In seven years’ time, Sam Hormusji Framji Jamshedji Manekshaw will turn 100. For 36 years now, India’s first Field Marshal has been the icon of heroism for his role in the liberation of Bangladesh in 1971. But now questions are being asked; accusations are being hurled.
First, Lieutenant-General J.F.R. Jacob, who was the chief of staff of the Indian Army’s Eastern Command during the Bangladesh campaign, gave an interview to Karan Thapar on April 30, in which he claimed “taking Dhaka did not figure in Manekshaw’s plans”, suggesting that it may have endangered India’s great victory.
“Sam unfortunately had a very short experience of war. He was wounded in the early stages of war; unfortunately he was not able to command a battalion,” General Jacob has said, in the context of the government’s decision to give the Field Marshal back pay amounting to Rs 1.6 crore for the period since his retirement more than 36 years ago.
Now, Gohar Ayub Khan, son of General Ayub Khan, has hinted, again in an interview with Karan Thapar, that Manekshaw sold India’s 1965 war plan to Pakistan. In other words, that India’s most respected soldier was a Pakistani spy. Khan has not named the Field Marshal, who now lives near Ooty, but he has dropped four hints.
That he was from the first contingent of the Indian Military Academy. That he was commissioned in the fourth battalion of the 12 Frontier Force. That he was wounded in Burma in February 1942. And that he attained the highest rank, including the Military Cross. These hints point to only one man in the whole wide world: Sam Manekshaw.
So is Manekshaw a hero or a villain? Is Gohar Ayub Khan , a former Pakistan foreign minister, only peddling his book? Is the army establishment jealous of Manekshaw’s recent riches? Is a sensational media committing a grave injustice by airing such charges without giving a chance to a very ill Manekshaw to respond?
churumuri 
Dear All,
I know I am wading into this with my eyes fully open–some how Sam came off as a ‘desk warrior’ to me:)
I doff my Mysore Peta to J.F.F. Jacob. IMHO Gohar is an out and out liar–in case of Sam it was more the case of ineptitude! That’s all. I don’t think the army establishment is jealous of Sam’s back pay.
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Another book on war. Books on war are story sold to the public with fluff. Whoever is good in story telling wins.
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I am of an age that I followed the Chinese incursion to India, and the Indian army’s poor show in containing them thanks to Krishna Menon’s ineptitude, his obstruction to equipping Indian army and treating the generals as his ‘chai’ boys. Sam it was told at that time was particularly badly treated and when he resisted, he was banished into the back room of the army until he was brought back for the Bangla. This it was rumoured did not find favour with the rest of the army’s top brass.
Krishna Menon close to Nehru was almost single handedly responsible for Chinese grabbing Indian territories as the left-leaning defence minister assumed that his Chinese comrades would do nothing of the kind to their Indian comrades!!
for my money, I have more faith in any one who opposed Krishna Menon, and that includes Sam.
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Believing what the Pakistanis say? No way (look at what they say about Woolmer). About Gen Jacob’s assertion that Sam was wounded in the war and had short experience of war- General Eisenhower who was the supreme commander of the Allied Forces in the Second world war has NO WAR EXPERIENCE AT ALL. He was a desk-bound general most of his life until Gen Marshall appointed to him to that position. Despite Gen Patton’s and Gen Montgomery’s comments about absence of his war experience ( both these generals were supreme battlefield tacticians), Eisenhower devised war strategies that resulted in the successful invasion of Normandy and defeat of Hitler’s army in Europe an year on. History has been very kind to him because of this.
Gen Ayub Khan bungled the war and banished in disgrace. His son should now write why he father was so stupid despite his western friends suggesting to him that his army would be routed in a war. It is often said that pakistanis’ brains are located at their bottoms!
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Sam Manekshaw – the military’s Sachin Tendulkar?
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Manekshaw and Indira Gandhi had serious problems with each other. IG, in fact, was every concerned that he would oust her in a coup. But he once told her, that as long as she did not interfere with the armed forces, he would not interfere with the government.
Ayub Khan was a philandering nincompoop. His trysts with famous Lahore courtesans are too well known. Even the white paper by the Pakistani govt, which was leaked 2-3 years back lay the blame on him.
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this is outrageous, nothing but book publicity by mr khan.
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ask that idiot paki to spell S-P-Y!
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@Rs.20,000 – it’s obviously a joke!
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I have a Neighbour who retired as a Col. He is a very proud soldier and takes pride for working under Gen Jacob. Few months back he told me about his troup ( he commanded the Para) . How Jacob had stratergised the East Pakistan War.
Very high regards for Gen Jacob and his ability to command.
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Ranga has recalled rightly of V.K.Krishna Menon’s failure as Defence Minister. In fact, the three heads of defence forces had even threatened to quit, because of VKK’s interference with the forces. This Gohar’s statement is mischievous and meant to create a bad impression of the Indian Army and Gen. Sam, about whom we should be proud of.
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I have read accounts from retired service chiefs how they were called to VKK Menon’s residence when he was the Defence Minister and then made to wait for hours. It was well known at that time that Sam was the sole top brass who resisted the left-winger VKK Menon’s machinations, and paid the price for it.The whole country rejoiced when Nehru sacked him obviously to save himself from the axe falling on him.
Since when any Pakistani told truth. Gohar the son of a disgraced dictator tried to smear Sam who I know all the Pakistanis hated at that time. We should all salute Sam, for me I give him a special salute for standing up to that left-wing talker VKK Menon.
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A lot of fluff.
Questions that pop up are:
1. Are Karan Thapar & Lt. Gen. Jacob, despite their facade, have some private axe to grind against Field Marshal Sam Manek.
2. Is Karan Thapar the son of Gen. Thapar whose relationship with Sam Manek was not the best, at times?
3. Are JFR Jacob, Karan Thapar & Go-har Ayub Khan ganging up against sam Manek
4. Is there any truth in the allegations against Sam?
It is too late in the day for all parties (nations & persons) concerned to dig into the past and create fresh wounds. Let bygones be bygones.
moh a math
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Pingback: The Acorn » And MPs can’t criticise the Army Chief?
res.sir
as i knew today si birt day of field mafshal sam manek saw so may know where does he stay now? or how may i know his contact?
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well
Yet another controversy…a foreign minister doubting the very might of a general whose strategic and operational plans took india to a convincing win. Not to mince words more i suggest the politicians should prefer to shut up or else discuss such topical issues in media openly. Lets have a discussion on this egress and it shall be conspicous. Well it takes a strong heart to be on the battlefield, dear foreign minister and i can vouch for it as am facing one. As for pakistan getting into controversies is nothing unprecedented. A victory over us by maligning the general may just turn out to be a futile one. A great honour would be to try any stunt now openly and speak again. Not get into this cowardly pudding head shit of thousand cuts.!
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I have a few questions for Everybody.
1. Why did Karan Thapar name Manekshaw as the Bigadier in Military Operations directorate, in that interview when Manekshaw was Army Commander in 1965?
2. About Gen Jacob’s claim, can a chief of staff proceed without the COAS’s approval?
3. Why does it appear as if Karan Thapar is targetting Manekshaw?
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Sam Manekshaw is an icon. Jacob is a wind bag. In 1971, Jacob was a staff officer, not a commander. Staff officers assist commanders. They may contribute to sucess or failure, but they cannot claim credit for the result. If the operation fails, the commander gets the rap – he cannot say that the SO goofed up. If the operation succeeds, the commander must get the credit, no the SO.
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My salute to Sam….may you rest in peace
Sharif
Bangladesh
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How can anybody believe Gohar Ayub Khan’s lies?
After all this man has a very, very big axe to grind against Sam Bahadur, the axe is called 1971.
Somebody should have asked Gohar Ayub that why the fuck did your Pakistani Army lose, despite having the enemy’s Commanding Officer in your pocket, as he alleged. How pathetic is that?
Imagine if the Prophet [pbuh] Muhammad had Pakistani officers within his ranks, he would never have gotten out of Mecca.
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Karan Thapar like his father is a good for nothing journalist trying to pass off as a competent one. Just like his father Col P N Thapar whose ineptness and unprofessionalism caused the 1962 chinese drubbing. How so like father like son…
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sam bahadur amar rahe.
sorry sir, we prolly didn’t deserve you.
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I am a Canadaian Citizen of Pakistani origin (born in Sindh province) find myself ever so intrigued by the war that brought to Pakistan such infamy and eternal demnation. I was about 8 years old at the time this war broke out. I never could find the true facts behind this war in Pakistan, until I saw a news clip of the passing of the Sam Maneksahw. One look at his picture got me started into the search for the facts behind our disgraceful losses and shameful and cowardly defense of East Pakistan (Bangladesh). I have read coverage of the war by foreign correspondents at the time traveling with both indian and pakistani armies. It is clear that Pakistan Armed Forces had lost the moral and ethical high ground by their cruel treatment of Bangali’s. It is because of this fact, that battalions of fully armed troops with such numbers decided to surrender, rather than fight to death. I am ashamed of this page in our history.
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oh! thapar’s dad donned the fatigues too and was close to the nehru family.
it is eerie, how much power is really concentrated around the Nehru family.
better quit before somebody pulls up their thinking undies upto their knees and breaks into singing hymns from the cheddi gospel.
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Sam Manekshaw is a legend. I truly respect him and admire his passion, zeal, bravery and integrity. Let his soul rest in peace.
Wonder if we will ever see a “Man” like him.
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A true hero. We youngsters really miss you and your style. A brave soldier and a personality with exceptional sense of humor.
Salute to him.
Jaihind
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I am a businessman from Bangladesh,who works in the Gulf.I just saw this sight.I am related to many past generals in the Bangladesh army.All these people were junior officers at the time of was of independence.What I would like to say is this
“India has just lost a great SON,a man of noble beliefs and a man I would love my only child to emulate.He was not a muslim,like myself,but that does’nt matter,for this man was an absolute Icon,and I would love to have attended his funeral.Hopefully your nation gives him a state funeral for that is what he deserves.He will always endure in my heart for the many lives of my countrymen he had saved.
I would like to convey my salams to members of his family,and wish them peace.
For all you who have criticised him,well all I can I say is this,as time goes by NO ONE will remember you,but the name SAM MANEKSHAW will exist in all history texts.
My regards and and sorrow to the people of your great nation,for if it was’nt for him,India would not be as strong as it is now.
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RUBBISH ALLEGATIONS BY GOHAR AYB KHAN, S/O GEN. AYUB KHAN OF PAKISTAN THAT FIELD MARSHAL SAM MANEK SHAH HAD PASSED ON VITAL INDIAN WAR PLANS TO PAKISTAN PRIOR TO INDO-PAK CONFLICT, SIMPLY SHOW WHAT A FOOLISH MILITARY LEADERSHIP PAKISTAN HAD AT THE TIME. HAVING GOT INDIAN WAR PLANS THEY (PAKIS) LOST THE WAR, SURRENDERED NEARLY 100000 SOLDIERS AND EAST PAKISTAN GOT TORN AWAY FROM PAKISTAN TO BECOME BANGLADESH. IT IS NATURAL TO PONDER WHAT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED TO PAKISTAN IF THEY HAD NOT GOT THE INDIAN WAR PLANS.
GOHAR AYUB KHAN WHILE TRYING TO MALIGN SAM HAS INDEED MALIGNED HIS OWN FATHER BY CONFIRMING WHAT A USELESS GENERAL HE WAS . I DO NOT THINK THAT SAM BAHADUR WOULD EVER DID SUCH A THING.
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Look at the histories of Karan Thapar, his father, Gohar Ayu Khan and JFR Jacob and it becomes all so clear. Rascals got together to defame a gallant soul at a time when he got too ill to even speak in his defence. Why not earlier? The answer is that Karan is a Gay who goes around hunting to get his arse fucked in the by lanes of Colaba and in bylanes of Connaught Place. He is too fond of Pakistani Dicks that is the reason he is there every now and then.
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Ayub Khan made Gohar his ADC to protect his son’s a$$ from being busted on the frontlines during the war. Apparently Gohar did nothing much beyond playing the General’s son in his dad’s cozy office and getting groomed for a lucrative Army career without getting his hands dirty or risking his butt.
Sam was never the one to seek favour from high places. He had enough trouble during the sino-indian war (Krishna Menon, Kaul and co.) Even Indira Gandhi was so wary of this popular general that she actually checked with him on this. The reply was charateristic of Sam “You keep your nose out of my affairs and I’ll keep mine out of yours”. When Gen Niazi offered truce on the eastern front (aka Bangladesh) in 71, Indira asked Sam to personally accept the surrender. He nonchalantly brushed it off saying that he would go if the entire Paki army surrendered and instead gave Gen Arora the honor of accepting the surrender. I wish Sam was in his good health when Gohar made his allegations. He would have given a befitting reply.
Gohar you Idiot ! India’s defence plans were much more worth than 20K during a war. Any senior Army General [including Sam] would have known that ! So unless your dad filled your ears with some cooked-up fairytale [ in which case your dad is definitely a bigger moron ] shame on you ! Indian Generals are have better morals and ethics, not to speak adherence to the code of conduct during war as opposed to their Pakistani counrerparts [including Gohars own dad].
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Karan Thapar’s motives
—————————
Karan Thapar is the youngest son of Gen. Prem Nath Thapar
His father was the Chief of Army when India lost the war with China.
A Krishna Menon favourate, Thapar senior was “selected” bypassing Thorat, JN Choudhury and Manekshaw himself because he was pliable [read chamcha]. This man also tried to obstruct the rise of Sam Manekshaw. Thapar senior was the only chief of staff to quit in disgrace. His son Karan has something against Sam the most successful Army Chief. Karan goes on to great lengths by interviewing Gen Jacob and trying to out Manekshaw in bad light. A field commander may have different views than his boss who runs the entire war. So what? Why doesn’t Karan check out the integrity of Gohar Ayub Khan or his father ? Or his own father’s spinelessness that caused India it’s worst defeat in modern history.
What I am telling you is not a cock-and-bull story. Google PN Thapar/Karan thapar and find it out yourself.
Sons of two losers [Ayub’s son Gohar and Thapar’s son Karan] trying to [unsuccessfully] rewrite history.
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people are getting a bit confused here.
Ayub Khan was President of Pakistan in 1965 war,
Yahya Khan was President of Pakistan in 1971 war.
Gohar Ayub Khan is the son of Ayub Khan.
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Sam Manekshaw was a great citizen of our country who’s contributions in the field of India’s security remain unmatched. It is quite possible that General Jacob is right in poitning out that the initial plans of the Indian Army in 1971 did not include the capture of Dhaka but it is impossible that General Manekshaw within days of the start of hostilities did not believe that Indian forces supported by Bnagladesh Mukti Bahini would rout the Pakistani forces completely and therefore did consider the capture of Dhaka the goal for operations in the East as claimed by numerous biographies on him. Those closer to the operations perhaps realized this goal before those at the Center after all General Jacob and General Arora’s plan submitted to the Central Command also did not say that capture of Dhaka was the goal from Day One! Stated objective had to remain the stoppage of civilian carnage being perpetrated by Pakistani Armed Forces upon Bangladeshi civilians and especially against the Hindus if we wanted to keep the US out of the altercation.
And extraordinay claims against exetraordinary people such as Manekshaw should require exetraordinary proof! Gauhar Ayub’s has alluded to the involvement of a senior Indian soldier in the 1965 war. It remains an allegation. Unless he can provide the number of the account and verify the deposits, the dates and then the bank can verify those deposits as having come from pakistan and that the individual actually withdrew money from the account etc i.e. complete trail thee benefit of the doubt should go to the accused. And wouldn’t Pakistanis want the name of the greatest Indian soldier dragged in the mud as a payback for their greatest defeat and that too for a paltry sum?
In any case today let us raise a glass in memory of passing of a great Indian whos existence was a reminder of India’s ethos that tolerates diversity (Maekshaw was a Zorastrian by birth) and whos passing has left us all greatly diminished today.
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PAKIS CAN SAY HE IS A SPY, PROBABLY THEY ARE RIGHT ABOUT SELLING THE WAR PLAN FOR THEM, PAKIS RELIED ON THAT PLAN BUT ******* THAT PLAN WAS A WRONG ONE TO CONFUSE THEM, WITH THAT PLAN PAK FORCES REACHED IRAN NOT INDIA, HA HA HAAA *********
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I have been reading coments from Indian and Bengali Citizen’s about the conduct of Pakistani officers, plans being sold to paki’s and Paki officers being so stupid to still have lost the war!!!. To the critic’s of Pakistani conduct, I humbly remind them that the occupying and un-popular forces of Russia, United States and (Yes, India) whilst in Afghanistan, Vietnam and Sri Lanka respectively, had to run with their tails between their legs, when the local populations turned up the heat. India lost Rajeev Gandhi to insurgency and had to pull out of Sri lanka unceremoniously. So people living in glass houses must never throw rocks at others….. The great General Aurora himself conceeds that without the help of Mukti Bahini, with their targetted assasinations of pakistani soldiers, passing out of intelligence to India, the war in erstwhile would have been completely different with significant losses to india. I dont know much about Gohar Ayub and his claims, but one correction should be made that his term in office was not the same as the year 1971 in which the war took place. He was active in 1965. Pakistan simpley lost because of failed leadership, worst moral and ethical discharge of their sworn duties and lack or absence of the adherence of code of military conduct. when the ones sworn to uphold the law turn vultures, then the result becomes quite self evident. REST WELL FIELD MARSHAL SAM MANEKSHAW! YOU WERE INDEED A MAN OF INTEGRITY AND GREAT PERSONAL QUALITIES.
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Get one of our godmen to speak with the late General and find out the truth. I would especially be interested in knowing the manner in which the stupendous sum of twenty-thousand rupees was paid and how it was invested.
I have never been much of an admirer of military and police types because their unquestionable obligation is to obey their superiors regardless of the rightness of the orders they receive. Therefore, I have trouble believing that the general actually told Indira Gandhi that he would not bother her if she did not bother him. Imagine how much sooner the country would have become independent if our police and soldiers did not obey their British masters during the freedom struggle.
What is important is that Bangladesh is free. How I wish it did not persecute the Hindu population in the country and reduce their number from twenty-five percent to barely ten. Religion again. Remember that the Sepoy Mutiny had its origins in religious objections to pork and beef grease. It that were not the case, the mutiny would deserve the revisionist name for it–the first freedom struggle.
Pakistan has decimated its Hindu population. India for ever lives in the shadow of religious unrest.
Ours is a cursed subcontinent.
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well said Pulikeshi!!!………Well said!
Being a Pakistani muslim, I am particularly ashamed of our history in dealing with religious minorities in Pakistan. No religion teaches cruelty to others of different faiths.
It is our lack of understanding of basic religious principles that allowed the british to exploit our insecurities and laid foundations to boundaries that run deeper than lines drawn on the maps.
I agree, ours is a cursed subcontinent.
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The veteran Pakistani editor Mr. Ardeshir Cowasjee of Dawn has quoted this blog.
http://www.dawn.com/weekly/cowas/cowas.htm
Quote
==
Many were angered by this lack of respect shown to the nation’s brave soldier and one website is devoted to the comments of Indian citizens on the reaction of their politicians: https://churumuri.wordpress.com/2008/06/28/if-you-have-to-die-can-you-please-do-so-in-delhi.
As the editor writes, “The death of the only Indian to be appointed field marshal when in active service has been remarkable for the warmth of the ordinary men and women who queued up to say ‘thank you’…. It was also remarkable for the complete lack of grace and gratitude, civility and courtesy, decency and decorum on the part of the bold-faced names rapaciously grazing the lawns of power in Delhi and elsewhere, for the brain behind India’s only decisive military victory.”
And a sentence which would have made Sam Bahadur chuckle: As he [Manekshaw] rightly surmised once: ‘I wonder whether those of our political masters who have been put in charge of the defence of the country can distinguish a mortar from a motor, a gun from a howitzer, a guerrilla from a gorilla – although a great many of them in the past have resembled the latter’.
== end of quote
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Thanks, Wasim. It is sad that there are so many sectarian campaigns and cross campaigns within Pakistan: Sunni, Shia, Ahmediyyas, Bohras and the rest. Just as in India there is plenty of regional discard as well: Sindhis vs. Punjabis.
The British are responsible for many of our subcontinental woes. But they are not with us anymore. The thing to hope for is a mutually beneficial polity within India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh and among them. If there is no peace on the subcontinent, we are doomed to suffer many invasive actions that will drag us further down. The kind of regime change we have seen in Nepal is not necessarily a comforting one.
For positive changes to occur, we need statesmen to lead our countries, not politicians with fat bank accounts abroad. The willingness to allow statesmen to be in charge depends heavily on education. An uneducated population is the greatest gift to the politicians in the three large countries, perhaps Sri Lanka, too. We should be spending the money that goes to endless preparedness of the armed forces on education. Our politicians are given to saying they spend six per cent of their national income on defence. I am skeptical. It is about thirty per cent.
Salaam.
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All this talk slowly turning into the old, old topic of Hindu vs Muslim and similar rubbish. What has happened over the last millenium (and probably earlier, too) is that wealthy people have used the damned mandir-wallahs and the dirty masjid-wallahs to emphatically deny good life to the majority. Still, they had recognized the different parts of today’s India as separate sovereign nations with reasonably static structures. The foreign occupiers played the whole thing up and created Bengali Indians and Madrassi Indians and Sindhi Indians and Marwari Indians and Punjabi Indians etc etc. They then happily played off every possible sector against some other, making it easy for themselves to loot the geography.
I am NOT a communist.
Sam Manekshaw did whatever was required for the United States of India. Naturally the dynastic clans have done their damnedest to malign him. In this they bribe the so called BJP idiots to follow suit, too. The commies are another bunch of thoughtless creeps with no sense of history.
Manekshaw’s funeral actually was most honourable, particularly in the absence of such vile animals.
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25% of out GDP is into Corruption. Corruption breeds dynasties. Once the system is corrupt politicians through out history have used violence as a mechanism to wage war externally or internally to stay in Power.
We in India have been a mute withness to carnage against our Sikh brothers and sisters. They were massacred in 84 and they are yet to get justice.
Tamils were massacred in Sri Lanka by peace loving Indian army.
North Eastern part of the country is considered another country by our politicians. Our media is restricted to north and south of the country as well. The amount of development taken place in north east in last 60 years speaks volumes about the honest need to develop it.
Politicians are too thick skinned to understand sacrifices by our loyal soldiers and citizens. There are bomb blasts and suicide attacks on citizens but they remain pure numbers in newspaper reports.
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SmallTalkSon!
I think with your progressive ideas, the chances of you being allowed any where near a funeral except your own are zero:)
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I am surprised that anyone could/should revile the late Field Marshal Sam. To me he will always be a larger-than-lie hero. The only person I would compare with the Field Marshal is the late General Thimayya. Both were great soldiers, humane and respected by all who came in contact with them. I could include my late Father, but for a different reason because of what he made of the Indian Army at a time when it could have been subjected to the pressures of politicisation.
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Hero worship is the enemy of reason. To say someone is not the god he is said to be is not necessarily to revile him.
If they can be honest and committed to democracy, perhaps the Indian Armed Forces should allow themselves to have a greater say in what happens in the country, if not determine it.
What can they do to stop the further sliding of the country into the morass of corruption and destructivism?
This is exactly my problem. The nature of the profession does not allow it to be anything other than what it is, especially under its pretense of being British in its professionalism. If our generals, air marshals, and the naval chiefs have the gumption to make life in India better, this aside from defending the country, what is stopping them?
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Furthermore, where were the patriotism and commitment to democracy of our generals during the spell of Indira Gandhi’s Hitlerian dictatorship? Where was our solidiery’s commitment to India when it was tamely obeying the murderous orders of its British overlords? What is the contribution of the generals to the well-being of our veterans?
Misusing power in the service of evil is immoral, so is not using it in the service of good.
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It is a good timepass and ego massage. Luxury loving, imagination-less, anonymous, utterly orderly, useless sons of mother India, who havent lifted a finger to do any good for the country but eat pizza and fart in cosy corners, commenting on people who have clearly achieved greatness.
Tell me what better way to prove your greatness, you evil bitches?
The past is gone. If you sit and criticize what happened 35 or 3500 years ago in today’s environment, you will come up with great pearls of insight, every time. But that will not achieve anything. Why not worry about the present, you crawling cockroaches?
If you really want to ask something- ask this – what was my good for nothing dad doing when India was fighting pakistan, did he move a muscle, or was he, like you, a constant bitcher or an ignoramus who didnt give a fart about anything?
There is absolutely no benefit to be gained in bad mouthing national idols. It will only demoralize the country. And the moral is important, what difference does war strategy make to you useless duds, did you ever fight a war? What was general jacob doing for 35 years, turning in his own shit? I think a person who bad mouths a general like this is a worm who should be spat upon.
Anyway happy timepass you bozos.
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Abj–
I think I would consider agreeing or disagreeing with you if I knew what your argument is. I do know it is full of invective. That doesn’t take us very far.
None of the bloggers here are any threat to the nation’s security, although, as you rightly surmise, they have not fought any wars.
We have not always been well served by our national idols, as you call them. RIP.
I miss the presence of Dr. Ramesh which always brought us some relief in situations like this whether he intended to provide such medial aid or not. DB, AG, Gaby, and the rest of you, please do what you can to get him back on the screen. I hope HDK would be willing to help.
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PTL,
I got his strange feeling that Doc Ramesh has unleashed his vengeance on all the bloggers here. He has deputed another doctor here but he is not doing half as good a job as our orginal doc. Guess we need to request KP to send out an SOS to doc ramesh, he has his email id
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VP–
So many talking heads here sound so much like Dr. Ramesh that it is hard to identify any one of them as his new persona. The difference is as Dr. R, he did refrain from calling names or launching personal attacks.
The abusive language and general lack of coherence in some of the posts deserve to be studied. The mindset is the person thinks that his is the last word on the topic.
I suspect political parties do have people keeping track of what happens at forums like this and that some of them act as agent provocateurs. I definitely find it interesting that supportive posts for Devegowda and the BJP outnumber all others when it comes to Karnataka issues.
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PTL,
Rightly surmised. Very many here have jumped on the invective bandwagon as you have mentioned.
definitely none of them is dr ramesh, he would not stoop so low as to launch a frontal personal attack
coming to the all and sundry supporters of BJP, Congress and JDS more often than not support is based on caste, religious considerations & perceived affinity to the players in the political theatre. To hell with Karnataka issues.
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VP–
If not caste, it is religion, if not religion, it is money. As a people, we have not learnt to be loyal to principles.
Does anybody know if the leaders of Bangla Desh have expressed their sorrow over the General’s death?
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Sam Bahadur Manekshaw will always remain in our hearts as an excellent human being. Being a GORKHA, I salute him.
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Sam is a legend who led Indian Army in a way he only can do . I have a small request to Mr. Thaper , Kindly speak to some other leaders of bangladesh war about Sam . You will understand what was happend . Anyway , thanks Mr. Thaper and Gohar Ayub Khan for the Joke of the year , since we very well know what Pak army did after getting the “war plan” from Indian Gen!!!!!! .
( Sorry , this question is not raised by me ,BUT BY MY 8 YEAR OLD SON . Mr. Thaper get some commonsense from small children like him!!!!!!)
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I do agree with Jacob Davis and Manoj Nair. Allegations may arise but answers are always there, hope these people who are against Sam may understand.
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this is as absolute shit that aims at defaming the best officer in the contemprary world and thats SAM…..though he is not with us bbut the flames that he produced is enough for us to move on thousands of years to come …please do not believe in such nuisance
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To waste time talking about views of the son of P N Thapar and Ayub Khan is just …well a waste of time!
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This is stupid to write history by giving exaggeration of Indian armies. Definitely India had a great role for making Bangladesh but the it is Mukti Bahini of Bengali who weaken all West Pakistani soldiers near about 9 months. India intervened in war at the last time to take the credits of war in world stage. If India would not intervened in war it would take another 3 months to gain victory over west Pakistani army for Bengali muktibahini who comprised of east bengal regimental armies and common masses. So India entered into war for their benifit but we bengali thanks them to give us shelter in war, but is does not mean that we will be subservient to them always. They helped us for their benifit not for us only.
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now the mane war hereo i think it must be VIKRAM BATRA YEH DIL MANGE MORE in kargil we all are indians and we all see the power of his byesypees cause ( we are punjabis from india and oftenly we say our kids GARA DE SERA TE NE HUNDIA LADAYAI APNE BE DOOLAIN CH JANN CHAHIDE) JAI HIND TODAY &FOREVER FOR MY COUNTRY GREAT GREAT INDIA
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To Gohar,
Field Marshall Sam (Bahadur) Manekshaw gave (pretended selling) you the wrong plans, tht’s how we won the war & you lost it idiot…now go back & bang your head on the wall…..before that you should leave Paki…if ISI got to know this…they will kill you at the earliest for buying Plans (worng) from Indian General (only stupids can do this)……
Sam
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god help India and the world, what some people do for a little publicity.
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Wow!!
It’s a nice (and only) way of getting back at the General who snatched half your country from you — accuse him (indirectly, of course) of treason!!
Sam is remembered as a great leader because he was an old school chap who had great moral conviction and guts to stand up to the paper-pushers and yes-men (bureaucrats and politicians). He took care of his men and it is no wonder he was loved by his troops. And luck/fortune — always favors the brave!!
***
Slimy nonsense…
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Seven generations of Ayub Khan and K Thapar combined would make no match for Gen Manekshaw.
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just imagine losing the bloody war after being handed the Plans on a platter:)
The PAK ARMY brass must be really stupid !
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gen.manakshaw was a great son of india.i saw him at new delhi rly.station where i was working as commercial clerk.he was going to
south india after when there was a hue and cry in parliament against him.
he was seen off by rly.minister sh.misra.general was having a handsome
personality and casting a spell on everyone,his wife was also very beautiful lady.they can never do anything wronge against their motherland…….may god bliss them peace and heaven.
K.S.BADHAN.
IRTS.RETD.
TORONTO-CANADA.
11-02-2012
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Field Marshal Manekshaw had described Karan Thapar’s father, Gen Thapar as a NALAYAK twice in a interview with a Hindi channel, for his faltering and craven leadership of the army in 1962. Perhaps this is why Karan has stooped to gutter level in insinuating that the late field Marshal had sold Indian plans to Pakistan in 1965.
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this is 2016. never knew he made so many enemies. it is like modern office intrigue.
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Amazing person
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