Tipu Sultan & the truth about 3,000 Brahmins

Supreme Court judge, Justice Markandey Katju, has used the example of Tipu Sultan to illustrate the point that Hindu-Muslim relations suffer from the rewriting of history to project Muslim rulers as intolerant and bigoted, whereas there was ample evidence to show that the opposite was true.

From a news report in The Hindu:

“Justice Katju said the myth-making against Muslim rulers, which was a post-1857 British project, had been internalised in India over the years. Thus, Mahmud Ghazni‘s destruction of the Somnath temple was known but not the fact that Tipu Sultan gave an annual grant to 156 Hindu temples. The judge… buttressed his arguments with examples quoted from D.N. Pande‘s History in the Service of Imperialism.

“Dr Pande came upon the truth about Tipu Sultan in 1928 while verifying a contention — made in a history textbook authored by Dr Har Prashad Shastri, the then head of the Sanskrit Department in Calcutta University — that during Tipu’s rule 3,000 Brahmins had committed suicide to escape conversion to Islam.

“The only authentication Dr Shastri could provide was that the reference was contained in the Mysore Gazetteer. But the Gazetteer contained no such reference.

“Further research by Dr. Pande showed not only that Tipu paid annual grants to 156 temples, but that he enjoyed cordial relations with the Shankaracharya of Sringeri Math to whom he had addressed at least 30 letters. Dr. Shastri’s book, which was in use at the time in high schools across India, was later de-prescribed. But the unsubstantiated allegation continued to masquerade as a fact in history books written later.”

Read the full article: Muslim leaders deliberately projected as intolerant

Also read: ‘Tipu Sultan left his last meal unfinished’

Did the ‘Tiger of Mysore’ really tame tiger?

CHURUMURI POLL: Tipu Sultan vs Kempe Gowda?

External reading: Girish Karnad, S.L. Bhyrappa, Tipu Sultan and others

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82 Responses to “Tipu Sultan & the truth about 3,000 Brahmins”

  1. Mahesh Vijapurkar Says:

    Once historians distorted the trust; the mass media does it now, putting Goebbels to shame. And the half-truths sometimes are considered politically right. All shades of politics have mastered this art.

  2. mounaprasad Says:

    This is just another secular exercise in futility. We have tons of official documents from mughal court historians who have recorded the “very peaceful behaviour” of mughal kings towards the hindus, their temples and their culture. Even in case of Tipu Sultan ask any Iyengar from Melkote why they do not celebrate Deepavali and you will get further proof of loving and caring nature of tipu towards the hindus. Also you may want to talk to some malayalees from malabar region to know more about this benevolent secular king. As it is always the case with secular brigade it is either half truths or out right lies that gets paraded as cardinal truth.

  3. Furious_Telangana Says:

    I recommend a noble peace prize for these peace loving invaders… eek. I meant secularists.

    This is pluralism being redefined here. The deterioration of history by a monkey who chose to see no evil.

    Somebody flip this secular eclipse.

  4. MA Deviah Says:

    Sorry to disagree. Tipu’s tolerant attitude towards Hindus in his kingdom was well known. However as the Coorgs and the Nairs of Wayanad will testify he was extremely intolerant when it came to non-Muslims in conquered territories. It’s completely wrong to project him as a benevolent ruler when he was not.

  5. Bangalore Batani Says:

    Secular TIPPU changed the name of Devanahalli to Yousafabad he also renamed MYSORE and Sri Rangapattana. yes he is secular of nth order

  6. vinay Says:

    ….in further research it turned out the tipu was a janivara wearing king ….what crap!!!!

  7. sisya Says:

    Let me google this for the Hon. Justice — Gazetteer of the Bombay Presidency: Bijápur – Page 443

    http://books.google.com/books?id=2RIIAQAAIAAJ&dq=tipu%20suicide&pg=PA443#v=onepage&q=tipu%20suicide&f=false

    duh.

  8. cp Says:

    The chequered and conflicting narratives of Dewan Purnayya’s life show that the history of that period is clouded by a Rashomon effect.

  9. My3 Says:

    Is the case of the Melkote Iyengars authenticated in the Mysore Gazetteer? If not then it is not true, as per the quote by the blog author.

  10. lp Says:

    if such falsehood is not propagated, then how will the chaddis survive? for more outlandish claims by the chaddis, the rediff discussion boards are a great source. and for a good laugh too.

  11. Jay Says:

    You guys also need to read these articles to know more about this crook:

    Captivity of Nairs.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captivity_of_Nairs_at_Seringapatam

    Captivity of Mangalorean Catholics.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captivity_of_Mangalorean_Catholics_at_Seringapatam

    Captivity of Kodavas.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captivity_of_Coorgis_at_Seringapatam

  12. murali Says:

    there is a ruined temple in wayanad, kerala. its popularly known as ‘sultan battery’ now. ask anybody in that area and they will narrate the story of tolerant tippu- how beautifully he ruined that temple, broke the idols and converted that place into lodging facility for his army..

  13. Sanjeeva Says:

    Few more things can be added to prove that actually it is the Hindus who were and are intolerant, where as Tippu and his kin have been from the time they landed in our country have been secular:
    1. They performed pooja of Hindu gods throughout the day including trikala sandhyavandanam.
    2. They constructed hundreds of temples all over India.
    3. Their palaces were full of Hindus.
    4. The Hindus destroyed all the mosques.
    5. The Hindus killed every Muslim they met.
    6. The Hindus looted all the wealth brought to our country by mughals.
    etc. etc.
    So, to atone all these atrocities of Hindus, let us keep a photo of Tippu in our homes and worship.

  14. Curry Hurry Says:

    Arjun Singh and Kapil Sibal also believe in rewriting history text books in the interest of Secularism. Should’t history be just history without any massaging ?

  15. Deepak Says:

    Tipu was a cruel Jihadi, is no doubt. He was a crazy despot. Browse through Kerala history and one will know more on his mentality. Just that he fought the British does not make him a hero. He fought the British to preserve his kingdom and not for our freedom!!!

    A lot of people are actually thankful to the British for finishing the tyranny of the likes of Tipu! Only the so called secularists and people who follow Tipu’s philosophy feel proud about him.

  16. matterwaves Says:

    I would have not worried if this were the product of the scholariship of resident secular intellects at churumuri or N Ram’s battery of naxals. What worries me is this Katju guy is a supreme court judge. Digest that you hindus!

  17. Chombuka Says:

    Mir Sadiq did the right thing and Tippu was vanquished.Tippu was a tyrant setting up harems everywhere and going after women.How can the son of that cheater Hyder Ali ever be called noble,just and secular?.

    Indian history needs to be rewritten and propagated.
    Kids should learn the truth and not falsehood from propagandists and jokers.
    Churumuri when i say Indian history i do not mean Hindu,I mean Bharath.
    Grow Up!!!.

  18. sahana Says:

    He was the only Ruler allowed women of Malabar(Kerala) to wear blouse/ cover upper part of body which was not allowed by Nairs/Menon land lords in Kerala. NO HIndu rulers did nothing against this custom..
    I think Nair & Menons were captured for their this sin..

    http://pazhayathu.blogspot.com/2009/11/kerala-women-topless-custom-in-19th.html

  19. tarlesubba Says:

    it was here at churumuri that i learnt from discussions between gouri satya and jeevaratna that tippu had two phases to his life.

    in the first phase, he was fresh from influence of madrassa education, which by itself is useless for anything to do with reality, prolly saw the world through words like kafir and believed in islamic exceptionalism. in the second phase under the burden of actually having to govern the sea of kafir citizens, he faced reality and learnt his lessons and that- the burden of reality, prolly washed out his useless education.

  20. harkol Says:

    While historians may go by recorded documents, the oral history, passed down from generation to another, has it that Tipu was only tolerant of Hindus when he became desperate in later years.

    In his younger days, he spoiled enough temples and drove islamic system all thru his realm. But, repeated loses to british made him realize the futility of rubbing the majority community the wrong way, and he made amends.

    So, both the stories of his terror as well as his benevolence are true.

  21. Faldo Says:

    It is true that one might not find too many recorded historical accounts of that period especially in areas not controlled by the British. However, most accounts do mention Tipu’s and his troops excesses in Malabar, Coorg and other territories that he set out to conquer.
    At the same time, there are some descriptions of his generosity towards other religions. There is a school of thought that feels that his acts of benevolence were for political reasons so as to not alienate the majority. Whatever the reasons, it is better to accept that there was a dichotomy
    and not go overboard in our attempts either to glorify or demonize him.

  22. amar Says:

    Though inter religion unity is a very important thing. You need to check out on Tipu and see what an intolerant ruler he was. Also duig into reasons for the temple grant. And do count many churches he destroyed. But as it true there are many sides of history.

  23. Alakh Niran Says:

    I am really curious to know if there is any proof to the “post-1857 British project”. Even if the story of 3000 brahmins is untrue, what about the stories of prosecution of thousands of Nairs of Kerala and our own Kodavas?

    Google “Malabar Manual” and please read the Tipu episodes. For the excerpts, please read the link:

    http://voi.org/books/tipu/ch04.htm

    (But a caution here: Malabar Manual was written by a British, and that too post-1857; so it could well be a British conspiracy)

    I remember the way in which the Odeyars of Mysore were depicted in the great Sanjay Khan’s serial “The Sword of Tipu Sultan” as effeminate and cowardly. But this can not be wrong depiction of history, because it is “SECULAR”, isn’t it?

  24. Narayana Says:

    Well Done Sisya.

    Sahebrige Benne Masale Order.

    refer http://voi.org/books/tipu/ch04.htm to know about what historical records conclusively prove Tipu as the most intolerant ruler of Southern India.

  25. Deepak Says:

    @Sahana: Does allowing women to cover up exonerate Tipu from all his cruelty??

  26. Narayana Says:

    Judge Sahebru is basing his judgment on book tiltled Islam and Indian culture
    By Mohammad Shujaat. As per Mohammad Shujaat Tipu was a great saint and other saints in his august company, no surprise here, Aurangzeb!!!

    Google book provides ample links on the books in 19th Century and old copies of Gazatteers. And that conclusively seals the argument. Tipu was scourge on humanity and fought for his harem and for Jehad. He was no freedom fighter.

    ***

    Why other’s? Let us hear from Tipu’s mouth.

    Here is the verbatim text from his letter to Runmust Khan on 5th Jan 1786
    (If you want to read from the book visit this link courtesy UCLA)

    http://www.archive.org/stream/selectlettersoft00tipu

    Page 228.

    Here is what Tipu Rascal writes:
    …….

    Immediately on our hearing of this circumstance, we proceeded with the utmost speed, and, at
    once, made prisoners of forty thousand occasion-seeking(^*> and sedition-
    exciting (”) Koorgs, who, alarmed at the approach of our victorious army,
    had slunk into woods, and concealed themselves in lofty mountains,
    inaccessible even to birds. Then carrying them away from their native
    country (the native place of sedition) we raised them to the honor of
    Islam, and incorporated them with our Ahmadij corps.

  27. amar Says:

    This topic is too pseudo-secular. Better disregard this. Tipu Sultan was a religious fanatic. He was certainly not a freedom fighter, just like Jhansi Ki Rani Lakshmi Bai was not a freedom fighter either.

  28. Nanu nane Says:

    @Deepak: i think the point is that if you are going to point out every mistake the man made, please go ahead add what the nairs did the low caste hindus in kerala too. its not that just would not let them cover up? they cut of the breasts of the ones that did. they did worser things too. if everything is to be written as it is, please do not forget what they did

  29. PEEYEM Says:

    There has been a systematic campaign going on by some dubious ‘scholars’ to tarnish the image of Tipu, so that he doesn’t get his due credit. Since this piece is about his alleged harassment of brahmins, i have just one question to ask. If that is the case then why Tipu’s brahmin Diwan Poornayya didn’t quit his job in protest, just as Sir Vishveshwarayya did, when the Mysore king decided to bring reservation system in the govt jobs?

  30. Narayana Says:

    preeyem,

    That is like blaming victim for the crime!!! Historical records show how Diwan Poorniah was constantly asked by Tipu to convert and also how Tipu ignored rape of Diwan Poorniah’s daughter by a Muslim.
    1799 Tipu got defeated because of the majority backlash or by victim’s revenge. Poorniah joined Hindu king. Isn’t that a great disapproval of what the Tipu rascal did!!

  31. harkol Says:

    Narayana:

    You stole my words. This is indeed what records indicate. Tipu is said to have offered Poornaiah to take his raped daughter in to his harem. He treated Poornaiah disrespectfully and over time poornaiah moved away from Tipu.

    However, he wasn’t appointed Diwan of Krishnaraja Wadiyar until death of Tipu. He apparently lived away for a few years from power centers.

    IAC, poornaiah is not the standard by which Tipu should be measured. That’d be one off case. But, there are umpteen number of cases (and temples in Dakshina Kannada included) which tell cases of Tipu’s intolerance, and there are indeed records of him supporting many temples.

    Only way to explain this paradox is – Tipu wasn’t unlike the today’s so called ‘secular’ leaders. He made a show of it even though he didn’t believe in it.

  32. Pagan Says:

    harkol, Narayana,

    I didn’t know about Diwan Poornayya’s daughter’s rape incident. Thanks for the info. I found some more info here –

    http://www.deccanherald.com/content/135632/statesman-survivor.html#

    “It is said that Purnaiya’s beautiful daughter was raped by some of Tipu’s soldiers while she was on her way to the Cauvery for a ritualistic bath.

    When a devastated Purnaiya ran to Tipu seeking justice, the latter casually skirted away the issue and added insult to injury by offering to take the unfortunate girl into his harem.

    On another occasion, in the open durbar, Tipu reportedly made an offer to him to convert his religion. A petrified Purnaiya mumbled something quickly and left the room in haste. All these events and the simmering discontent perhaps impacted his decision to leave the troubled fort of Srirangapatna just three days ahead of its final storming by the Allied forces and the killing of Tipu in 1799. ”

    So much for Tippu being secular and tolerant. But then, it is also possible that the author Vikram Sampath could be a communal, right wing Hindu fascist.

  33. Anonymous Guy Says:

    So cheddis claim is Tipu’s tyranny replaced upper caste/Iyengari tyranny.

    Whats new in that for that time and age?

  34. Pagan Says:

    On Churumuri blog always read the comments. Don’t just read the article.

  35. Deepak Says:

    @Nanu naane – We’d like to know more on the “worser” things. If going by you argument that Nairs deserved what Tipu did, can you conclusively say that Tipu did not harm others during his onslaught? Can you justify his pillage? Would you next say that coorgis did this and that ahd hence deserved the treatment from Tipu??

    The point that I’m trying to make is that Tipu was neither a patriot or secular by any yardstick. He was a crazy despot working to expand his sphere of rule and further his religious ideology!

  36. My3 Says:

    Anonymous Guy: “Iyengari tyranny”.

    Where the heck did that come from? Articles cited by you would help the rest of us to read up on “Iyengari tyranny” and free us all.

  37. Nanu Nane Says:

    @Deepak: I am not trying to say Tipu was all good. Everyone with power at that time did bad things. Almost every king of that era fought the British to save his kingdom and not for his people. How is Tipu different from any of them?

    http://books.google.com/books?id=FnB3k8fx5oEC&pg=PA291

    http://sih.sagepub.com/cgi/reprint/9/2/187.pdf?ck=nck

    http://www.nairs.in/acha_a.htm

    read the part which says untouchability.

    Forcible conversion is bad. But killing people for just walking on the same road as you is worse.

    ***

    The above links are from wikipedia.Could not verify them. Sorry. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste_system_in_Kerala

  38. twistleton Says:

    See each time a ruler comes to power, EVEN TODAY, they sign a secret agreement which categorically states that:

    The ruler shall reserve the right to commit atrocities against any person or group of people, for any reason or sometimes, if so be the whim of the ruler, for no reason, and for any number of times he may so wish to do in order either to preserve his position or simply to amuse/entertain himself. This agreement does not rule out the possibility of said ruler being a sadist xenophobe, and the benefit of the doubt in such cases shall rest with the ruler who shall be said to have the purest motives and be allowed to make sacrifices for “the greater good”.

    This agreement particularly insures the ruler from any laws in the future that may act on the ruler in retrogade, this clause is meant to preserve the ruler against the folly of people who believe in blasphemous things like democracy and judiciary.

    The ruler shall also reserve the right to laugh maniacally before he sets forth on a mission of sensible blood shedding. Although the author of this piece humbly begs the ruler to not do so within the hearing of the media.

    I declare: enough with these pointless pointifications, they are making my brain pain; off with your heads!

  39. Deepak Says:

    @Nanu Nane:
    >>”How is Tipu different from any of them?”
    Exactly. There is no reason to pontificate him as a patriot and as a secular

    Lets keep the topic to Tipu sultan and not to casteism. Not that I’m uncomfortable with it, but that ends up as a digression from the topic.

  40. Pulikeshi the Last Says:

    AG–

    I am troubled by the raging Iyerish tyranny in Karnaataka Sangeetha. It seems to be reasonably free of Iyengari domination these days.

  41. Nanu Nane Says:

    @Deepak: sari bidi. as long as we agree that most of the others were the same.

  42. Iyengari Says:

    “Iyengari tyranny” ?!!! excuse me! stop uttering gibberish! i am an iyengari from melkote. u better shut up!!

    ***

    @pulikeshi… if u ppl cannot learn sangeetha for shit, at least don’t poke fun at others! ppl like u are unfit for anything!! grow up.

    my 2 cents

  43. Anonymous Guy Says:

    Dont have to get your janiwaras in a knot. I was talking about the past. Just like you guys were talking about Tipu without having lived under his rule.

    Ok let me paraphrase – Tipu’s tyranny replaced upper caste (including Iyengari) tyranny. That is not even strictly true either, how can we account for Shamaiya Iyengar?

    If things were Ram rajya for everyone before Tipu, all those who converted to Islam would have come running back, which obviously did not happen.

    Whatever you accuse Tipu of being, he fought well against the British, something the Mysore Maharajas he replaced cannot be accused of doing immaterial of any trivia written anywhere on the internet.

    When you accuse a figure from the past of tyranny and being a crazy despot based on flimsy evidence, be prepared to face the same charges about your own ancestors. The past may not be as clean and uncomplicated as you want to make it out.

    PTL,

    If the British imposed their own tyranny, you may have been bemoaning the domination of one of the other group over qawali.

  44. Anonymous Guy Says:

    Iyengari from Melkote,

    Can you get the people accusing the sher e mysuru of being a crazy despot to shut up too? Or do you have too still harbour some personal grievance about the erstwhile Sultan and want to talk about it?

  45. Pulikeshi the Last Says:

    AG–

    A good one. I am worried about qawali taking over, tgo. We now have people like Mukthaayakka writing gazals. Kanavi also has done it.

  46. sisya Says:

    >>Whatever you accuse Tipu of being, he fought well against the British, something the Mysore Maharajas he replaced cannot be accused of doing immaterial of any trivia written anywhere on the internet.

    “He fought well..”? like how? He fought three wars against the British. He got his ass whupped in each one of them, ceded all the territorial gains (and then some more) that his dad had made over 2-3 decades and finally got killed in the final instalment? And in any case, the British were the lesser of the two evils – somewhat akin to Mullah Omar vs Karzai vis-a-vis the US. If the Mysore Maharajas before or after Tipu didn’t fight the British as hard, it is probably because they figured out ways not to. On balance, the Maharajas probably did much better (for themselves and for the state) with the limited autonomy they had under the British than Tipu did while venting his spleen.

  47. Pulikeshi the Last Says:

    What are some of the standard works on the topic? Are there any extant
    eye witness accounts? Historiography is a relatively young discipline in India.

    Was or was not Islamicising the Deccan part of Tipoo’s agenda?

  48. Curry Hurry Says:

    “all those who converted to Islam would have come running back”.
    It’s a one way street. Wrong way is punishable by death via fatwa.

  49. twistleton Says:

    There is just one tiny detail people seem to be forgetting: Tipu was/is not a citizen of the Indian Republic, eh, so let us desist from judging him from that vantage point. Easy enough? Otherwise we’ll have our task cut-out bringing individual historical criminals to book :D

    Think about it. The government may end up setting up a Pre-historical and Historical Crime Tribunal. And my caveman ancestor would like to say a thing or two to his neighbour, about letting pet sabre-toothed tigers loose….. #$%@ philistines

  50. MA Deviah Says:

    Just for your information, after Tipu Sultan was taken out, by the way he was killed while trying to escape from the fort, many of the converted Coorgs wanted to re-convert. The Coorgs at that time did not allow them to re-convert but however allowed them to return to their original homes and land. Even today there are Kodava Muslims and Kodava Moplahs living in harmony in Coorg. Many stayed back in Srirangapata and continue to live to this day in a place called Kodagarahalli (This last sentence is not a confirmed fact, if anyone can confirm this I will be grateful).

  51. Doddi Buddi Says:

    I think it is time someone produce more evidence of this issue. May be Girish Karnad can write another book or a play, perhaps?

  52. Anonymous Guy Says:

    MA Deviah,

    Thanks for informing about how Tipu was killed while trying to escape from the fort. Heard this from someone present there or more internet analysis?

    Lets take your word that the converted Coorgs wanted to re-convert. Since we cant get to the bottom of this, can we ask the Kodava Muslims and Moplahs today if they want to remain Muslim? Do they wish to come back if given a chance? Please do some asking and let us know the answer. You can ask them their own story of their ancestors desire to re-convert. Maybe we can draw some conclusions on your historical assertions after that.

    Curry Hurry,

    “It’s a one way street. ”

    Looks like fatwa is not the only reason. MA Deviah has provided one more reason: “The Coorgs at that time did not allow them to re-convert but however allowed them to return to their original homes and land”.

    Maybe many didnt want to convert back? Why would someone from the lower castes want to convert back to a lower caste person again?

    DB,

    Maybe SL Bhyrappa should write more about Tipu beyond aavarana. Both the socialist and religious fanatic can face each other and whip the dead horse one more time.

  53. Narayana Says:

    AG,
    More factors for your analysis.
    Some converts to Islam had married multiple wives and it was not possible to convert back into any other religion because polygamy was forbidden.
    Some converts to Islam had married child brides and it was not possible to convert back into any other religion because child marriage was forbidden.
    Upper caste converts had lost their sanskar and hence could not convert back.
    Lower caste converts relished their minority status and freebies they got in things like Haj subsidy and wanted to enjoy freeloading.

    Most had lost the “tip” to “tip”PU and without the tip they would always be known as supporters of no “tip” religion. They could not find the tip to attach back to their you know what and hence stayed back.

    If you have missed the whole discussion here.. The discussion was not why people did not reconvert. Discussion was does Tipu deserve the role model status secular India is trying to invent ignoring the massive evidence that Tippu was a savage who has to be given anonymous sea burials like other jehadis are given these days.

  54. Gaby Says:

    Narayana’s comment carries the seed of wisdom- all religions are essentially methods to carry forward patriarchal values- a low caste man is forcibly converted to Islam by a tyrant and the first thing- or at least among the first things he does is to marry several wives or a child bride or possibly even several child brides, – as if that was the only reason he converted?

    Whils some religions might be worse than others is there any major religion fundamentally diffrent in its treatment of the female half of humanity!

  55. Anonymous Guy Says:

    Narayana,

    I dont see how the excuses you make factor in any analysis (which BTW I am not attempting).

    Who forbid polygamy? At Tipu’s time, there were Hindus of all castes who had multiple wives and/or mistresses. It was just a matter capabilities rather than any proscription by authority.

    Child marriage was forbidden by whom? Definitely not Hindus be they upper or lower castes. At what age were your great-great grandparents married. I am willing to bet it was not 21 and 18. So what is special about Islam and child marriages.

    Okay agreed on the upper castes – lets be more specific, most likely brahmins, some kshatriya castes, some vysyas and possibly some ‘creamy layer’ shudras. The majority who converted wouldnt have had a complicated sanskar to lose.

    Lower castes – my point exactly. You call it freeloading, they may call it freedom. Anyway they were freed from being ‘lower’. Or cant see the point from a lower caste?

    Funny point on the ‘tip’. So you open the pants and check the ‘tips’ of anyone who claims to be of your caste? I thought the thread was enough for that. Anyway lets move on, on this ‘point’, I think you made it just for the sake of it.

    The whole discussion here was: “Hindu-Muslim relations suffer from the rewriting of history to project Muslim rulers as intolerant and bigoted, whereas there was ample evidence to show that the opposite was true”

    I think this is evident in your ‘analysis’.

  56. twistleton Says:

    @Narayana

    That’s it, i’m dragging Tipu’s ghost to the ICC, the ICJ, the UNHRC and NATO, just in case….

    Honestly, I don’t think the present generation are even aware of Tipu Sultan; seriously, their GK is abysmal. Just ask around and let me know if you come across one teenager who knows or as you suspect idolizes Tipu.

  57. Gaby Says:

    In rolling England most youngsters think Churchill is the mascot dog of an insurance company.

  58. Anonymous Guy Says:

    twistleton,

    Dont know about teenagers, but here’s one guy who seems to idolize Tipu:

  59. dev Says:

    mangalorean writes: tipu is the butcher of mangalore catholics he is worse than Hitler at least 4 million jews survic=ved in europe but this scoundrel tipu decimated all catholucs in mangalore and only 3000 returned others got converted to islam because of tipu b ,,,,d’s cruelty he is not fighting for india he fought to make himself rich and kill all hindus and christians or convert who feared him go read the history of malabar how u call him sultn his father was a soldier in mysore raja”s army and he used dishonest ways to take over the kingdom so a usarpur and hotler is called today great indian warrior and patriot the family got what they deserved actually they shd have been sent to andaman to eat grass for the cruelty shown by tipu shit ali what a sham

  60. Murthy Says:

    @Gaby
    “Whils some religions might be worse than others is there any major religion fundamentally diffrent in its treatment of the female half of humanity”

    what do you want from religion Gaby?

  61. Chandra Says:

    Compared to the Hindu maharajahs, such as those of Travancore, Tipu Sultan was indeed vastly superior.

  62. raqib Says:

    Mr.Deepak, Mind your language, your words clearly says, u dont know about tippu, He is a real freedom fighter, His kingdom is his nation, If some enemies enter your HOME, n they attack your beloved one, That time what you think & fight, You fight for nation or for your home……

  63. indian Says:

    great, tippu not a freedom fighter ya right, he was just amillitary officer he could have eaisly ACCKNOLEGED BRITISH SUPREMACY
    THEY WOULD HAVE OVERWHEMLY become his friends ,he could have forcibly convert all of them and made mysore a muslim state, but he did not do this yes he is traitor great some crap written by a british official and the one who directly or indirectly supported british are great freedom fighters ,but the one who sacrifised himself is a traitor instead of being proud to have a great indian like him you people term him traitor, read this
    In 1791, some Maratha horsemen under Raghunath Rao Patwardhan raided the temple and monastery of Sringeri Shankaracharya, killing and wounding many, and plundering the monastery of all its valuable possessions. The incumbent Shankaracharya petitioned Tipu Sultan for help. A bunch of about 30 letters written in Kannada, which were exchanged between Tipu Sultan’s court and the Sringeri Shankaracharya were discovered in 1916 by the Director of Archaeology in Mysore. Tipu Sultan expressed his indignation and grief at the news of the raid, and wrote:
    People who have sinned against such a holy place are sure to suffer the consequences of their misdeeds at no distant date in this Kali age in accordance with the verse: “Hasadbhih kriyate karma ruladbhir-anubhuyate” (People do [evil] deeds smilingly but suffer the consequences crying).
    He immediately ordered the Asaf of Bednur to supply the Swami with 200 rahatis (fanams) in cash and other gifts and articles. Tipu Sultan’s interest in the Sringeri temple continued for many years, and he was still writing to the Swami in the 1790s CE.

    and as of waynad they are natives who say tippu is great not a traitor and its common citizen who says it

  64. Viran Says:

    “Tipu Sultan was a freedom fighter and a tolerant ruler.”

    Who says so?

    Fans of Tipu

    But if so, why does not he mention anywhere in his autobiography that he was fighting to free India and that he was a tolerant ruler?

    On contrary, he revels himself in his mass conversions he forced on people of Malabar and Coorg. He prided himself on being a jihadi who fought invading infidels like Marathas and British on one hand and rebellious infidels like Coorgs and Nairs.

    If a man is tolerant, why does he forcibly convert people and revels that he had converted lakhs into Islam? Is that how one crushes a rebellion?

    Remember that even Muslims of South Malabar had fought Tipu’s troops in 1785-1789 period. That alone proves that conversion program had not led to a decline in rebellion.

    Most important point – Tipu unlike his calculative father Hyder Ali, was an unstable person who made decisions under influence of base passions without any forethought. He can be at best be described as passionate fanatic while his father was a cynical opportunist.

  65. Seethi Says:

    Well. My grandmother used to say that our forefathers used to be Nampoothiri brahmins of North Kerala, till the ‘secular’ Tipu came in with his troops, cut off a few proud heads and converted the rest.
    Today I am a Haji because of that. A few swords did that wonder.

  66. Salman Says:

    Tippu Sultan never ever was communal but tried to expand his empire during his rein. He fought battles against Britishers mainly and also against small kingdoms to make his position strong enough to fight a decisive battle against Britishers. Tippu is the one who expanded the Mysore Kingdom and made an empire or else it was just 10 kilometers in diamater or 100 km2 was the Mysore kingdom if you don’t belivev me please read the history, that just few kilometers from Mysore, small Palegars used to rule independently small patches of land. During expansion there were causalities on both the sides but it has nothing to do with the religion.

  67. Mohsin Manzoor Says:

    he was one of the great warrirous who was the kohinior of india

  68. borg Says:

    1. Anonymous guy raises a valid point. If Tipu forcibly converted Hindus & christians to Islam, why didn’t these people convert back after the death of Tipu?. Who was stopping them?. Why did they continue as Muslims?. The new rulers were all Hindu ruling under British authority. No one could have stopped them from reconverting back.

    2. Any person can be demonized if you try hard enough. Tipu is being demonized because he fought wars & the wars killed a lot of people. The hindu kings before Tipu did not fight wars?. People did not die?. Did you know that the Poligars had conflicts with the Wodeyar dynasty much before Hyder Ali came into the picture?.

  69. bmniac Says:

    Borg answers to your query
    In malabar anyone who tried to reconvert was killed . 50 years back I had long conversations with those who had been very young in the 20s (moplah rebellion) I had read many old records and chronicles as well. Conversions ended in murder. The well known Ramasimhan murder case was after we got freedom. The criminals got away. I knew one prominent muslim family who wanted to reconvert but did not do so out of fear.
    Reconversion has been a problem in the last few hundred years because repeated onslaughts had rigidified the system. (Please recall the attempt of a large flock of Kashmiri muslims who tried to reconvert and the intransigent Pundits of Benares!
    2 By and large Hindu kings fought by rules. Ordinarily the armies fought ; civilians were rarely attacked . Mass killings came to India with the Asian barbarians and conversions accompanied them after the muslim invasions .A careful reading of detailed chronicles and contemporary may help. Of course Hindus had their tyrants too. But no mass murder or conversions

  70. Renjith Says:

    Please don’t make us buy ur seular crap. Tippu killed tens of thousands of hindus, converted helpless people from Malabar to Islam using force (Talwar or Topi), raped our women, killed our children. If you doubt me,come to Malabar and ask any old Nair, or go to Mangalore or even ask any kannadiga hindu…

  71. DG Says:

    borg ,either ur mentally challenged or you have no understanding of the entire forcible conversion process.Please read books on how forcible conversions take place then bother typing here.

  72. sridhar.V Says:

    If Tipu had converted many malabar brahmins or Hindus forcibly to islam why did they not convert back to Hinduism after his defeat in the 3rd Anglo Mysore war or post his death . One has go through his proclamations to understand his ideals . Let not religion come in the way of accepting Tipu as freedom fighter and also there is no doubt about his tolerence to other religion. A church was built in Srirangapattna during his rule . A testimony to his secular thinking . Let us not as an Indian insult a freedom fighter and a martyr who till the end never traded his self esteem for his life . If Akbar is regarded as a secular Emperor then Tipu is also secular .

  73. Shahid Says:

    Tipu fought wars and those wars led to the killing of a lot of people…..He fought against Malabar Muslims,Marathas,Kerala Hindus, Muslim NIZAMS ………and most importantly the British……In these battles,a certain number of temples may have been destroyed for sure……but on a recent visit to Mysore,I saw a huge Temple that one local said was built by Tipu. Now my friend who subscribes to the RSS ideology was in the bus with me. It was he who asked a local about that building (which looked like a mosque) ………but it turned out to be a Temple. He was surprised and remained quiet(it certainly must have destroyed many of the ill notions he has developed becoz of RSS connection :D) . Tipu was not a saint,but he was not an evil person either.

  74. Shreekar Says:

    Just an idle thought – what would have happened if Tipu Sultan had won the various wars with the help of the French and lived up to a ripe old age?

    Would we be reading Churumuri today in French?

    Would I be performing my 5 namazs every day?

  75. Vande matharam Says:

    Hi all ,
    Pls dont try to explain these ppl, these ppl dont want to knw real fact, the so called secular and rationalists think themselves as protectors of country but not really…even today they go to the extent wherein they tell Indian army to put down weapons and surrender to terrorists coz they r minority part of India and they can do any thing..they only understand if any terrorist come n rape their daughters and kill their family members then they will realize the thing that make their ass whupped.
    today’s muslims pls understand the person whom u ppl r supporting had killied and converted the rest were ur own ancestors.

  76. Sridhar Says:

    War always caused death and destruction . So Tipu alone cannot be faulted for many human and property loss . Moresoever Tipu’s primary enemity was only towards the British . Yes he had fought against Marathas only to safegaurd his frontiers and regain the lost territory . He had infact tried to strike friendly relationship with Nizam and Marathas . If he was only worried about his own welfare he could have sided with the British and oppose other indian rulers. He saw evil in having friendship with the foreign power . There is no record to prove that Tipu initiated war . It was always thrust on him . Even the invasion of Kerala was to forestall British from cutting of his Mangalore port access . Its unfortunate that when British unleashed terror and brutality to quell 1857 uprising not many Indian rulers opposed the British but spported them . Hardly very few patriotic people regardless of their religious faith fought against the british and eventually lost .The main casulaities were women and children more than the combatants deaths . They were systematically targeted and killed without any mercy . Let’s not conveniently forget facts and comment about a person based only on his religious faith . Atleast he had the guts to stand up against British to protect his state’s freedom .

  77. WooHoo Says:

    Colonel Wilks says in his book.
    “The advancement of Shamaiya to be minister of the post office and police in 1779 has been stated, and we have seen that the influence of this office had even a wider range, and more perfect organisation than can readily be apprehended by the subject of a Free State. The secret terrors of his active administration had even been felt by his colleagues, and produced a jealousy which sought for his removal. It was sufficient for this purpose to give obscure hints of the good fortune of his family, the means of accumulating wealth, and the power to expose every secret but their own; these insinuations were not long concealed from the emissaries of Shamaiya; but at what period he began to contemplate revolutionary plans has not been ascertained. Shortly after Ryder’s death, he perceived the early certainty of ruin, and veiled his projects with augmented zeal in the service of his sovereign, whom he of course accompanied to Mangalore. His brother Rangaiya was at the head of the department at Seringapatam, and the name of the relation is mentioned, whom he sent from Mangalore to concert with his brother, the plans of proceeding. At the period of
    his arrival Singeia, the provincial head of the department at Coimbatore, was on business at Seringapatam, and with Narsing Bow (Choukee Nevees) a sort of muster-master, paymaster,
    and town-major, was called to the secret consultations. The Hindoo Raja was to be nominally restored, and Shamaiya, Rangaiya, and Narsing Row, were to form the administration; the last-named person was included, on the ground of his undertaking the actual execution of the plot, for destroying the killedar, with Assud Khan, and the whole of his faithful battalion, and seizing the gates and the treasury. The communications with the English army which was to ascend at
    the period agreed, was left to Rangaiya, through the medium of Singeia at Coimbatore ; all the Hindoo, and a few Mohammedan commandants of corps were gained) and sworn to secrecy; the English prisoners were to be released, and placed under the command of General Matthews; and Rangaiya had for the first time visited the English prison, about ten days before the intended explosion ; had enquired into their wants, and desired them to be of good cheer. It was deemed necessary that an instrument should be prepared of sufficient authenticity to convince the English of the nature and extent of the conspiracy, and to this the seals and signatures were obtained of the persons already named, of the commandants of corps, and of Souberaj, ostensibly the representative of the imprisoned royal family, but in fact a descendent, by the female line, of the late Dulvoy Deo Raj, (stated on the authority of Seyed Mohammed Khan). It is not clear from the narrative whether this instrument ever reached the English army, but the intelligence from Singeia at Coimbatore gave assurances of that army being ready to advance at the concerted notice whenever it should be given. The narrative states the attempt to have been premature,
    but that Rangaiya considered farther delay to be Hazardous, on account of the number of persons intrusted with the secret, and the danger of treacherous or accidental discovery; he therefore pressed Narsinga Row to strike the blow, and everything was prepared from nine o’clock on the
    24th of July 1783. Seyed Mohammed states eight months’ (lunar) after his appointment, which would bring it to about the first week in August. (I take the date in the text, from the journal published in “Memoirs of the War in Asia, 1789”; but adverting to the restraints under which that
    journal was kept, it may not be exact to a day)* It was the pay-day of Assad Khan’s and some other Mohammedan corps, he would be present to superintend its distribution to the corps in waiting and without arms at the Cutchery, where the killedar always attended before the appointed hour; the
    treasury attendants, the corps of pioneers employed in moving the treasure, a body of jetties who had the guard of that part of the palace, were all provided with daggers to commence the
    work with the destruction of killedar, and his attendants ; while large bodies of Hindoo peons were ready to fall, in every direction, on the unarmed Mohammedans. Matters being thus arranged, Seyed Mohammed Khan on returning from the hall of business to his house on the night of the 23rd, was accosted in a whisper by an obscure individual, who said he had something of importance to communicate ; and on hearing his tale he was enabled in the course of the night to seize a despatch prepared for transmission to the English army ; to secure the principal conspirators, and to adopt measures for defeating the intended explosion. Narsing Row made a full disclosure in the hope of pardon, which he did not receive ; and all the minor agents confessed to the degree of their actual information. As an example to intimidate, a considerable number of conspirators were immediately executed, by the horrible process of being loosely tied to an elephant’s foot, and dragged in that state through the streets of the town. Tippoo’s orders were required for the disposal of the heads of the conspiracy, and on the arrival of these orders, Narsing Row,Souberaj, and the heads of corps, and of the jetties, were executed. Shamaiya was sent in irons to Mangalore, and with his brother Rangaiya was exposed to every contumely in separate iron cages, where they are said to have persisted to the last in denying their participation in the crime; although the torture extracted considerable treasures. Many adherents of their family continue to this day to interpret all the overt
    facts, into a pretended conspiracy contrived by the other ministers; on which most improbable supposition, Narsing Rao must be considered as the voluntary victim of the calumny. Shitaub, the former killedar of Seringapatam, superseded by Seyed Mohammed, was seized on the first alarm, simply on conjecture ; and was released at the close of investigation on a perfect conviction of his innocence. Neither evidence, nor the unlimited use of the torture, had directed the slightest
    suspicion towards the imprisoned Ranee ; it is just possible, that she might afterwards have been induced, by the political rivalry to which we have adverted, to assume a disguise in
    her confidential conversations with late Sir Barry Close, and with the author ; but the absence even of suspicion, when so strongly excited by circumstances, added to her uniform and consistent assurances, convinced them both, of her entire ignorance of every part of the correspondence conducted in her name. But that conviction must not be understood to impugn the reality of Tirumala Rao’s projects for the subversion of the actual Government. Long before the usurpation of Hyder, the Hindu prince had been kept in ignorance of acts purporting to be his own, as profound as was the ignorance of the imprisoned Ranee in 1783 ; and simulated authority had been the familiar habit of the Court. ”
    On a fair consideration of all the authentic facts which
    have been disclosed, we must ascribe to the conspirators at
    Seringapatam, a precipitancy rendered necessary by
    circumstances ; and a more confident assertion for the encourgement
    of their friends, than they were justified in making,
    regarding the immediate advance of the English army ; for we
    cannot ascribe to Tirumala Rao, the imprudence and impolicy of
    having encouraged that expectation, at the particular period
    when he knew the English to be restrained from action by the
    armistice of Cuddalore, when Colonel Fullarton was preparing
    to march from Trichinopoly (as he did on the 4th of August),
    in the opposite direction of Sivaganga. In what manner the
    conflicting pretensions of Tirumala Rao and Shamaiya, might in the
    event of success have been adjusted, it may not now be necessary
    to conjecture.

    “Such, however, were the two circumstances, namely the execution of Mohammed Ali, at Mangalore, and the detected conspiracy at Seringapatam, which induced Colonel Fullarton
    to infer a disaffection in Tippoo’s army favourable to the success of his enterprise ; but there may be ground for questioning the accordance of this inference with the opinion raised by some
    authorities to the dignity of an axiom, that every detected conspiracy, instead of weakening, has a direct tendency to strengthen the hands of a despot ; and exclusively of these two examples, there was certainly no sufficient ground for crediting the existence of defection, sufficient to form the ground of political action. The confidence of Colonel Fullarton was better founded, in officers eminently distinguished for talents and professional experience, and troops of an excellent quality,
    although containing too large a proportion of young soldiers. He had arrived, as we have seen at Coimbatore, on the 26th of November, and on the 28th, two days before his intended
    advance, he received instructions from plenipotentiaries, duly authorized, on their route to negotiate at Tippoo’s Court, directing him, not only to suspend his intended operations, but unconditionally to abandon all his conquests and to retire within the limits possessed by the English on the 26th of the preceding July.”

    Thus failed the attempt. It is only necessary to add, by way of explanation, that Shamaiya, who is mentioned above as the leader of the insurrection, was a Srivaishnava Brahman of Sulakunte, in the Kolar District, and that his real name was Shama Tyengar, his brother being Ranga
    lyengar. Though Wilks describes him as a human monster, there is reason to believe that he was an active Loyalist from the moment the usurpation hardened into a fact i.e., from the time that Haidar began to consolidate his position from a de facto administrator of his master’s (Kartar’s i.e., Sovereign Lord’s) kingdom, as he called it, into his own de jure rule of it. When Haidar
    virtually dispossessed the Raja and displaced him in the public eye, Shama lyengar fell away from him and joined that band of Hindus and Muhammadans in the State who desired to end the unnatural condition of affairs set up by Haidar and what is worse, which Haidar tried to perpetuate in his own family. In the executions that followed the betrayal, it is said that over 700 families, who were described as the adherents of the Raja in this connection, were put to death. Several fled out of the country while others went into self-chosen obscurity to avoid further troubles.

  78. murali Says:

    Tipu Sultan’s ceremonial sword bears an unabashed admission inscribed on it: “My victorious sabre is lightning for the destruction of the unbelievers.” He publicly claimed himself to be a descendant of Muhammad and his avowed aim was “to restore the religion of that prophet by destroying or proselytizing all heathens and infidels.” At the center of his personal seal that validated all his public dispatches the Arabic inscription reads: “I am the messenger of the true faith;” around the edge of the seal a couplet in Persian reads: “From conquest, and the protection of the Royal Hyder, comes my title of Sultan; and the world, as under the sun and moon, subject to my signet” (Dirom, 1794, p. 251). His own writings (Sultan-ut-Tawarikh and Tarikh-I-Khudadadi) speak eloquently of his religious fanaticism .
    this shows the secularism of Tippu, and his followers in congress

  79. Sridhar Says:

    Various decrees and official proclamations issued by Tipu from 1782 to his amildars and military commanders amply reflects his ideals. Even his own adversary and sworn enemies will swear for his bravery and chivalry. Tipu appears to have earned the love and affection from majority of his people going by the evidence of his tenure as Sultan . Nowhere in the history of the world a tyrant ruler was allowed by his own people to rule for a long period . Tipu ruled for 17 long years during turbulent times . As much as we respect Rani of Jhansi , Tatiya tope and other freedom fighters of the early 19th century Tipu too deserves equal respect and honour for his contribution to Indian freedom struggle. Its not required to have affliations with any political party to appreciate a freedom fighter. .

  80. gururaj Says:

    Not many people know that NCERT is under instructions since 1980 to “secularise”school texts -to downplay the glorious&noble past of hindu kings.

  81. PRAKASH WATWE Says:

    Congress paid Historians, kick them out of India, Shame they sell their pride and truth for some position and few rupees

  82. Sridhar Says:

    Very unfortunate views about a person who made a huge impact on India’s Freedom struggle.

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