Eight reasons why we should just let Kashmir go

ALOK PRASANNA writes from Bangalore: Lawyers love being contra. I am a lawyer. Ergo this post is about being contra.

Since the “majority” opinion according to The Times of India, CNN-IBN, and just about any reporter with a microphone to thrust in someone’s faces seems to be that we should not let Kashmir “go”, an irresistible urge demands that I oppose the majority and give good reasons for it (unlike those who base their arguments on “self-determination” and silly liberal bullshit like that).

And since I am in a good mood these days, I will also tell you why whichever option enlightened Kashmiri separatists choose, Pakistan or bust (i.e., “self” rule), we should happily open the door for them, and send them off with a cheery wave and a goodbye kiss.

So, here goes: four reasons why we must let Kashmir go to Pakistan:

1. Pakistan has a favoured way of dealing with troublesome mountainous border provinces with strong self-determination streaks. They let the Americans bomb them. Syed Ali Shah Geelani and his ragtag ilk will soon long for the kid gloves of the Indian military establishment.

2. We already have enough ethnic-cleansing, appeasement-hating, persecution-complex bound “minorities who are actually majorities” (the Sangh Parivar) and maybe Pakistan could use a few (more).

3. Pareto Efficiency. It saves us a lot of money to put one less national language on our currency notes. Of course it won’t cost the Pakistanis any since there is only one national language, and last I heard, Kashmiri it wasn’t.

4. Once it realizes that the “Kashmir problem” is settled, Pakistan will realize that it has no reason to exist. Two birds with one stone.

Of course, there is a strong section of the Kashmiri separatist movement which believes that “independence” is the best course for the Valley.

If the tender ministrations of Pakistani “administration” does not convince them to stay on, and they decide “we don’t need an unresponsive foreign government to make burdensome laws, we can make our own”, well I say we let them.

So, here goes: four reasons why we must let Kashmir claim independence:

5. Military: Their neighbours will be India, Pakistan and China. No country can claim such a host of dangerously unstable, nuclear armed, overambitious, territorially hungry nations. Even NATO membership won’t save you. As Georgia is still finding out.

6. Economy: It saves us the blank cheque that we write them every year, and we can actually have greater control over them since we will be their biggest and only trading partner (no routes in from China, and Pakistan doesn’t have an economy). We will control the only safe air routes into Srinagar, and the only all weather road and train link into Kashmir. Man, we can make them dance like a monkey on a stick. Maybe they’ll even provide as much entertainment as the erstwhile “Royal” Nepal.

7. Politics: Watch as Geelani and his ilk find that fasts, bandhs, marches, strikes, threats to sign up with militants is not exactly a popular way to run a Government. It’ll be great fun on a slow news day.

8. They get to keep Arundhati Roy.

There, that’s 8 good reasons to let Kashmir go.

In a year or two, watch this space for “8 reasons why we should let Kashmir back in”.

Map: courtesy University of Texas at Austin

Also read: ‘What Pakistan didn’t in 60 years, BJP has in six weeks’

‘BJP today is the best friend of the Lashkar-e-Toiba’

CHANDAN MITRA: ‘Advocates of Azadi should be tried for treason’

CHURUMURI POLL: Is an ‘economic blockade’ OK?

PRATAP BHANU MEHTA: ‘Amarnath is about communalism not nationalism

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117 Responses to “Eight reasons why we should just let Kashmir go”

  1. Shrinidhi Hande Says:

    Supposing we give Kashmir away, do you think those militants and their supporters will retire? No. They will find a new excuse to continue their business…may be start insisting for part of Punjab, Rajastan…

  2. Nastika Says:

    Agree with every point. I guess its time to let it go.

  3. Hiker Says:

    OK. Good joke.

  4. Nastika Says:

    @Shrinidhi Hande

    Lets face it – India is not able to guard the whole of J&K. Half of it is already eaten by Pakistan & China.

    Give J & K away, guard Punjab, Rajastan, Bengal better.

    Please understand, J & K is taking all resource (money & manpower) for last 25 years with little result. Lets utilize that resource for other parts of India.

    Let us guard North East better – it might J & K of future.

  5. Anonymous Guy Says:

    Maybe we should send pack off our most of our lawyers and government officials too.

  6. M O H A N Says:

    On a lighter note – i liked the last one a lot but as shrinidhi puts it – trained killers can not retire just like that.

    Look at what bangaladesh has done to india – bombing, killing and even trespassing into INDIA.

    In fact after giving independence pakistan will continue the terrorisum with a new base ( nearer) and continue the jihadi till it gets kanyakumari – India being a peace loving country can not go into pakistan and bomb them out.

    Ideally the stalemate is a better choice than major chaos – look at a instable pakistan. One of the generals will soon decide to take over that country – we have to wait till he decides to do some thing about it. Hope he remembers kargil before he decides.

  7. N Says:

    Eight reasons to let Kashmir go sounds good does it not? Think contra again.

    What if Mumbai decides to secede from India? In any case Mumbai contributes more to India and gets little in return. In any case it is an island? Will we let that go too?

  8. YA Says:

    Churumuri following throwing-shit-to-fan theorem….Blindly copying Arundhati Roys strategy of being in the news by farting a very bad antinational or pseudosecular stink. ..just to get some hits on your site ?

  9. Vijay Says:

    #8 is Mandatory… we can also throw in a few more pseudos..

  10. Yaarappan Aasti? Says:

    Yaawn !
    9 reasons why Kashmir should stay with Bharat
    1) Nim Appan Aasti na?
    2) Nim Appan Aasti na?
    3) Nim Appan Aasti na?
    4) Nim Appan Aasti na?
    5) Nim Appan Aasti na?
    6) Nim Appan Aasti na?

    7)
    when Swami Vivekananda, the great parivrajak, began his walk, he was in essence no different from the Buddha. Or even Adi Shankaracharya, who roamed this continent-sized idea called Bharat to lend a political definition to its existence. The Golden Quadrilateral that Shankara created, touching the four corners of Bharatvarsha – described in Vishnu Purana thus: Uttaranyat Samudrasya Himadrashchaiva Dakshinam/Varsh tad Bharat naam Bharati yatra santatih. (North of the ocean and south of the Himalayas is the nation of Bharat, and its people are called Bharatis.) – provided both a political and physical definition to Hinduism. The great propounder of Advaita, the non-dual Brahman, established mathas across the length and breadth of the country: Sringeri in south, Dwarka in west, Badrinarayan in north, Hardwar down the Himalayas and Kamarupa in the East. He travelled from Kanyakumari to Kashmir and from Gujarat to Assam by the time he was 32. It is to his yatras that the Indic civilisation owes its metaphysical continuity as well as its political unity.

    (
    http://www.dailypioneer.com/columnist1.asp?main_variable=Columnist&file_name=SIDDHARTH55.txt&writer=SIDDHARTH&validit=yes)

    8) Rafeeq Zakaria in his book “Where Muslims went wrong”:
    Zakaria strongly asserts that any solution of the Kashmir dispute on the lines desired by Pakistan will reopen the floodgates of vehement communalism. “The best way of silencing the Pakistanis and preserving Kashmir’s integration with India is to strengthen the link between Kashmiri Muslims and Indian Muslims” (p 405). Terrorism perpetrated in the name of jihad in Indian Kashmir is a major cause of Hindu-Muslim hostility.
    ( NOT BJP…you dick head Karan Thapar)
    Zakaria cites Imam Ghazali, popular as the “Rejuvenator of Islam”: “If Muslims did not destroy terrorism, terrorism would destroy them” (p 203). To gloat over acts of terrorism and hold jashn (celebrations) depicts “utter crassness and lunacy”.

    9) Only Jihadis can get rid of pseudo secular journalists..they will just behead them ..atleast that is one positive thing about keeping Kashmir with HINDUsthan.

  11. Andy Says:

    Reason No:8 is the most compelling arguement..

  12. buz Says:

    pakistan exists because it has to hate India ……. There is no other base on which India and Pak divided ….. Even we cant argue it was divided on religious base bec Muslims are present in India and some Hindus in Pak till now. So they will never keep quiet after that. They will demand every land in India where Muslims are majority. So u say we shud give away all the small areas in our big cities to them???

  13. Poli Kitty Says:

    Creating Pak was a big mistake.
    People in the valley have been pampared form the day of Nehru…

    do you think they (pakis)will keep quite after getting kashmir.
    then they will infiltrate into jammu kill hindus and reduce hindus to minority.free jammu.. then himachal.

    First and foremost PAK does not have any thing good to do in its existence.

  14. ERR Says:

    Whom are you going to Give Kashmir to? To Kashmiris? To Pakisthan? One you give Kashmir away, the militants or whosoever , will want Jammu.They may want to ‘cleanse ‘Jammu and convert it into Muslim state. Once you give part of what was yours, no army would like to fight to ‘defnd’ the borders. Don’t forget you are planning to ‘sacrifice’ Kashmir amidst seperatists, Talibans and plain militants and terrorists who may want whole of India.

    Just put the Army on the job and show no mercy for the group that want to seperate.Punjabis wanted it too some years back.We quelled it under K.P.S. Gill. Bring him back with powers. He will show the result in two months.Talk tough and show you mean it.

  15. Prudent Indian Says:

    Loved it. :)

    Some arguments are really worth serious thoughts. However, even though I know it is just light hearted ‘satire’ , I beg to differ and ask…

    “Let all those Kashmirs go to where ever they want. No point for our security forces to ‘waste’ bullets forcing them to stay back here. SAVE these bullets for those who once cross over to POK, attempts to come back”.

    PI.

  16. Doddi Buddi Says:

    May be Alok is trying to get noticed by both Imran Khan and Pervez Musharaff for his excellent diplomatic skills! Ergo Nishan-e-Pakistan to Alok Lawyerwalla:)

  17. vikrama Says:

    Kashmir should never be given away. Not an inch of land. These people supporting the Kashmir to go away from India really do not know the way separatism works. If Kashmir goes next punjab will go then Rajasthan. Kashmir is a good buffer and should be kept that way, under army rule – 24 hours curfew. They deserve it. Indian army should use all the force in Kashmir to punish these separatists for all the atrocities they have done on the Hindu populace. Kashmir once a citadel of Shaivism doesn’t even have any Hindus left. Kashmiri terrorists have bombed innocent civilians across India.
    Do Kashmiris think India a nuclear power will let go of Kashmir so easily. The separatists are hallucinating under the influence of Afghan Hashish if they are think that way. There will be a huge bloodbath in the Kashmir valley if they become a separate country or merge with Pakisthan. We should give the same treatment to Kashmir as Russia is doing in chechenya. After all they want separate rules and articles in the constituion. Indian Army should turn Kashmir into an army cantonment.
    Those people in Kashmir who do not want be part of India can freely leave and not return back. They kicked the pandits out at gun point. We should do tit for tat.

  18. Jeevan Says:

    We don’t have let *Kashmir* go. We only need to let the separatists go — into Pakistan.

  19. jp Says:

    u’ve proved urself not contra but dangerously irresponsible by this post…

  20. kkr Says:

    if they don’t need us, why are we sticking to them…
    Let them go.Then there will not be any case for Pakistan.. If Pak makes trouble again, nuke their a**

  21. Ks Says:

    I kinda agree with most of these aruments…but
    1) If we let kashmir go, it cannot exist as independent country for long. It’ll be controlled by Islamabad. A stronger Pak will continue the maillitancy in other parts of India.
    2) Since Pak and china are allies, China’s presence in Kashmi is detrimental to India’s security.Historically Himalayas in Kashmir has bordered and saved India from china but that adavatage will no longer exist. Already they have an ally in Nepal and we cant have another neighbour who is an ally of China

  22. clash Says:

    Under Musharaff Pakistan registered the highest growth in economy in the last few years and some times it was way ahead than India. This is in no way an argument favoring Kashimir’s cessation but i was just trying to point out a glaring mistake in the contra’s statement.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/aug/14/pakistan.india1

    this will help the contra to sort out!

  23. Gaby Says:

    Which political organisation in India would have the ballz to say enough is enough and let go- which Prime Minister will have the Ballz to be a quasi Gorbachev and let a state of the union go its way- will it encourage the MuKa’s and the now realtivlely-quiet North east?

  24. Jitenkumar Says:

    Looking at some mails who are advocates to let kahmir off i would like to remind them of some facts. India was historically populated by Aryans and Dravids. that is hindus. islam originated from saudi region. the religion and population spreaded across the globe. hindus welcomed all religions in india. islam also mergen in the culture. After generations are gone by islamist demand for their own state ruled by them and an islamic state where islam supercedes other religion. so Previosly it was pakistan now kashmir and after some time other some xyz would require another islamic state. ultimately all india will be distributed in numerous small islamic states.
    it not a battle of ideologies it a clash of civilisation on one side is islamic fundamentilism and other a tolerant secularism. i just cant understant their logic why are we punished like this because we allowed muslims and islam to flourish in india. its a battle of survival for other religions in india.
    I dont mean to hurt secular muslims in india who believe they are a part of india but some section of those people are doing this. secular muslims should come forward before the situation collapses.

  25. tarlesubba Says:

    alok, frivolous post.

    this post by r.c. acharya should be mandatory reading for everyone …
    https://churumuri.wordpress.com/2008/08/25/what-pak-didnt-in-60-years-bjp-has-in-6-weeks/#comment-87191

    that is an accurate description of why from kashmiri perspective azadi is not feasible, despite sloganeering. it can be elaborated on further…
    For example, Pakistan cannot afford it, and Kashmiris are given to a lot of high life which the Pakis cannot afford and KAshmiris cannot let go. Kashmiris have closer links to US than to China etc etc…

    but from rest of the india perspective, it is a pity that map is not illustrative enough and is only decorative, it should have been at a grosser scale showing A’stan,P’stan, Tibet, China, Iran and the sundry stans from former Soviet Union.

    Route to heart land india is through the hills. Therefore A’stan-KA-Tibet-Burma forms the natural boundary of India. That is why India supported Northern Alliance. Why, that is why even Akbar kept fighting in Afganistan & Kashmir and so did the Sikhs after them and so did the British and so did the mauryas before all of them. and every other worthy indian ruler in between.

    This is all part of the deal of being India. Inescapable. Just hang on …

    That is to say even the arrival of Turks and Arabs and the Europeans has not changed the scene. And the scene will not change even if the Chinese or the Americans or the Africans come in tomorrow. Hills are important.

  26. kc Says:

    I dont agree with you one bit. But your reasons gave me a chuckle though. If we werent talking about the integrity of India, i would have been tempted to agree with you whole heartedly.

  27. Chet Says:

    @clash,

    Pakistan’s economy does well as long as America keeps writing blank cheques. The moment America starts holding back on writing cheques, Pakistan’s economy starts going down.

    This is not new to Pakistan. It has been so during Zia’s regime and before that too. Musharraf has been clever to milk America as long as he could.

  28. Aam Insaan Says:

    It is the shallow minds of lawyers like you that have given birth to a terrorist state pakistan(sic) for which three generations of indians have already paid a heavy price till date.

  29. Beeba Says:

    Anything to get rid of Arundhati Roy! Maybe we can accomplish just this by starting a petition to get rid of her? Leave Kashmir for another day?

  30. Which Main? What Cross? Says:

    Serious discussion about a joke?

  31. mayura Says:

    Lawyers should just stick to what they have been traditionally doing , lying/producing false alibis in courts and getting convicts aquitted and desist from writing such asinine posts. :)

  32. Faldo Says:

    Alok I was missing the 4 reasons why J&K should remain a part of India. Since you argued for two of the three parties to the dispute, it is only fair that you look at the third party as well.

    On a more serious note, if we let this state go other states can justify similar demands in the name of language, caste, region and so on.

  33. P. Carrot Says:

    I say we should request our fatherland China to extend the Tibetan railway to Kashmir. This way Han Chinese will arrive and drive away the Kashmiri Muslims. Then we can solve the Kashmir issue with China by “give and take”.
    (give Kashmir and take nothing).

  34. Doddi Buddi Says:

    TS,

    What Acharya says is fairly well-known and understood by all non-Alok types!

  35. Aadhi Says:

    I totally agree with Mohan and Jeevan… do you think they will stop the terrorism by letting kashmir go…. they are gonna continue.. may be they will come up and say… ‘Indians are torturing the Muslims in Kerala or Hyd and we will fight for them’…. so can we let them go too… kashmir is like crown of India… as jeevan said if people (separatist) dont like staying in Kashmir and they like Pakistan… get the fuck out of here…. Arundhati Roy too…

  36. Eight reasons why we should just let Kashmir go - An Indian Perspective - GupShup Forums Says:

    […] guy is either a plagiarist, or a troll. source for the original article: Eight reasons why we should just let Kashmir go churumuri O Englightened dog, come and stay with me for a while. – Hazrat Bayazid Bistani (The way of […]

  37. mayura Says:

    >>They get to keep Arundhati Roy>>

    As a bonus throw in the following eminent people.

    Kushwant Sing, Kuldeep Nayyar, Vinod Mehta, Burkha Roy, Sagarika Ghose, Shabana Azmi, Javed Akthar etc.

  38. mallapottell Says:

    If majority Kashmiris want to secede from India, they should be allowed to do so. The funds wasted in Kashmir can be put to better use for development. Why do we have to rule people against their will.

  39. Tathagata Mukherji Says:

    Kashmir has become a joke to a section of media, people. We are spending 10s of billions of dollars, blood of 100,000 people to protect our country and this type of attitude really hurts.

    Giving away Kashmir will out questions on continuance of muslims living in rest of India- this is not my word but Congress Foreign Minister Dinesh Singh in Parliament during 1992-3.

    Ready for an official “hindu State” in India?

  40. raj Says:

    Why did we not give khalistan to sikhs? Why is china not giving away tibet and why even tiny sri lanka will not talk about giving away eelam? That is because they do not have hindu named traitors who are known as p-seculars in english media.
    Jawans have died for kashmir in several wars and just yesterday colonel thomas died. And this secular idiot thinks he is impressing us with his puerile attempts at satire. God save india from these english media traitors… who care two hoots about the nation and those who lay down their lives defending it.

  41. d Says:

    Jokes apart lawyer saab, you make a pretty good case!

  42. Tathagata Mukherji Says:

    Friends,

    whoever are ashamed of Indian democracy- please feel to free to move to Pakistan, Kashmir, Bangladesh……………………….We will arrange one way ticket.

  43. Shrinidhi Hande Says:

    We give away Kashmir now, 5 years later we’ll be reading another post here titled “16 Reasons why we should give Punjab and Rajastan away”

  44. Panditaratna Says:

    And srinidhi also next the cow belt and also our neigbouring Konga Nadu.

  45. Nair Says:

    1) What is so special about Kashmir that they require independence? Why not other states then? Just because they have been having the terrorist gangs they deserve independence!! What a joke.
    2) If they get independence it will be bankrolled by – Saudi and China (like Pakistan) and they would extract the price.
    3) Kashmiri’s will fall to the Taliban and ilk in no time… the moderate Hurruyats will be despatched straightaway…this time to hell
    4) It is the China, Pak and the west that would fight it out close to our borders and we cannot live with that situation.
    5) And some one correctly mentioned that it was a lawyer and some journalists which resulted in the first partitiion that was resulted in milliion deaths. These intellectuals are not practical persons who understand the emotional aspects of the people. If Jammu could flare up what would stop the entire nation burning up.

    You might want to punish the Kashmiri’s by your eight reasons but remember you would be hurting a lot of Indian’s (muslims and hindus).

  46. Arun Says:

    1. Close all TV channels for 10 days – short term problems solved
    2. Seriously rethink the idea of settling few thousands of Tamils (as suggested to Nehru) in the valley – long term problem solved

  47. Not A Witty Nick Says:

    Bahl and Roy should be made to start 24×7 celebrity activist channel where Ms. Roy, Azmi, Akhtars and et al., can blare their heart out… let it be a kopa gruha for them! :P

    Wait ain’t these news channels already doing the same!?

    So it is not the BJP which achieved this miracle in 6 weeks, it is the popular TV news media!

  48. Tarlemaga Says:

    Nehru created a time bomb and left. He left very little room for his home minister Vallabhai Patel to manoevere in Kashmir.

    The result is violence and separatism.

    Article 370 has been thrust by Nehru and the rest of India has to face the brunt.

    Now his progrenies are trying a quick fix, but are scared to even utter a word about Kashmir.

    Nehru almost lost North East to China in 1962 after proclaiming “HINDI CHINI BHAI BHAI”

    He went to grave grave stating that a Pandit and Kashmiri muslim are Bhai Bhai….

    Now he needs to call himself “Behen” and not “Bhai”

    Nehru Behen….

  49. Janasamanya Says:

    Points to ponder.

  50. Kashinath Says:

    We should stop talking about Kashmir. Too much of time is wasted on talking about these Kashmiris as if it is the most important thing in India. We have many other things to talk about other than giving so much publicity to these separatists and jihadis. Let the army take care of them. I request churumuri to stop posting these articles on Kashmir and instead concentrate on subjects dear to Kannadigas.

  51. philramble Says:

    Reason #8 is enough. But seriously, we need to make a collective decision to let Kashmir go. Once we do that, we can let Pakistan deal with the repercussions of obtaining Kashmir. That should be fun to watch.

  52. philramble Says:

    Having said that, some interesting suggestions there – shutting down TV channels for 10 days, and then planning resettlement of Tamils into the Valley. Excellent idea. 10/10 for Strategy.

  53. Nikhil Says:

    we ought to gift kashmir to the chinese.
    and watch the fun.

  54. Narayana Says:

    Only way forward is scrap article 370. That has kept Kashmir poor.

  55. Vinod Sharma Says:

    These basic points appear so obvious. don’t they? I’m sure Gilani and the like have known them forever. The only guys who are unable to see that Kashmiris separarists are actually skating on very thin ice are our politicians, bureaucrats and media luminaries!

    So, every time the Gilani Gang shouts, out come the check books!

    A rude reality check is what is needed.

  56. iqbal Says:

    After going through all these comments, lam amazed at the bankruptcy of India’s so called educated class.Areal Sharon ,a friend of india was a staunch supporter of greater Isreal.But when he became prime minister ,his first order was to vacate south Lebanon and then he did the same in Gaza.India lies to the outside world about its atrocities in Kashmir.I will really consider india a super power if it tells the truth about the atrocities it commits in Kashmir openly without fearing anyone.Atrocities are part of freedom struggle.Give due credit to Britishers that they didn’t commit those atrocities on your grandfathers ,the ones you are committing on unarmed Kashmiris.perhaps then to this day you would have been polishing the shoes of Englishman.Kashmiris never take anyones favor and that too from a nation which cannot feed its own population.Billions of dollars worth electricity generated from our water resources cannot go unaccounted, when finally the calculators will be drawn. Hope you will pay us the balance.And if not, do consider it as an aid from a newly emerged country.INSHALLAH.

  57. Doddi Buddi Says:

    Iqbal,

    Thank you. Now can you please define who is a Kashmiri? What is Kashmiriyat? Who were your ancestors? Give us some idea about the Kashmiri language….

  58. Hiker Says:

    iqbal,

    Billions of dollars given by the central government to Kashmir state as funds also cannot go unaccounted for. If you so desperately want ‘freedom’ may be you can go to Porkistan. Or even better Afghanistan where you can have lot of freedom under Sharia law. Or how about Lebanon so that you can fight Israel?
    First of all Kashmir does not belong to its present inhabitants. Understand that clearly. Kashmir belongs to Pandits. We need not tell anyone what is being done in Kashmir. World media is free to cover Kashmir and there are no restrictions. If at all there are any atrocities committed then it is being committed by your friends from Porkistan in the name of so called Jihad.

  59. Sohail Says:

    This is how you indians treat the Kashmir dispute- ‘in a lighter vein’. Let me tell you, your great democratic country couldn’t make the people of kashmir its citizens even after 60 years of continuous efforts. What on earth didn’t you try? Rigged elections, opression, supression, genocide.You even followed the British foot steps and divided our leaders to rule us. Alas. It still needed only a piece of land to kindle the fire of freedom in the hearts of Kashmiris. The assemblage of lakhs of us for our genuine demand has purturbed you like hell. You should see the writing on the wall and QUIT KASHMIR

  60. Narayana Says:

    If you see the map of Jammu and Kashmir, it becomes evident that Kashmir can not survive on its own. It has to depend either on Pakistan ( Jhelum Valley Route to Rawalpindi) or India ( Banihal pass route through Jammu to Jalandhar ) to get supplies. Kashmir valley is not accessible from Chinese side. Himalayas and Ladak range are too difficult terrain to construct roads or tunnels )

    Route from India is difficult and often closes during winter. Whereas Jhelum valley route to Pakistan is little less harsh during winter. Since that route is closed after 1948 war with Pakistan, Vale of Kashmir is totally dependent on India for everything.
    In order to improve transportation, India constructed a tunnel through Pir Pinjal range connecting Kashmir to Jammu in 1956. However road approaching the tunnel still gets blocked during winter because of snow. So Kashmir becomes an island during winter. Further investments are needed to make the route all weather I suppose.

    Kashmiris so may feel that they were better off with Pakistan because of access to Jhelum valley. Added to this is sense of brotherhood with Pakistan because of predominantly Muslim population. Kashmiris want economic development but do not want to lose their identity. This probably is the most difficult problem. The trade off between economic development and losing identity should have been made clear to Sheikh Abdulla. You can not have an agreement so one sided where Indira Gandhi gave everything to Kashmir and did not get anything in return.
    India should stop being apologetical. Should repeal article 370 and develop Kashmir like Uygur Autonomous Region of China by allowing Indian businesses to set shop and improving the infrastructure. Prosperity brings in Peace!!!

  61. Fvxxan, Kashmir. Says:

    I’m here to tell you something.
    Had I been an Indian and seen my nation pump millions every year into kashmir and still unable to win people.
    Had I seen My tiranga being trampled upon by charged up youth amidst slogans of Bharat ka Tiranga- De Ragda (in front of a bunker of my ‘security forces’)..
    Had I seen My tiranga being hosted by DIG CRPF at the Red Square, Srinagar on 1030am, 15th August only to be brought tearing down by kashmiri youth to hoist the pakistani one amid roars of Jeeve Jeeve Pakistan..
    Had I seen Allahu Akbar and Pakistani Flags atop almost all army bunkers which incidentally happen to be after evry 300 meters..
    Had I seen even a single Indian army man being stripped in front of thousands and forced to shout Pakistan Zindahbad and Hum kya Chahte- Azadi , while the rest of the batallion watches helplessly…(afterall how many could they kill.. The chests outnumbered the bullets)…
    Had I seen angry mobs (carrying bodies youth killed by my security forces) attacking bunkers and setting ablaze my men without giving two hoots about being fired upon..
    Had I seen Amarnath Yatris and the stuck tourists being provided FREE FOOD AND ACCOMODATION by the MUSLIM locals, while my troops fire on people armed with WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION- Stones…
    Had I seen even our puppet mainstream politicians join the freedom fighters in million march ANTI INDIA rallies just to escape public wrath..
    Had I seen 5 year old kids get bullets from my army for they had been protesting against the tearing apart of the Holy Quran by d same troops..
    Had I seen unarmed people block electricity and water supply to my army camps….

    I WOULD ASK ALL MY COUNTRYMEN TO GO FOR MASS SUICIDES..
    Huh!

    Had I seen even a fraction

  62. lubaid, Yea yea - A kashmiri ! Says:

    First, I don’t reaaly understand why Indians write about kashmir, I mean, they’re Indians, rrright, and we are kashmiri’s.

    that apart, I take this opp. to enlighten you Indians about certain facts.
    One, there is no terrorism in kashmir, they’re our brothers and fighting against india ( the proof : Your army recently martyrd an Al Badr commander and a lac ppl came to pay tributes at his grave, a TERRORISTS grave) sup cut the terrorist crap out.

    Second, You spend on us – DON’T.
    Better take care of the starving people of india who don’t get to eat and don’t get to wear ( Proof : recently concluded study that stated ONE THIRD of the world’s poor live in India).

    third, kashmir is the most dense military occupation of the world, yea you read that right, OCCUPATION and the only people who think it’s not an occupation are INDIANS, lol ! Indians who ?? hahaha !!
    Oh man..anyways !

    there is more to it now, we don’t think kashmiri’s can tolerate indians now, there is a limit to atrocities that indian state has passed by far now.
    and as far as we being with pakistan or independent…

    let me tell you guys, even if being with india provides us with eternal riches and being with pak or independent provides us rags, I can give this in writing on behalf of any kashmiri that we’d prefer RAGS.

    Some how all of kashmir is allergic to the word INDIA.
    Hey, I don’t mean to offend but it is like that and it’s not changing in the future too.
    One last thing, It’s very easy to make a blog and give your opinion but it’s so very INDIAN to thrust an opinion without looking at facts.
    for all the readers, try browing kashmiri newspaper sites and see for yourself the real face of india.
    India for kashmiri’s is just another israel.

  63. BB@B Says:

    Mr lubaid, Yea yea – A kashmiri !, Do u think Kashmir belongs to u..Kashmir belong to the million of Pundit whom u have thrown out. They are determined to take it back..U better go to Porkistan..ur homeland. Dont talk about Kashmir.

  64. Anonymous Guy Says:

    lubaid kashmiri has a point. So in a way so does Alok.

  65. Jimkhansfriend Says:

    @ BB
    You know what, you make me puke! ONE million pandits? I wonder who have them birth? D highest no. of them here at any point of time in d recorded history was 6.8 LAKHS.. You know lakhs? Something followed by FIVE zeros.. Then when d armed insurgency broke out against indian establishment for merger with pakistan or freedom from India, there were 4.23 LAKH pandits in Kashmir valley.. Most of whom left on d insistance of d then communal governor JAGMOHAN who personally visited some influential Pandit homes to ask them to persuade d rest of d community to leave d valley as, I quote Jagmohan, ” … When all Pandits leave this place, I would never think twice before bulldozing a colony.. It ‘ll be all Muslims.”
    So, that was about d number of Pandits.
    Coming to d ownership. Kashmir belongs to all those who were martyred here by you Indians.. And d killer part is, all those martyred HAPPEN to be MUSLIMS..! (That was pure, simple English, you got d ownership issue cleared!)
    You know it could’ve been so simply both d communities, we and d Pandits,had Pandits too met d same fate as us.. but you know.. Your innocent troops, they could only see Muslims in front of d barrel, as d Pandits had left under a well orchestrated plan..

  66. Dhrucker Says:

    I wonder what has happen to all my Kashmiri brothers.. Isn’t it enough for you to despise and forget d Pandits that they left you at d mercy of BRAVE Indian troops at a time when people needed people d most..? While they were getting first class citizen status and treatment (all that admission quota, reservations, etc) all over India, you were shot from point blank range.. Your mothers and sisters were raped by their troops.. You brothers and fathers were being killed religiously.. Your mothers and sisters became half widows, cz their husbands vanished in thin air..
    And you know what, all this is happening even right now? And you want to get them back? Let them deserve first, then they would desire..

  67. Sameer Says:

    Hmm, not bad at all.
    However, disagree with:
    “In a year or two, watch this space for “8 reasons why we should let Kashmir back in”.
    Must never allow that to happen. Go-rot-in-your-own-hell should be kept that way, once they choose that. Good riddance.

  68. BB@B Says:

    Mr Jimkhansfriend, who was behind armed insurgency? Kashimiri Pundits?? Army has to act if the valley is infiltrated with ISI agents. If u have millitants at home, where do the army go to search for them..
    Go thru the blog below and try to understand the reason behind pundits leaving the valley.
    http://thekashmir.wordpress.com/

  69. udayan dasgupta Says:

    fully agree that kashmir will find it extremely difficult to survive as a sovereign state … and will probably beg to get back into india within a couple of years … but this is a presedent that we simply cannot afford to set.

  70. Sohail Says:

    This is for BB@B:
    We never said Kashmir does not belong to you. What we however said and WILL say is that KASHMIR NEVER BELONGED TO INDIA. What more proof do you want for this. Haven’t you seen one million people assemble at Srinagar and shout at the top of their voices- GO INDIA GO. Please confirm from Arundhaty Roy, she has seen it all with her own eyes. And yes—- dont live in a fools paradise. When we go to Pakistan we shall take our land along unlike the indian muslims in 1947 who left their land behind. As far as you are concerned, you have already lost your land and soon you would loose your identity as a Kashmiri Pandit which was preserved here for ages by none other than the Kashmiri Muslim.

  71. Lubaid, a Kashmiri Says:

    Wait, lets not make this communal, this is not a communal Issue.
    I’ll answer a few questions raised !
    one question was about, MILLIONS OF PUNDITS BEING FORCED IN KASHMIR”

    I’m glad that the answer came in the next post from a contributor that this population never exceeded arnd 5 lacs during our armed struggle.
    for the person who raised this point claiming MILLIONS OF pundits should feel ashamed of misleading the discussion (anyone who is not aware about the facts and figures of his own community – well what can i say now).

    as far the the integrity of India is concerned, this is not maharastra or orrisa claming freedom, this is kashmir and kashmiri’s never considered themselves a part of india- never ever.
    You indians always supressed us like you are doing today.
    but you know what, even then, even now and even after 5000 years, even if you wipe out all of the living kashmiri’s and there’s one last kashmiri left, HE WE’D STILL MAINTAIN THAT HE IS NOT AN INDIAN.
    this is the popular sentiment and it cannot be changed with a gun.
    thats it and its so simple.
    like i’ve mentioned in my previous post, earlier it used to be the indian state versus kashmir. Now, after the recent events for us, it has become indians versus kashmiri’s. I don’t find any indian safe in kashmiri territory, not a tourist, not a yatri, not anymore….when there was gujrat or otherwise kashmiri’s practiced restraint despite being an over whelming majority, that cauz we’re not communal unlike indians( now don’t tell me they aren’t – i can write an entire post on this)
    anyways, now kashmiri ppl are filled with hatred towards ordinary indian ppl too, thats really sad to see but doesn’t come as a surprise.

    It’s all very simple if we choose to accept it.
    KASHMIR IS ABOUT KASHMIRI’S AND WE DON’T LIKE INDIA, WE DON’T WANT TO BE WITH INDIA.
    it’s a shame really beyond this point that indian state opresses us and uses force and has to put us under seige just cauz we despise india.

    There is something called SHAME and the indian state has well passed it.
    I mean, this is ridiculous, WE HATE YOU. GET LOST. is the message kashmiris are chanting towards india and indian state says, KASHMIR IS AN ATOOT ANG, lol!
    How loser !
    Anyways, I jes hope the civil society of india comes to the forefront, the people with reasoning make a difference.people like arundathi roy ( some people even ask for her being tried for treason, Why? cauz she said, kashmiri’s are been repressed and killed at will) I hope india stops being a rouge nation when it comes to kashmir.

    How sad for a nation who was repressed itself to behave.
    Sometimes experiencing what we do in kashmir, we wish only if the british never gave India Independence.
    Do i need to say more to enlighten you about the kashmiri perspective.

    @Author : I ‘ve written a few articles that represent out side of the picture, the real picture of indian democracy and military occupation, if you’re intrested to blog them, contact me at my mail Id.

  72. Jimkhansfriend Says:

    @BB&
    Looks who’s talking.. You sure must be a Pandit.. This is how pandits speak.. Err.. This is how they used to speak when THEY WERE HERE! Lol! And yeah, don’t give me this wordpress crap.. More than 80% indians are unemployed, so you’ve enough manpower to write stuff like this..
    Truth is going to prevail.. And d freakin truth is India and Kashmir are TWO seperate entities.. You know when you talk about some thousand year old Indian history, you are actually talking about d thousands of year old KASHMIR history.. Remember d first budhist conference?
    PS: I hope you got d number right. My earlier post had a typo.. I meant , I WONDER WHO GAVE THEM(millions) BIRTH..
    And yeah, read 5.4 instead of 6.8.. My calculator failed me!

  73. Sohail Says:

    I think Indians are so frustrated with the recent Kashmiri uprising that they cant even get their facts right. Kashmiri pundits were regarded as an intellengent lot. Seems they have lost all their delegence to the pollution in India—— It is not only the environmental pollution but also the filth that they are being fed on by the sangh parivaar. We still welcome them with open hands and hearts to live in this pollution and filth free valley as the citizens of an INDEPENDENT JAMMU & KASHMIR. India better let kashmir go. This is for her on good.BELIEVE ME. NA SAMJHOGE TO MIT JAOGE AE HINDUSTAN WALO, TUMHARI DASTAN BHI NA HOGI DASTANON MEIN.

  74. Fvxxan, Kashmir Says:

    @ udayan dasgupta

    “… and will probably beg to get back into india within a couple of years …”

    You amuse me..!!
    Your Gandhi , Nehru, Shardar Patel, and many more had predicted a similar fate for Pakistan as well!! That was in 1947! Wake up! Wake THEM up too! This is 2008!! 61 years to be exact! Yeah, Pakistan is politically very LESS stable than what India is.. BUT :
    1) It’s one hundred thousand times less communal! Atleast there has never been attack on any of the minorities there..No, NEVER. Had there been one, I personally don’t think Indian media (which usually dedicated hours on news items like KYA RAKHI SAWANT NE KAALE RANG KE UNDERGARMENTS PEHNE THAY?? SMS kijiye 2525 par) would ever skip it..
    Don’t give me shit that there’s sectarian voilence.. The point we are raising is COMMUNAL violence against minorities..
    2) Its as big (may be even bigger) a nuclear power as India! (Oh come on! don’t tell me its d Chinese collaboration! Doesn’t India seek ‘technical assistance’ from the US, FRANCE, RUSSIA?) It proliferated?? yeah, so?? Atleast there were takers!!
    3) We should also take into account that Pakistan was an ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ENTITY on 14 Aug 47.. Have a look now! Indians are begging US to do something with Pakistan! Or wait, better ask any Pak returned INdian to compare what he saw there with what he sees in Indian METROPOLITANS.. I’m sure, you might not like his reply if he’s honest!
    4) It has made India bleed all these 61 years.. It has crushed Indian arrogance and has brought it down on d dialogue table! Oh God! Can you imagine! “Kal ka Launda” aaj table pe mudda suljhane ki baat karta hai! You know what I mean!! We Kashmiris take inspiration from Pakistan!
    5) Which of the two countries is dealing with 20 insurgencies in 29 states!!! (yeah, Yeah, that was crude!! Sad but true!) OKay wait?? Baluchistan, right?? And?? And?? And?? lolllll!! There too a few hundred Indian agents pumping in money to d tribals!! Do you want me to count the Indian insurgencies?!? lol! You tell me, its Pak who’s doing it in kashmir.. Doing what?? Getting millions of UNARMED COMMONERS on roads to shout slogans against India, and in favor of Pakistan and Freedom?? Quite an ask, hmmm?? Ok, agreed.. What d heck is d Indian intelligence doing then!!?! Baby sitting the “TERRORISTS”? And who’s doing it in Khalistan (err.. I meant Punjab) Gujrat, Telanga rashtra (What’s that state called?) and every state from east to north?? Some paper was telling me about people doing something FISHY in Kerala and Tamil Nadu.. What was that??
    And Yeah yeah, tell me.. What was with all those reports of barging into “TERRORIST CAMPS” in Azad Kashmir ‘ US in Afghanistan ‘ style!! lolllll!! You know what, why not develop a computer game instead!!

    Brother udayan dasgupta .. You keep dreaming.. even better, reading what Indian lobby in the US and UK spending billions on so that the lies be published against Pakistan in international magazines of repute! Your Gandhi , Nehru, Shardar Patel and millions more were proved wrong, you’d as well.. INshaallah.. For we place our trust in Allah, d Almighty.

    PS: What did you guys name that game?!?

  75. BB@B Says:

    Jimkhansfriend, I am not a Kashmiri Pundit and never been to Kashmir. Whatever little knowledge I have about Kashmir and its problem is through many blog like this and like thekashmir.wordpress.com.
    We get to hear both side of story through these blogs. I dont think an outsider like me will ever get to know the truth as there are equal number of people in J&K state which will oppose your views on the whole matter. The fact is we can never have a healthy discussion on this as it will always turn into religion based issue. I think this issue has been discussed in length and breadth on many blogs and dont want to go through the whole cycle again. It does not matter whether I accept ur view or not..as there are one billion people like me and every concerned citizen have some reason to believe or not to believe people like you and others with exactly opposite line of thought. At the end, we just want peace in the valley. Lets hope and pray our leaders solve this issue once and for all so that we can enjoy rest of our beautiful life.

  76. Sameer Says:

    @Fvxxan

    You really mean that !!!!???? I mean, you really really want to be like Pak ? You really want to “be the pesk” whose claim to fame includes being able to bother a nation on the move, economically, and otherwise.

    Its sad. I hope for the sake of the people of Kashmir, that there are more who do NOT think like you than those who do.

    Yeah India’s surely got more communal issues (tho the vastly different semantics between communal/sectarian/etc violence elude me) – in fact we’ve also got ethnic, economic differences and violence that you missed out on.

    The huge difference is, as a country, as a very very complex country where everything and its opposite not only exists, but is debated, accepted, celebrated, and always has a voice, we try real hard at making it word. Marriages, of people, of minds, cultures, and even individuals, need effort. There are clashes of egos, there are differences that sometimes seem acute. But the base assumption is that look-here-we-gotta-live-together-so-let’s-figure-a-way-out.

    Which is why, despite being the most affected country in terms of terrorism, internal strife, and external meddling, India’s shaping up great. Cause the ideas that bind it together are larger than parochial ideas about religion, ethnicity, immediate needs and benefits.

    But, given your utterances, you won’t understand. You’d rather take pride in “bleeding your neighbours for 61 years” and stockpiling a huge nuclear ego.

    I hope more Kashmiris are like the few I’ve met in my life. Else, Alvida my friend, and I hope it turns out ok for you guys, though I don’t think that’s likely.

    Oh yeah, we have the time, means and economic muscle to be able to jest about people’s unmentionables, btw. Oof.

  77. Hiker Says:

    All Porki intruders,

    Maybe it is time for you guys to start preparing mentally for Taliban rule.
    Oh and stop dreaming about Kashmir.

  78. lazybug Says:

    good one. valid points, i must say.

  79. krishna Says:

    (We Kashmiris take inspiration from Pakistan!) Oh really do you know what really is happening in POK, or the blood letting between shias and sunnis there or the way mohajirs (yep mush was one ) get treated. Grow up kiddo!

  80. The Mind-Body Politic » Why Kashmir Should Go Its Way Says:

    […] the rest at Churumuri. Sphere: Related […]

  81. Aijaz Says:

    I think a common Kashmiri muslim is never going to accept India as his/her country even if India spends millions of dollars here. It is just going waste here. I think India should better concentrate on those people who have no shelter, no food to eat and no clothes to wear, in different parts of the country. Good sense should prevail upon Indian leadership and try to know hard facts about Kashmir.

  82. Doddi Buddi Says:

    FvXXan,

    Clearly you are late for your lobotomy appointment!

  83. Fvxxan Says:

    @ krishna , Doddi Buddi , Hiker

    Hello! Hello! Hello!
    Why do you guys have to prove me blatantly right by showing up with these posts…?!?!?

    Yeah, we all know India as a land of…. ok wait.. You know what you guys are!!

    Cheers!

  84. Fvxxan Says:

    @ Sameer

    [You really mean that !!!!???? I mean, you really really want to be like Pak ? You really want to “be the pesk” whose claim to fame includes being able to bother a nation on the move, economically, and otherwise.]

    Yes, WE really mean that.

    [Its sad. I hope for the sake of the people of Kashmir, that there are more who do NOT think like you than those who do.]

    Yeah, sad for YOU. And I’m sorry for all you Indians out there for there are MORE who think like me – ‘HARSHER’ than me – than those who don’t think like me. And the ones who do not think like me are;
    1) The ones who think, as I said, harsher.
    2) And the ones who are a bit ‘mild’ (Yeah, a misplaced word! You got d essence though!) and want freedom through PEACEFUL means. The bottom line is same though. Freedom from Indian yoke. :-)

    [Yeah India’s surely got more communal issues (though the vastly different semantics between communal/sectarian/etc violence elude me) – in fact we’ve also got ethnic, economic differences and violence that you missed out on.]

    Sectarian: Of, relating to, or characteristic of a sect. Sectarianism is intolerance arising from attaching importance to perceived differences between subdivisions within a group.

    Communal: Communalism is BIGOTRY, HATRED, INTOLERANCE and most of the times VIOLENCE arising against people of OTHER faiths and beliefs. It’s loyalty and commitment to the interests of your own minority (majority in India’s case!) or ethnic group rather than to society as a whole

    That should help.

    [The huge difference is, as a country…… that look-here-we-gotta-live-together-so-let’s-figure-a-way-out.]

    Yes, brother.. India is a huge country.. with an even huger corrupt ego that has made it turn a blind eye to what thousands like me ‘ve been writing and would. Yes, India is a very huge country where the majority practices Hinduism. Followed by a proportionately VERY LOW number of Muslims, Sikhs, Christians, Budhists and Harijans (I’m not sure about the last one though.. This is not to confuse d readers but I really am not sure if Harijans are considered as a part of d Hindu society) etc almost each of whom ‘ve been victims of PLANNED, MAJOR STRATEGIC MASSACRES perpetrated by the majority (Read Hindus). Yes, India is a country where everything and its opposite not only exists, but is debated (LOL! HUMOUR ME! DEBATED WHERE? IN THEIR NEIGHBORHOODS TURNED INTO BATTLEFIELDS! OR IN THEIR HOMES! OR IN THEIR PLACES OF WORSHIP! ..When do they plan to complete what is now Babri Masjid land?.. OR IN PRINCIPALS’ CABINS WHERE THEY ‘DEBATE’ WHERE ELSE SHOULD A PARTICULAR STUDENT OF A PARTICULAR COMMUNITY BE DENIED ADMISSION!) , accepted ( *snores*) and celebrated (LOL! CELEBRATED BY THE MAJORITY!! ALL THOSE PADH YATRAS AND RATH YATRAS!! TO CELEBRATE THE VICTORY OF SANANTAN DHARM OVER THE GENERALLY ACCEPTED, DEBATED AND CELEBRATED MINORITY!! :-)) And yes brother, There are clashes of egos, there are differences that sometimes seem acute. But the base assumption is that look-here-we-gotta-live-together-so-let’s-figure-a-way-out. ( A WAY OUT!! WHETHER TO CLEAN OFF THE MINORITY OR SEND THEM PACKING ACROSS D BORDER!)

    [Which is why, despite being the most ….. about religion, ethnicity, immediate needs and benefits. ]

    See we have a situation here.. We place our religion above everything else.. For we are MUSLIMS first and Pakistanis, Kashmiris etc later.. Yeah India is still shaping up great as an economic power.. Nothing more. I hope you understand Urdu, or Hindi for that matter, cz what I’m going to write makes a good read in either of these languages and not English. Rupiyon ke aagay Ta’waafei’n (Prostitutes) jhukti, naachti, gaati hain, Mard nahi.

    [But, given your ……and stockpiling a huge nuclear ego.]

    And what exactly does a country do when it’s at war with another?

    [I hope more Kashmiris are like ….though I don’t think that’s likely.]

    i hope when we part, we’ll still live peacefully as neighbours offcourse unless India keeps on flexing it’s ‘economic and millitary muscle’. :-)
    Don’t forget the passport and a visa though whenever you want come over.

    [Oh yeah,… btw. Oof.]

    Refer to the Urdu line above.

    Cheers.

  85. Vinay Says:

    Pakistan is a tumour, and it is politically unstable, a dangerous failed state. (These are not my words. Just google for ‘Pakistan Failed State’).

    Nuclear weapons indeed! India has many more nuclear weapons than Pak, but that is not the point. There are very very low chances of nuclear weapons being used in a war. That said, talk about military strength. Pakistan will be put back by 20 years if there is a war today.

    Pakistan does not have an economy to speak of. India has several problems, and Indians are the first people to criticize their country and highlight the problems. If you don’t believe me, check out some of the other posts on this blog. We recognize that there are problems which need to be solved. But at least the economy is progressing. India is counted as one of the world’s major economic powers today. Just travel to the US or Europe, Bangalore is a feared word for reasons well known!

    Pakistan is a country which several people have not even heard of. Watch the Pakistani movie ‘Khuda Kay Liye’ and see the reaction of the art student girl when the Pakistani student says that he’s from Pakistan.

    YES, India has LOTS of problems in terms of economic and social equality, crime, poverty, infrastructure, etc. etc. But please do not compare it with Pakistan. If you want inspiration, there are several better places to derive inspiration from.

  86. Sameer Says:

    @Fvxxan

    U’re hyper-aggressive. You’ve also made up your mind about some “facts” about India. I cannot get you to see the larger concept that defines this place.

    “Hinduism” – its not even practiced in the traditional sense – but more lived day to day. I do not remember when I last went to a temple. And I do not know what caste my maid is from, or what religion the chef at the last restaurant I ate at adheres to. In regular civil society inside India, those are non-issues. Yes, differences flare up – often they’re are caused to – from time to time. There are vested interests at play, like what happened in Jammu, or Orissa. But thats true at our workplaces, in our families. The reaction to them is not separation, but reconciliation, and a base belief that we need to make it work.

    If you believe that people of all hues do NOT find a voice in India – political, religious, cultural, whatever – you just do not understand the notion of this land. Its not about the country, its about the ethos of multiple truths, “tark-vitark” thats always been part of it. Of course there are sharp, ugly reactions once in a while, but over time, India’s proven to be larger than its differences.

    Look at the number of Indians who’re almost debating for your cause! Do you think such voices would be permitted, even in other large western democracies, much less in parochial, feudal setups ? Its because we believe that mere disagreements are not cause enough to get at each others’ throats. Disagreements bring out points of view – and they’re good. Absolutism is not. In india, can speak against my government, my community (at least I can), and basically for and against anything without being considered a traitor. Sure there’s lots of intolerance too, and grows from time to time. But, as a civilization, we’ve eventually rejected that.

    Also look at the number of Indians who have gripes of all kinds against our own governments. We haven’t always had free and fair elections. We haven’t had the kind of autonomy Kashmir has enjoyed. We have – in any part of the country – never received the kind of financial stimulus that the GoI has tried to provide J&K. Hardly means that we sulk, and make noises about breaking away. Hey bro, who doesn’t have problems ? Do you have a clue how terrible its been in the Naxalite infested regions ? But hey. we’ll solve it, and we’ll move ahead. We will not play victim and demand a divorce for every little argument and spat we have.

    But who am I trying to explain to. You want to highlight the differences, and probably believe all the -ves fed to you. And since you really want to, you will. Like I said, goodbye, and I hope you find peace, properity inside those hard(line) boundaries you seek to create. I hope once you have your great governance and solid growth that you think you’ll manage once the GoI stops “exploting” you, or whatever.

  87. Jimkhansfriend. Says:

    As you guys were discussing this here, kashmiri muslims were denied access food, water, electricity, baby food, life saving drugs.. People died in hospitals for d want of cotton and bandages as they lost blood cz d brave indian army had enforced an emergency and were even denying unlocking d hospital main gates. Having said that, even if they would’ve unlocked where would d life saving drugs and bandage come from? D army was ‘facilitating’ d economic blockade as well..

  88. Hiker Says:

    @Fvxxan
    “See we have a situation here.. We place our religion above everything else.. For we are MUSLIMS first and Pakistanis, ”

    Well, that explains why you guys are still in stone age…convict the rape victim instead of the rapist.

  89. krishna Says:

    @Fvxxan your comments speak for your class nothing else needs to be said

  90. BB@B Says:

    Just wondering why suicide bomb squad is so peculiar about ismalic terrorist. May be they are expert in false propaganda, the way they had for recent economic blockade in jammu ( false propaganda) and link everything with “Islaam is in Danger”.

    Today’s news..Pakistani is also becoming victim of islamic terrorist.

    http://www.dawn.net/wps/wcm/connect/Dawn%20Content%20Library/dawn/news/pakistan/nwfp/kurram+death+toll+rises+to+61

  91. Anonymous Guy Says:

    Vinay,

    “Just travel to the US or Europe, Bangalore is a feared word for reasons well known!”

    I am interested – tell me!

  92. Letting Kashmir Go | DesiPundit Says:

    […] Prasanna at Churumuri makes an contrarian argument for letting Kashmir go. I like #8 [hat tip: Twilight Fairy]. I like #8 but then whom do we argue […]

  93. RukmaniRam Says:

    Extremely insightful.

    Do we give in to the other states as well? :P

  94. Vinay Says:

    Anonymous Guy:

    I have a lot to speak about this topic, and several personal experiences. Not here though, its not the right post. There’ll be several subsequent posts where we can discuss this.

  95. Kash22 Says:

    In all the arguments to and fro what everyone including Ms. Arundati Roy forget is, ‘Kashmiri Pandits’ who were driven out of their land due to so called ethnic cleansing. How do we get our homes back??? is the question I ask you. Why not give away your Karnataka or Punjab instead of my home land I ask you and others giving opinion about facts little known to them.

  96. BB@B Says:

    excellent analysis by Colonel Dr Anil A Athale (retd) about the whole situation in J&K

    http://www.rediff.com/news/2008/sep/02guest.htm

  97. dhruv Says:

    I totally agree with you man. All these tiny miny separatists groups asking for independence!!! They never realize what the hell are they going to do if they actually have a country to manage. They would be at India’s mercy for every thing!!

  98. Dhruv Mittal Says:

    No matter how bad the situation becomes you dont give up something…..if your mother gets paralysed and is a liability on you will you let her go? By this logic we should hand over Bihar to Bangladesh. Please dont write such posts which encourage regionalism and basically are anti national. Jai hind.

  99. Kashmiri Pandit Says:

    I am one of the nearly four hundred thousand Kashmiri Panidts who were forced to flee their homeland in 1989.
    Needless to say, what happens to Kashmir affects us directly. A secession would mean the end of Kashmiri Hindu culture forever.
    And yet, I would be willing to vote for Kashmir’s secession from India, under two conditions.
    First, They will et only Muslim majority Kashmir, not Hindu majority Jammu and Buddhist majority Ladakh.
    Second, Kashmiri Muslims have to take the entire Indian Muslim population along, because leaving them behind them would lead to a repeat of the partition time Muslim-Hindu riots.
    Indeed, were Bihar situated along the Pakistani border, I would even support handing adding that state to Kashmir.

    Kashmir can meld itself with Pakistan and easily accomadate the entire Indian Muslim population.
    This could also help Pakistan, where urdu speaking Muhajirs would finally have some bargaining power against Punjabi dominated Pakistani institutions.
    Let’s do it. Everybody will be happy. yea!

  100. Sandeep Says:

    I agree, let Kashmir valley go based on the Chenab formula. Our soldiers should not defend a land where they are hated. Enough is enough.

  101. Mohammad Khan Says:

    Ha ha, awesome! Keep writing more!

  102. Mitul Says:

    how about shooting down every separatists and protesters in Kashmir until there are none left.

  103. Sayan Says:

    Hah hah hah—

    If Kashmir goes to Pakistan–then Arundhati Roy will become JOBLESS—hahahaha

  104. Sayan Says:

    See the above musus

    heh heh heh–they written it few months ago—and today on 1st May their PM is asking for world’s help to counter their created terrorism.

    hahah—oh ho ho hohohoh.

  105. anushka Says:

    if kashmir comes to india what garantee can we give that we will further develop kasmir and how can we change our language to adjust kashmirs language

  106. chinmay Says:

    it is high time that those ruling india realised that a vast majority of kashmiris dislike being ruled by india.kashmir is not a political problem but a
    communal problem and no amount of white washing will be able to cover that up.pakistan was craeted by jinnah as he realised that irreconcilable differences exsisted between hindus and muslims.muslim majority kashmir hates being ruled by hindu majority india.india better let go kashmir.it should atleast be able to minimise muslim population growth in other states.kashmir will have no option bo to merge with pakistan

  107. prof Ghulam Mohyudddin wani Says:

    Dear Readers,
    I have some answers to few questions asked by many readers.
    1.We have merly 2-3 % KASHMIRI pANDITS ,When 20-25% muslims in India can make India as their home why should 2-3% KAHMIRI PANDITS NOT to choose with Kashmir.Why should they always use gamicks and not truth to agrue their Migration.Kashmir has 40-45% SERVING OFFICIALS AND OFFICERS from 2-3% kahmiri Hindu.dURING 1990 THE GOVERNER WAS A HINDU,CS AND DG POLICE WAS TOO A hINDU.An hindu army of 7 lakhs for protection of 2 lac hindus or Kashmir Pandits and if still forces then to migrate looks absurd.The truth is after the official exodus of Kashmiri Pandits for Political reasons the kashmir muslims were murdered,masacered,raped,even young childern raped by none but those who are paid from their Taxs to provide them security.If an army of 7 lacs was unable to protect 2 lac pandits,the whole India shouls hang in shame ,espacially when the same army has looted ,killed,raped,millions of kashmirri muslims and a few kashmiri pandits too who did not migrate.There are a sizable population of Kashmiri pandits still in Kashmir,enjoying and living a better life with out fear.Is there a history in India protecting minority muslims.No we have only incidents of burning their MPS,MOSQUES IN BRAOD DAY LIGHT,yet none speaks a world.The number of muslims killed in last 60 years in India are 100 times the population of Kashmir pandits in KASHMIR.aLL CHIEF SEC,DG POLICE ARE FROM THIS COMMUNITY.iF THEY COULD NOT PROTECT THEM THEY ARE TO BE BLAMED.tHE GOVERNOR,CM,DG POLICE ,ALL IAS,IPS OFFICERS,vc of universities,chairman of psc and other home or chief ministers office are Hindus ,still they cry foul.This clearly prove the India agents have lost their writ to rule Kashmir under siehe.The uno resolution give fair chance to all to decide.
    2.Some KP SAID WE ARE WITH KASHMIRAYAT BUT WHAT IS aZADI AND gOD IS one.Well friends go to original vedas they also say God is one,MAHATMA SAD gOD IS A MISNOMER BROUGHT BY bRITISH.GOD IS ONE.All hindu priests,scholar too profess it ,why should any one fear from this universal truth.
    Kashmir has been and will be a ecomomic viable state as strong as Isreal.Let all KP AND THOSE IN ajk serving in pak beaurocracy join to built our independent satate.See my article on http://www.articlebase.com for more.When kashmiri haksars,qurashi,raseed can control and be sucessful planners for Pakistan and India why not for their own state.We more than hundreds kashmiris hindus and muslims serving as notable plannaers,agriculturalists and administers in the twin countries and world I have nstain to doubt we together shall sustain the economy.A mehr example a kg of Rice production in Punjab and Haryana need s 5000 litres of Kashmir water.If we charge them a one paisa cost per liter water our whole expenditure on food is over.Same is for electricity. read more or write me .
    The only solution to kashmir is a greater kashmir united and secula with every one to have his rights protected.

  108. prof Ghulam Mohyudddin wani Says:

    We the kashmiri muslims and pandits have wrtten and made rules for India and pakistan,We will inshaallah frame a constitution of own. grauenting equal rights to Hindus,muslms,dogras,gujars,ladakhies.We admit the Indian and pakistani riles have been indifferrent to Kashmiri culture,talents and economy.Let us all unite and have a kashmir of Badshah.Yes we all are ethinically one.Our culture,food and costoms are same.WE have to be humans and live inpeace.WE SHOULD AVOID TO SPEAK FOR OUR REPRESSORS BE IT INDIA ,RAW/ISI AGENTS OR MAINSTREAM POLITISIANS IN INDAIN OR PAK OCCUPIED KASHMIR.

  109. Vishnu Mahant Says:

    Eight reasons to loose Kashmir may sound good to some people, but it will no solve any problem. Defending one’s country does not mean running away from responsibility. If terrorists can dictate how India conducts her business, India has no business being a nation.
    Pakistan’s 22 percent Hindus have disappeared, Kashmir valley is almost all Muslims today, what will happen to whole of Kashmir tomorrow? Buddhist, Hindus and Sikhs will be there no more!
    If China knows how to keep and add to their territories, why can’t India learn from it?
    The first step should be to divide J&K in to three states: Kashmir Valley, Jammu and Leh. Independent J&K will be bringing Pakistani fanatics closer to India. Demanding Azadi is such a hollow word when Kashmiris get more than rest of India. If you do not protect real Kishmiris, they all will be forced to join the terrorist, not willingly but by fear!

  110. Aziz Kashmiri Says:

    No routes into China??? Check your GK, before Indians came into Kashmir, Kashmiris mainly traded with central Asia and perhaps u don’t know but it was India that closed up all of Kashmirs borders, so yes we will trade with India but that won’t stop us from trading with other countries plus try n feed 40% of your starving population first(World Bank stats)……On having Nuclear rivals, how are Bhutan and Nepal surviving sandwiched between arch enemies China n India both of whom r Nuclear states????. About Kashmiris probably never surviving without India…….ha ha ha nothing could be more ridiculous n partisan-HOW did we survive without Indian economy for thousands upon thousands of years till the Mughal Emperor Akbar came in n brought the great Indian misery to our house-holds……….The Argumentative Indians as aptly quoted by an ex-Indian Amartya Sen

  111. Vinay Says:

    Aziz Kashmiri:

    Shove your “starving population” statistics up your ass.

    At least India is doing incredibly well in getting those people out of poverty. Let us talk 10-15 years down the line. Your Gods, the Pakis however, will be a failed state by then.

    If you want to show your Pakistaniyat by behaving like the Pakis here, reeling off poverty statistics, no one is really preventing you from going to POK/”Azad” Kashmir/whatever. Leave this part of Kashmir to those who want to stay in a democratic secular nation and be part of the economic growth.

  112. prakash Says:

    @Vinay

    This ” Let us talk 10-15 years down the line.” is said from about 50 years now.

    Indian army as we know is always defeated . They are better building roads and going to US for peacekeeping and dealing corrupt MIGs. All are northIndians in army. South has a meagre percent in army . So the technology /brains used is always sub standard and imported. sites get hacked and what nots.

    I don’t see any problems in leaving Kashmir independent. They have a healthy mix of original trader muslim community and buddhists, except in borders where we can see not a talibani kind, but small bombs throwing amateur separatists.

    Yes Delhi will get good apples if they build train routes to Srinagar.

    Delhi is major problem . It doesnt care anyone except its own borders. You must have seen Gurgaon . Its most expensive.and all states next to Delhi are so small compared to rest of India even with meagre populations and they have a union territory also. Even now Telangana protests are neglected.So everyone in Delhi wants to be Boss of others and rule them.

    I think majority of Indians will vote with Arundhati. We south Indians who don’t eat Delhi’s food are with you Kashmiris. We will visit you with low cost carriers and you people can trade best apples with us.

  113. twistleton Says:

    What a looong thread, and still active!

    Until the Valley gets a proper chance at a normal life, strife will continue.

    The state cannot ride rough-shod over people and expect peace. As if peace is only the people’s responsibility.

    You can’t have the cake and eat it too and then explain it all away as patriotism… :D

  114. Vinay Says:

    Prakash:

    Are you another avatar of that loony nut Murthy?

    Let us look at your arguments. No matter what you think of the Indian Army, it did win most wars that we’ve fought – notable exception being 1962 war with China. Your statement shows that you don’t know much about history.

    Coming to the Telangana agitation. I don’t like “Delhi” myself, but retards like you cannot see one basic fact. “Delhi” had already granted Telangana in 2010. Why was it forced to backpedal? Because of immense pressure and opposition from Andhraites.

    So what do you say now, you pile of turd? The South Indian coastal Andhraites are the ones who are really “oppressing and ruling” the Telanganaites. Just ask anyone in Telangana.

    No, you are wrong – the majority of Indians do not vote with Arundhati. Most of them will vote for shooting closet Pakis like you though.

    And are you fucking mad? You say states next to Delhi are “small”? What shit is this?

    Churumuri, is this scumbag posting from India, or is he a freaking Paki? His IQ level is low enough to be compared to a piece of sun-dried poop anyway.

  115. Gaby Says:

    Vinay- what rattled your cage- on second thoughts your cage is always in a rattled state:)

  116. Vinay Says:

    Gaby:

    Come on Gaby. Don’t tell me it isn’t “Rattling enough”. The intention of that post was to “rattle” – in short a troll – and I went and fed it. :)

    Look, there is enough to be pissed about when it comes to the attitude of some “Naarth Indians” with respect to their ideas of language, and their ideas of India.

    However, unadulterated shit must be called out for what it is.

    Take this Telangana case for example. When Chidu announced Telangana formation in 2010, there was a lot of chest beating on one of the well known “save Kannada” blogs. The chest beating was about how the center wants to “divide and rule” the rest of India. And now we have this sun-dried poop saying that the center wants to “rule” by NOT giving Telangana.

    Sometimes, one needs to understand that not everything is part of a grand conspiracy. There is a genuine Telangana movement, and the center just does not know what to do about it, since there is an equally fierce anti-Telangana movement.

    And whether he likes it or not, even though there are notable differences between “South and North Indians”, essentially, both share very similar characteristics in terms of mediocrity and “chalta hai” attitude. While the fighting divisions in the Army are comprised of mainly “Naaarth Indians”, all our great PSUs like HAL, NAL, DRDO, etc. have had a sizeable portion of Southies throughout history. If we were to take his words as fact, we should have had a world-beating mil-Ind complex by now!!

    As far as “majority of South Indians standing with Arundhati bitchy Roy” goes, the comments on this page show the reality. I’m actually surprised that more people have not called out the sun-dried poop for his asinine brain farts on this thread.

  117. uplift Says:

    I take objections on @Vinay’s comments here.

    But he can’t use the abusive language against everyone.

    I am a kannadiga and take pride in truth and am not blinded by delhi nationalism. i dont see any problems in keeing peace above borders. that is what is followed when we fight with Tamil nadu or Maharashtra.

    In the same way the differences and violence between sikh and a muslim is lesser as of now in border….

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