paper use of IDEA – while the mobile sets are fit for a year without any servicing/batteries being available later – adding to so much pollution again!

    “What do you want? Ban private companies?”
    I want regulation. I want heavily educated learned and paid eagle’s eye watching these buggers all the time like our Lokayukta with supreme power resting with them. Do you know why power is not given – simple – the foundation is so weak that without corruption nothing works! Name will be Satyam but work will be Sullum.
    Redefine dalals and business. abolish day trading. let no one make money sitting and speculating things just because Prime Minister is also from the same viewpoint- amounting to legal gambling. make basic facilites free and as a right for every citizen, stop building cities and migration due to it, use satellites to reach every nook and corner , make child labour severely punishable , abolish private education, re induct drop outs, adopt policies to diminish border disputes – these are some out of many.

    “but you seem to be 50 years or more”
    wrong prediction. but i normally don’t hesitate to take on 50+ years directly on their face because all top positions are reserved for 50+ senior citizens – note down the capitlaist competition here too. competition between generations!!

    “By the way, where do your children work ”
    Well, seeing the race which has tried every combination I feel that I would never produce any new DNA combination who would be new to the gene pool. So I think I won’t reproduce in this corrupt and over populated country but may adopt or help someone who is helpless in this system.

    About the CWG- whose wealth are they commoning with. How dare they use tax to such a magnitude without asking taxpayer?
    If sex tourism was to be promoted then they could have put up some show like Nita Ambani and Harbhajan did ; even Lalit Modi didn’t put a bad show either. I hear condom selling has reached it’s peak. What games are they playing by the way.
    Suresh Kalmadi is not a sophisticated guy- he will put up a show like a villain in old movies and media will create hindi dialogues 24/7 – yes, so much of competition and employment for a useless generation.

  20. Yella Ok Says:

    I think the point is lost here in personal debates. Critics of CWG are not necessarily “socialists” or “anti-liberalisation”. It is a question of what the priorities of the government should be.

    And in the context of India’s priorities and the government/public sector’s ability to execute, one cannot but conclude that these CWGs and olympics, etc are not really India’s cup of tea. If we had a governance system that could build maintain and utilize the infrastructure efficiently, then the CWG and the employment it generates would have been wonderful – because the investment would have continued benefiting multiple people – sportsmen, sportsadminstrators, various people involved in maintenance, etc.

    But the sad case is neither does INdia have the capability to build such infrastructure efficiently, nor to maintain and use it effectively in the future. In such a scenario, whatever the millions of $s that the CWG has consumed would have been better utilized – not necessarily towards cancer research by the government (not becos it is not impt, but bcos the govt would be inefficient) but towards other projects that would produce better incremental returns – like roads, healthcare delivery, primary education, sanitation, etc, etc. The important point is about “better incremental or marginal returns”. And I am sure that the Indian government has a list of multiple projects that are better than CWG to produce such “better marginal returns”.

    So,
    1) I will still hope that CWG is a success (unlike ManiShankarAiyar). no one is going to benefit by a flop show
    2) ANd vote down in the next 25 years any shows like asian, olymic, etc that would require tthe govt to build massive infrastcture and that sucks up money on projects with “lower incremental returns”

  21. Simple Says:

    Great entertainment. Really. The retorts, repartees, jibes, the potshots each one is taking at the other is of great entertainment value.

    Actually, i am laughing my guts out.

  22. Nastika Says:

    @Vinay, I was bringing out the hidden stuff in Dr Khan’s rant in form of takeaways. Do I subscribe to them? No.

    I am all for sports & infrastructure. In fact I would recommend India randomly pick some 15 countries, and organize a sporting event every year in every state of India, building required infrastructure.

    Coming back to License Raj, probably folks don’t understand it. Let me illustrate with biscuit example:
    As a businessman, you estimate good market for biscuits. Before you setup up manufacturing unit:
    1) Submit proposal to Govt.
    2) Govt (after setting up committee say withing few years) will estimate the biscuits market in the country (say 1000 packs per month) and find the current production (1000 packs per month). Since the market needs are satisfied with current production, your application for setting up manufacturing unit (and en employment opportunity for many) is rejected.

    Key aspect here is Govt’s estimate that the country requires 1000 packs per month? How did they estimate? You might argue that Govt’s estimate of market right. But only a fool can estimate the market correctly.

    How did the smart Indian business beat the license raj?
    1) Bribed the officer so that the estimate was raised, say to 1200 packs per month.
    2) Produce 10,000 packs and show only 1,000 in records (by bribing the inspector) and so pay tax only for 1,000. Dump remaining 9,000 packs at the distributor who will distribute in own way – loss of duty for Govt on these 9,000 packs.

    I just listed 1 ill of License Raj – there are plenty.

    Pity that none of the textbooks talk about this. I learnt from IIMC’s faculty, Raghabendra Chattopadhyay.

  23. Gaby Says:

    Vinay Boss- you are great at contradicting yourself- the operative words in what you write responding to my post is ‘ money well spent ‘. My submission is is this jamboree is not money well spent. No results in terms of a sports future for the nation, a pittance for the workers in the name of unemployment and millions stashed away by the corrupt builder-politician nexus- worse than the Soviet era- at least the managed to make the erstwhile USSR a sports superpwer when it existed.

    The Delhi CWG is a homage to socialism in its ugliest form- not a f-off message to it!!!

  24. Vinay Says:

    Murthy:

    OK, I concede that the period I was referring to was not necessarily ‘pure socialism’ – it all depends on how ‘socialism’ is defined. You call it ’40 years of congress’ – basically we are just debating with words here. Let’s call it the ‘dark ages of independent India’. It was a sad period where the nation was screwed over time and again.

    People moving away from agriculture and going to industry/services is a phase that all developing countries went through. Industry and services employ several times more people per unit of land than agriculture, and to lift ourselves out of the morass of poverty, we need to invest in heavy industry and services. This does not mean that you forsake agriculture and convert all farms to industry! That is not practically going to happen anyway. Biharis move to Mumbai to become taxi drivers because they earn more driving taxis than in agriculture. We need agriculture and industry and services, but the proportion of people employed in agriculture needs to shrink, without effecting the agriculture output.

    I said: “had it not been for companies like Infosys, Reliance, TATA, Airtel, and so on, the current generation would have been Naxalites or Maoists”
    You said: “What’s wrong with Marxism?”

    You amaze me. The naxals who go around blowing train tracks are intellectuals who are steeped in knowledge of ‘Das Capital’, are they? Marxism has been tried already. Been there, done that. A far more efficient and ruthless administration than the current Indian politicians in the form of the Soviet regime has given its best shot, as have others. I disagree with you – implementation of ‘pure Marxism’ is pie in the sky.

    No one will disagree with your points on regulation of the private sector. We are on the same page here. The telecom sector and TRAI has been a trend setter here. A model with competition and regulation is what we need across all sectors.

    Other points that you make, such as: “stop building cities”, “abolish private education”, are laughable. Basically your attitude is on the lines of, “let the government take care of things like education, rural employment, etc” . Sorry – this has been tried back in the ‘dark ages of independent India’. It is proven not to work. Even the poor today do not want to go to Government schools. They prefer going to small hole-in-the-wall private schools rather than a Government school. Read Nandan Nilekani’s book. I don’t agree with many of his views myself, but his book is interesting reading since it provides lots of insights into how contemporary India is running.

    I agree with ‘Yella OK’ here. I really don’t care much about the CWG games. However, I will hope that we put up a great show this time, since we already have both feet in it.

  25. Vinay Says:

    Gaby:

    Frankly, I don’t really care much about the CWG. However I want us to put up a good show now that we’re firmly into it – call me old fashioned, but National image does matter to me.

    But really, the fact that there is huge corruption cannot be an argument against the CWG. By that logic, we ought to stop doing any development at all since every project in India seems to be highly corruption-ridden.

    Another argument that I frequently hear is that we should “focus on poverty first” before “embarking on grandiose schemes”. Again, we are not playing Age of Civilizations here. A country can, and does more than one thing at a time.

    Arguments like the above smack of socialist bullshit. My opposition is to that thought process, which I see frequently whenever such an article is posted.

  26. Murthy Says:

    @Vinay –
    quite saner reply this time or was that saturday and monday difference :)

    “implementation of ‘pure Marxism’ is pie in the sky” – i agree.
    but that does not take anything away from Marxist victory. Almost all labour laws present today is it’s victory. when we can see police officers beating people ,stripping ,raping and making them eat shit ; the way they protest in jungles of bengal should obviously be different from what our Girish Karnad may protest against in a sophisticated manner or even how socialist marxist Gorbachev split USSR peacefully. These are bright examples of communist peace. while what the capitalist competition to be the super power led America to bomb Japan and produce a generation of retards.

    “They prefer going to small hole-in-the-wall private schools rather than a Government school”
    If you leave preferences of everyone in every sector then we will have to setup bar and restaurant in every college. If you nullify private ones and improve the govt setting then where will they go? from teachers to principals to students ,all will be absorbed to the same system.
    Even now govt schools impart education to maximum students.
    It’s only in the fashionable and cluttered cities where gap between govt and private education is found.
    The same should be the case for health related activities.

    ” Basically your attitude is on the lines of, “let the government take care of things like education, rural employment, etc” ”
    obviously and we will be the government then not letting votebanks rule us, else we will have to setup power stalls like Reddys , Muththappa Rais and real estate mafias to control them. Power will still be decentralized but how efficient is it?

    Just watch out how this CWG will go and end as. It will be another shame along with the lines of IPL.

  27. karihaida Says:

    Hmm.. the author is correct. ^&*% the CWG, i didnt get any cut.
    We should also ban all luxury toilet fittings. How can we allow the use of expensive toilets, when half the country shits in the open.

  28. Vinay Says:

    Murthy:

    In the overall scheme of things, the USA/Europe and other capitalist countries have done much much better on every front – human development, technology, poverty reduction, etc. etc., and you cannot take that fact away. If you cherry pick examples of Gorbachev against America’s atom bombs, you are being supremely dishonest. And remember, your so-called ‘American generation of retards’ has created the Internet, GPS, satellite communication, and so on.

    Marxism and communism has brought nothing but misery wherever it was implemented. USSR, East Europe, North Korea. China had to embrace capitalism to reduce poverty.

    Any neutral observer will point out that in India, only those sectors which have been exposed to competition and have a healthy dose of capitalism are doing well. I won’t list out the sectors, you know them well.

    “If you nullify private ones and improve the govt setting”

    You do not have an understanding of why India was screwed till 1991. You simply will NOT be able to ‘improve’ the ‘government setting’ as you call it. Actually, I don’t see any difference between what you suggest and what you call ’50 years of congress’. Old wine in a new bottle. You want private enterprise to be minimum, and the Government to take control of as many things as possible, and somehow ‘magically improve the government setting’.

    Your thoughts will take us back to the days when it took years to get a telephone connection. Though India still has several problems, poverty has reduced significantly ONLY AFTER LIBERALIZATION. The statistics speak for themselves. I reiterate, policies such as yours made India a beggar nation till 1991. Begging the US for food and aid, begging the IMF for aid… I really don’t see how your thoughts are different from those of the congress of the 70s.

    ***
    By the way, you haven’t touched upon the other points I made, notably agriculture and industry/services. I take it that you agree with those points?

  29. Gaby Says:

    Vinay, you are truly a closet socialist- maybe even a secret card carrying communist. You say you dont care about the CWG, you want your nation to put up a good show just beacuse we are into it – incoherence seems to be the name of the game. You want the State to have such a huge role in promoting the ‘ national good feeling’ and you say you are not a socialist!!!!

    If we cannot build a spirit of sports and winning in sports in the country we dont have any business having sporting mega events. The state cant even scratch its backside properly- never mind a very expensive event. If they were indeed serious about it they wouldnt have put a bumbling fool like Kalmadi in charge. We should certainly organise huge events- but we should learn to organise in the first place!!!

  30. Murthy Says:

    vinay –
    i think you are clubbing various things in proving your point but as you said
    “You want private enterprise to be minimum, and the Government to take control of as many things as possible, and somehow ‘magically improve the government setting’.”

    this is perfect. Huge Private players should integrate themselves into govt like Nandan did not for things like UID but for much better concepts like education and health. The private players have got huge following and are the most eligible decision makers.
    Give NRN/TATA/Ambani 35000crores to strengthen govt secondary education and universities. Tie up ISRO and IITs. I am sure they would complete atleast 25% with quality and transparency; which would be a great start else they are going to end on some funds.

    I would like to present a small anology here. In childhood I used to study two types of resources -natural and man-made. I was never able to understand when man himself is from nature how can he separate his resources? (please take ape to man as evolutionary science into account and not manasa putras of Brahma who were born from his mind! Oops)
    How far can capitalist ventures remain out of govt? it can be seen from Reliance venture into gas.

    The more weak govt is made the more we are disintegrating. But again this disintegration is becoming headache to current capitalist since they aren’t getting proper hiers.
    As an observation there is tendency growing everywhere in private enterprises to equal corruption of govt. Maybe it’s their internal plot to make people realize that everything is corrupt in India and so start using govt and vote?
    Quite a socialist approach I must say :)

    ***

    But again voting will produce another set of villains that they must understand . Until they don’t get themselves on the grill nothing will happen.

  31. harkol Says:

    Murthy:
    >What’s wrong with Marxism?

    You point out some very valid problems in our society. But, your thinking of solution is entirely off-track.

    Capitalism’s big problem is over consumption. It isn’t environmentally sustainable to provide same standard of consumption for the entire population of the world.

    To be equitable to all, the whole world will have to consume frugally. That is what communism is all about. It is indeed very idealistic and wonderful – if only it worked.

    The various experiments have shown that it doesn’t. Why?

    1. Animal Instinct : The basic need of animals to be one up on others to improve its (and it’s progeny’s) chance of survival.

    2. Differences in energy/drive/ambition levels of each person depending on his nature. Hindu Philosophy names them as Rajasa, Tamasa, Satvika with a varying mix of these. Any system should be able to accomodate these natures, or it’ll fail.

    3. Assuming people won’t have aspirations. In pure communist systems, the value of money is based on your privilege level. In other words – Where you are permitted to buy (a kinda license raj system). So, an army man is allowed to buy stuff far more cheaply than a ordinary citizen. Or a politician can do things that ordinary citizen can’t. This changes what people aspire for, but doesn’t change the fact that they aspire. If you need tranquility/equality, then there should be no competetion – which is only possible if people didn’t aspire to be ‘the best’.

    Capitalism adopts to human nature a bit better. But, it has its own problems. So, shall we say it is the lesser evil.

  32. Nastika Says:

    @Murthy
    > Huge Private players should integrate themselves into govt
    Did not get what do you mean by integrate? IMO, They will integrate, ONLY IF Govt invites them.

  33. Vinay Says:

    Gaby:

    “Vinay, you are truly a closet socialist- maybe even a secret card carrying communist.”

    Now you’re getting into big-time bullshitting.

    “Incoherence seems to be the name of the game”

    Occasionally one needs to use common sense – I assume I’m talking to someone who is old enough not to be told every single thing in as many words.

    Let me make it easier for you to understand.

    1. I was never very interested in CWG, from childhood. I have never even watched it. I would not have bothered whether it came to India or not.
    2. However, I was, and still am, one who cares for his country’s image. So now that we have the CWG here, I do not want it to ‘fail’ since it reflects directly on the country’s image.

    Is that SOOO tough to understand?

    “You want the State to have such a huge role in promoting the ‘ national good feeling’ and you say you are not a socialist!!!!”

    Pulling arguments of one’s ass is a game two can play. I never said, and I do not subsribe to the view that the state must have a huge role in CWG.

  34. Vinay Says:

    But if the state is indeed doing the organization of the games for whatever reason, does it make me ‘socialist’ to hope that the games will still succeed? The ‘state’ makes the GSLV rocket – the ‘state’ makes the Agni missile. So now, to prove my ‘capitalist credentials’ will Miss Gaby expect me to deride ISRO launches and the Indian missile program as well, and to ‘stop hoping that they succeed’?

  35. Vinay Says:

    “The more weak govt is made the more we are disintegrating.”

    No, we need less Government – the minimum required to regulate the private industry. It is not the Government’s business to run companies – they ought to regulate companies. No one is saying that the regulation should not be strict – it should be as strict as it gets. But this ‘old wine in a new bottle’ socialism is getting tiring.

    Murthy, I have a feeling that you look around you, see all the depressing stuff that’s happening today, and curse the current system as being responsible for it. Yes, it is true to some extent, but then you make the big mistake of assuming that the earlier system would be better.

    You cannot argue with statistics of poverty reduction since the man whom you derisively call ‘MadMohan’ liberalized the economy. Actually you are not even able to substatiate most of your arguments which you made initially such as people moving into agriculture, etc. etc.

  36. Murthy Says:

    @harkol-
    “To be equitable to all, the whole world will have to consume frugally. That is what communism is all about. ”
    Wrong. that is what recently developed anglicized ill concept of globalization is all about.

    I would like to quote here that Marxism is a theory which says a stage happens when capitalism blooms and balloons into uncontrollable limits; it is called the uprising and named as communism. communism is just an uprising at times (not to be equated with strikes of Kerala) and remaining is application of Socialism.
    It did happen when indians fought for independence and in revenge the capitalists parted unnamed subcontinent and some capitalists still advocate Churchill and Buckingham because even Nehru was close to Mrs. Edwina than Shrimati. Kamala!

    So taking the genre of Madmohan’s activities since 91 now capitalism is blooming into a ugly stage. One small example was govt unable to handle Ambani gas row.
    An example of private-private row is Modi vs richest body of cricket BCCI.
    So in next decade these private armies will be so strong that they will attain power to neglect anything and everything like Salman Khan who drives over anyone and kills any chinkara without any legal hurdles.

    “Capitalism adopts to human nature a bit better. But, it has its own problems. So, shall we say it is the lesser evil.”
    I think capitalism adopts to God’s nature much better – in the great hindu capitalist saga Mahabharata, Mr. Krishna creates classes and “regulates” the horses with ropes . He also used to suddenly appear with Balarama at times in unknown places to do so called miracles and guide and misguide Arjuna and at times question his fidelity . Since press was not present except for phenomenal editorial writer Vyaasa he was not grilled like Tiger Woods.

    “Hindu Philosophy names them as Rajasa, Tamasa, Satvika with a varying mix of these. Any system should be able to accomodate these natures, or it’ll fail.”
    Going towards completion of these sentences the much misunderstood and subjectively dealt with philosophy even creates classes and competition among human body parts separating head, breast, stomach and legs, only to conclude unless there is “regulation” of brain there won’t be any life forget balance or co-ordination.

    One big misunderstanding which people here have what I notice is terming enterpreneurship being a child of capitalism. Any communist country out of poverty will obviously have huge number of leaders looking like enterpreneurs. And they have all reasons and freedom to develop further because they have worked hard for it. The predictions of growth rate of china is a legendary sign of this.

    And how do we produce enterpreneurs here – private education – a fluent in english degree student immediately gets MBA paying some lakhs , suddenly becomes a enterpreneur – earning lakhs in his first job and wrting english blogs on his success and ruling over workers of any domain and maintaining some chicks on the desk spreading Mr. Krishna’s Raasa Leele quoting and misquoting Geeta and teaching the ‘Art of Living’ to his workers. How sweet is a life of enterpreneur in India!

    While we have lived all our lives on the open market goods’ , now we should take the burden of doing some work. Till you have regulation/God/great Leader you should never think about capitalism. When there is a great Leader he/she will have bits of capitalism regulated to work for socialism and that is what every system should look forward to.
    Whatever Veda says, the gaade stays truthful at – ‘Aalagaballavane Arasaguva’ .

  37. harkol Says:

    @Murhty:
    >The predictions of growth rate of china is a legendary sign of this.

    China is communist only in name and in its authoritarian dictatorship.

    >‘Aalagaballavane Arasaguva’

    In Yediyurappa’s case it is “aLu ballavane Arasaguva”!! :)

    Don’t know why you have a tendency to bring in Veda’s, Castes etc. into everything, but the above Gaade can’t be truthful. ‘aalu’ in this context is not a worker, but a Soldier – (http://kn.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E0%B2%86%E0%B2%B3%E0%B3%81).

    So, the Gaade you quoted implies – only a good soldier can become a king. Today this has no co-relation to reality anywhere in the world (except perhaps Pakistan & Burma)!!

    IAC, your original, profound philosophy and ornate language is beyond my limited grasp and comprehending ability. I leave it to others to agree or disagree with what you have to say.

  38. Nastika Says:

    @Murthy – Marx-Kerala, Nehru-Edwina, Modi-IPL, Mahabharata-Tiger Woods, Entrepreneurs-Krishna Leele-AOL, you are all over the place and have covered everything I know off !!!
    Chill man, take a break !!

  39. Gaby Says:

    Vinay,
    You are really funny.

    Honestly like you Iam not interested in the CWG for god’s sake its the stupid empire games . On the other hand I am not stupid to be bothered about whether the establishment makes a big splash at the 2010 edition- we wont be in the top three countries where England, Canada, Aussies, NZ and jamaice are the sporting powers, we have a Kalmadi heading things and corruption scams bursting at the reams. In any case a super nerd like you could tell a dimwit like me as to how exactly does your nationalistic pride expect the county’s image to shine at these dumb games.

    I suppose you would support me if I said other than Defence, foreign affairs, taxation and a moderate prescence in social welfare the State shouldnt really meddle in anything else at all.

    I really admire you for the effort you put in but then am reminded of the Orwellian edict of someone who doubles efforts after ahving lost sight of objectives- was it a fanatic……..

  40. Vinay Says:

    “how exactly does your nationalistic pride expect the county’s image to shine at these dumb games. ”

    Well, organizing the games and pulling it off is also something that has a question mark on it. From the beginning of 2010 we’ve been seeing doubts being raised about our capability to even organize this and pull it off! In the Olympics, it wasn’t just that China won lots of medals – it was also about the way they organized the whole thing, and showcased their journey to great power status. I am still hoping against hope that we can pull this off successfully – because trust me, if we don’t do that, we will have firmly established our reputation as a nation that overpromises and undelivers! That’s the only reason I *hope* that this event succeeds. Mani Shankar Aiyar is an asshole – seriously, the games *failing* does not benefit ANYONE at all!

    “….Orwellian edict … fanatic..”

    Yeah, I frequently fantasize about stringing a bunch of communists up – I’m fanatic that way… (Just kidding :-))

  41. Murthy Says:

    @harkol-
    I think religious hindu philosphies were introduced by you which I just expanded.
    Yes. ‘AaLu’ is a well built soldier and soldiers are workers too. Most roads in terrain and trekking trails are built by them and they even work to rescue children falling into open manholes. they cook their food in jungles and are learned in most of the works.
    If you leave out the fantasy of imagining Kings holding multiple wives , bear and shahjahan gadda with a rose and wine, I think in todays generation there are many soldiers who have attained supremacy . Kapil, Sachin, Arundhati Roy, Jayaprakash Narayan , CNR Rao, Seshan , Venkatachala to name a popular few in their own fields. They never had any Godfathers or Gandhian surnames.
    ornate – yes , but the topic needs such lengthy answers and i am no expert in lashing a proverbial compactness.

    @Nastika –
    well as I recollect PM has invited many players (NRN being one) to be part just to recieve a shy away response from them except for Nandan.
    and why should one wait for invitation I don’t understand. If they present a plan directly to PM they will surely get a lightening response.
    I normally get all over the place like churumuri . Only when navarasa get into it will it be tasty – they make it in front of high court quite well. I try to be less sensational but vinay asks a lot of questions you know.

    @Vinay –
    you want strict regulation and no government .and that too with minimum govt. do you expect a private body to look after regulatory work?
    We saw how PWC looked after Satyam.
    about your agriculture to industry movement I have already said it as replacement and a illusion of figures of economics . infact you need not assume that everyone was in agriculture before, who moved to industries later -they were “asanghatitha kaarmikaru” – disintegrated labourers . i don’t know when there are crores who are jobless without land ,why do you treat agriculturists to be jobless to move to industries – better give them infrastructure”(irrigation,storage,transport), technology and regulate agricultural goods prices reducing middlemen.

    Two reasons how agriculturists can be crippled is to make them not earn even with one crop –
    1. by sub standard fertilizers, hybrid seeds, throwaway tomatoes potatoes at APMC due to inflation and unregulated prices and ill storage etc – since for the other two seasons they will be jobless without water – making them totally jobless
    2. buy their lands for airports and NICE roads lured by Gowdas.
    and hence move them to city jobs which is also true. And this can be added to your economic terms as how industrial sector without helping the other sector has given shelter to unemployed ones and ofcourse neglecting pollution control.

    The victory of industrial sector would be only when it enters other sectors with ‘EASE’ . Except for computers no other industry has gone leaps and bounds.

    ***

    and I do like Gyabakka’s sentence –
    ” how exactly does your nationalistic pride expect the county’s image to shine at these dumb games. “

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