So, how many Dalit or tribal friends do you have?

Shekhar Gupta in the Indian Express:

“…at a recent institutional investors’ conference which I was addressing on contemporary Indian politics.

“Just a little bit disconcerted by how many questions were being asked on the “curse” of caste-based reservations, I did something wicked. This was a crowd of nearly 500 of the best paid, globalised Indian finance whiz-kids, in hundred-dollar Hermes ties, seven-figure (in dollars) bonuses and fancy cars.

“‘We have here, fellow Indians with the finest jobs in the world, mostly with an IIT/ IIM education. Both institutions have also had caste-based reservations for ever. So how many of you here are tribal or Dalit?’

“Not a single hand came up.

“Sensing a QED moment, I turned the knife. ‘Okay, please tell me how many of you at least count a Dalit or a tribal among your friends or acquaintances? Or how many of you have even shaken hands with a tribal or a Dalit?’

“Not a single hand came up again.”

Read the full article: Our Singapore fantasy

Also read: Is Vijaya Karnataka ready for a Dalit editor?

‘Brahmins need a deeksha to awaken empathy’

What’s in a name? A key to a casteless society

CHURUMURI POLL: Are Dalits being taken for a ride?

CHURUMURI POLL: Is Dalit Dinakaran above the law?

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48 Responses to “So, how many Dalit or tribal friends do you have?”

  1. voyeur Says:

    This could be turned against Shekar Gupta himself. he is the one who addresses conferences not attended by any Dalit at all. Who was the last Dalit he interviewed in “Walk the talk?” Does that program have a reservation?

    Is this really believable? 500 people go to schools and colleges where Dalits and tribals are represented by means of affirmative action and not one of them has ever shook hands with a Dalit.
    There is even a positive way of seeing this. They didn’t shake hands with Dalits. They shook hands with friends. Which is what I do day in and day out. I did not befriend a Dalit. That would be tokenism. I befriended an amazing person who happens to be a Dalit. Only when I think about the caste backgrounds of my good friends do I realize in my heart (which has no reservations – in every sense of the term) the Dalit representation is greater than any government institution. Indeed a third of my closest friends are Dalit/tribals. For this I have affirmative action to thank though. Maybe I wouldn’t have gotten exposure to this diversity of our country if it weren’t for the reservations in my college.

  2. satte pe satta Says:

    I don’t know why these pseudo intellectuals pull arguments out of their ass.

    I might not have shaken hands with a tribal because I don’t greet that way. How many AIDs patients does Shekhar know? How many AIDs patients has he shaken hands with?

    What is this ass pulling questions supposed to achieve. A useless article linked on a useless blog entry.

  3. A.Murthy Says:

    “a crowd of nearly 500 of the best paid, globalised Indian finance whiz-kids, in hundred-dollar Hermes ties, seven-figure (in dollars) bonuses and fancy cars”

    Come on dude /dadda , wrong question wrong time. May be you have something else on mind to propagate TRP of your article adding dalit word.

    Dalits are confined to Bihar chattisgarh etc what are these kids got to do with them?

    Such a capitalistic aura and you are not sensitive?

    How many of you share your wives ? would have got more marx.

    or if north indians which obviously will be the case with booming surnames it should be

  4. Msadhusudhan B S Says:

    Why there is always some one call himself intellectual attacks Brahmins ? what they expect from Brahmins , should they move out from India ? better these people create a separate state for Brahmins and let all live peacefully .
    Its always most tender part we attack , so called buddijeevis are not dare to attack Lingayaths , Vakkaligas and Muslims but Brahmins are very unorganized and lethargic to protest , I hope Brahmins also approach court on the basis of Jaathi Nindane

  5. sanjeeva Says:

    An arrogant question by a stupid person. Mr. Gupta appears to be living still in 19th century. The dalits have gradually come out of their complex if any and are progressing, both economically and socially. But people like Mr. Gupta have started getting the complex. Poor man!

  6. Objectivist Mantra Says:

    What Shekhar Gupta had said in his excellent article should be taken in full context. He is simply making the point that the whole Civil Society movement is anti-democracy. This is correct.

    A bunch of elites (who have never fought an election) get together and they are trying to define the agenda for the entire country.

    What about tribals, dalits, untouchables, poverty stricken, unemployed Indians like ME! Why is our voice not being heard? Why is the voice of countless other unwashed Indians not being heard?

    Why is the Civil Society not talking about economic, political and social reforms? All they want to do is create a super-powerful institution that will lord over elected politicians. At least the politicians can be voted out, but there is no way for us to vote out the saints who own the Civil Society.

    The Civil Society aims to be NAC on steroids.

    Shekhar Gupta is right when he is subtly trying to point out that majority of the politicians who have been targetted by this anti-corruption witch-hunt are from the dalit community. Why is this so?

    The truth is that ever since Independence india has been ruled by higher caste intellectuals. If these intellectuals are so bright and honest, then why is the country poor and corrupt?

    We can’t allow a bunch of high-profile intellectuals to subvert the democratic process, even if this is being done in the name of fighting democracy. All communities and castes must be involved in this debate, otherwise it is going to go nowhere.

    Shekhar Gupta is specially blessed by Goddess Saraswati and that is why he is writing such great articles these days.

  7. Ganesh Babu S Says:

    I agree totally with voyeur. I have a lot of friends and among them many are from the reserved back ground. But I never had such a thought of casteism when move along with them in my life. Why does the society remains us that such a difference persists.

  8. Yella Ok Says:

    Shekhar Gupta makes the most silly argument – a corrupt person is corrupt irrespective of caste. He presumes that arvind kejriwal’s ire against madhu koda and raja is because of their caste and not because of corruption. Sure, he does not want “rotten” politics to change; wants slow-fix for the simplest problems in governance also; wants to bring in caste dimensions in what are class problems; would rather want lokpal bill to take another 50 years than 50 days – he is afterall a beneficiary of the rotten politician to not want these things.
    Where is any contempt for voters in the lokpal bill agitation, one fails to understand? by the way, any instances of his anger against NAC and their law drafting / law making process? is that anti-democratic or not?

    My cable wallah had disconnected NDTV and relted channels for a couple of months and has now revived it. Gives me the bother of wasting time to skip that channel with people like barkha and shekhar.

  9. T Azeez Luthfullah Says:

    Kudos to Shekar Gupta. He is bold. He is brave. He has left the cat out of the bag.
    In the end it is all about caste, stupid. In this nation, ultimately what matters is nothing but caste.
    When two Indians meet in train or bus or aeroplane or whatever, they may discuss everything under the sun. But in between the conversation there will be always an attempt to know the caste. First they would try to guess it by knowing each other’s name. Then they would try to guess it by the place of birth.
    Islam is the best solution to eradicate this caste menace.

  10. manja Says:

    As usual people here will go all out to make this Gupta or whoever it is the problem guy while not one word on why Dalits havent made it yet.

  11. Mysore Peshva Says:

    Dear Thiru. Luthfullah,

    “Islam is the best solution” for anything?? Hahahah! Thanks for the laughs, dear sir.

    — Your friend, MP.

  12. parijataka Says:

    Let the current dispensation, of which Shekhar Gupta is very much a part of, set an example by appointing a Dalit or tribal as head of the government (a position reserved for members of The Family as the recent clamour by ruling party minions implies) or at least as a Cabinet Minister or say have reservation in jobs for journalists. How about that Shekhar ? So how many dalits and/or tribals does NDTV or Indian Express hire as a conscious decision ? Walk the talk Shekhar ji!

  13. Vinay Says:

    T Azeez Luthfullah:

    Shia Islam, Sunni Islam, or Ahmadiya Islam?

    Thanks but no thanks, we don’t want to become a Jihadi center like Pakistan.

  14. Nik Says:

    Azeez whatever, keep your islam bottled up in your ass, nobody needs it.

  15. k Says:

    I think the point is that the reservations aren’t working – if one defines “working” as meaning “you will get a job with $100 Hermes ties and 7 figure dollar bonuses”

    In other words, the reservation system needs to be overhauled. But only if you buy the premise that it should put a fair percentage of the reserved into the highest paying job. Buying this premise, as it appears, is a bit difficult.

  16. Not A Witty Nick Says:

    That means people no longer care about what caste their friends belong to!

  17. Not A Witty Nick Says:

    I bet they would not know their friends’ religious identity!

  18. Lord Of The Universe Says:

    Shekar Gupta is blessed with both Godess Saraswati and he is abusing it to make more Lakshmi for his pockets.

    For him and his ilk, a transparent movement asking to root out corruption is anti-democratic. His repeated mantra is, they are unelected and only the parliament is supreme. So don’t dare to talk!

    But he and his coterie at IE conveniently, and opportunistically, chose not to publish anything about the Radia-tapes. For him and his corporate paper, it does not matter if Radia, et al are unelected. It does not matter if they are lobbying in most intransparent and fraudulent manners to influence policy decisions worth crores of rupees. it does not matter if Journalists, who are supposed form the fourth estate of democracy, try to break its very foundations.

    Because, for him and his ilk, those practices are part of “democracy”. And we should never intrude privacy by tapping phones because they have a fundamental right to be fraudulent!

    He has reserved his fully loaded guns against Anna. Don’t worry, he can take it all!

  19. Kumarpushp Says:

    Dalits require seperate country not resevation ,160 million Pakistani got nuclear bomb to bamboo hindu led government inIndia but 160 milion dalits donot have Petrol bomb to defend themself from barbaric hindus.

  20. dodo Says:

    Just I cannot believe it! Shekhar Gupta is lying without doubt, just like any Congress apologists.

  21. Mohd Kutty Says:

    T Azeez Luthfullah is a troll. Please don’t feed him
    His only aim is to Islam Bashing. May allah forgive him. Islam is a peaceful religion and will remain so. No one has contributed towards kannada culture than the erstwhile rulers of Karnataka, viz, HH Hyderali and HH tipu Sultan

    Peace

  22. GG Says:

    When I was in IIT, I had many dalit friends. I don’t keep in touch with them as such, but I don’t keep in touch with my non-dalit friends either.

  23. Deepak Says:

    Shekar Gupta is of course the lead panelist on NDTV, and naturally he is obliged to echo Madam’s views. Hmm, so, he wants to know about Dailt friends? How are we supposed to know who is a dalit and who is not? Does he think Dalits look different from others? Or does he want Dalits to wear a collar tag so that people can identify them and make friends?

    How many Dailts does he employ in his rag? Will he allow his children to marry Dalits? Why doesn’t he adopt a Dalit child?

    Mr.Shekar Gupta, like all pseudo-intellectuals loves to talk big stuff and thinks people will go ga-ga over his speech. But unfortunately, people are smart and realise that, he like all other ‘intellectuals’ is just shamming..

  24. harkol Says:

    Shekar Gupta’s argument is idiotic!

    What he demonstrated in fact proves the counterpoint. After 60 years of reservation, there was not one Dalit in a gathering of 500 elites? What use is the reservation?

    We need other solutions than a bludgeon called reservation, which is not only anti-competitive, it isn’t plain working.

    @Kumarpushp:

    Hindu led govt. Did you say?

    Last I checked we had a Sikh PM, and a Christian (Agnostic?) Congress Chief ruling over him!

  25. sumakani Says:

    Shekhar Gupta should have asked the question in GOvt.Class I officer’s meet at-least more than 50% of them would have come from feeder cadre are from reservation. But if he asks the question in a gathering where you have reached a level only through your achievements there no hands my go up as they are from Dalits because there no recruitment will be made on basis of cast or any person from Dalit cadre, will definitely achieved it out of sheer efforts and doesn’t want to get recognized as Dalit. And why this dalit card now? it is really funny in this country when anybody posted as CJ he will not say that he has been elevated to the post because he is dalit but when charges leveled suddenly he remembers that because he is dalit he is being targeted. Even when any cricketer made as a captain of the team he will never say that he is minority that’s why he has been made as captain but he is caught pants down suddenly he remembers everyone is targeting him because he is a minority. Funny fellows let them mature.

  26. Gaby Says:

    While the comment of Mr Luthfullah gets responses, why doesnt Objectivist Mantra’s – because he has a point!

    I agree that this Civil Society nonsense is simply an effort to grab power and authority outside the electoral political system/ bureaucratical nexus.

  27. Objectivist Mantra Says:

    It is frustrating to see that Indians are falling into the nadir of same depravity in which the foolish Russians fell during the 1910s.

    Those were the days when there was widespread disaffection from Tsar in Russia because the king was rightly perceived to be corrupt and evil.

    So the Russians wholeheartedly supported the Bolshevik gang led by the two mass-murderers Lenin and Stalin. With what results. History is a proof of the evil that these two men wrought on Russia and other parts of the world.

    The new regime under Lenin and Stalin proved to me much more evil than the rule of tsars, millions of Russians were marched off to the concentration camps and were worked to death. Millions were tortured and killed. The country and the culture was destroyed forever.

    I would plead my fellow Indians not to make the same mistake that the Russians made in 1917.

    Lets not devalue our democracy. Yes some politicians have been found to be corrupt, but that does not mean we should give power to the un-elected Bolsheviks or the Civil Society.

    The legislative power is the sole prerogative of the elected leaders. We can’t allow any un-elected group to use coercive methods of FUD (fast unto death) to implement its own agenda.

    We have to oppose the existence of NAC and Civil Society because both of them are un-democratic and they have a hidden agenda of making it impossible for vast majority of Indians to achieve freedom and prosperity in their life.

    Please try to stop yourself from being the murderers of Indian democracy.

  28. Particles Says:

    If anyone raised their hand, I would have asked “Why do you care to ask what caste your friend is or what caste to whom are shaking hand ?”

  29. Anonymous Guy Says:

    Objectivist,

    The civil society movement, immaterial the merits of its demands, has not been undemocratic. There is nothing undemocratic about the right to protest and force the elected government to see things the right way. The civil society leaders are neither asking for political power nor are they amassing an army of street fighters (if you separate the dongi baba ramdev who might well be after political power).

    There is no parallel between Russia in 1910 and civil society. The elected government is no czar and has to fight elections every 5 years. Anna Hazare and co. are not driven by any ideology which seeks to overturn democracy.

    The elected government cannot be assumed to be an absolute power with no checks and balances, one of which is the right to peaceful protest. The constitution ensures that.

    So what murder of Indian democracy? In what way will fighting against corruption by getting laws passed in favor of it take away your rights? What is your fear?

    Coming to Shekar Gupta, I dont see why he is mixing the demands of Anna and co. with reservations. In what way will allowing corruption to fester help people from lower castes? Please help me understand.

  30. Rajan Shete Says:

    Until ’47, India was ruled by England. All the time the British had a ‘Democracy’; so, in effect, India was under ‘Democratic rule’, albeit with ‘special laws and provisions’—-but then we too have special laws and provisions for different parts and people(s?), right from “J&K to ASSAM”!
    And Gandhiji, without being elected from anywhere, held so many different kinds of protests—-right from illegally manufacturing salt at Dandi, to ‘boycotting’ British goods, to actually asking those appointed by the ‘Democratically elected representatives’ of ‘THE EMPIRE’ to QUIT INDIA!
    Now, was that an ‘affront on democracy’?

    Incidentally, what India needs is meritocracy; not the kind of mediocrity gnawing at our vitals!
    It shouldn’t matter if right from the President (of India), to the local commissioners, all happen to be Muslims, or Buddhists, or Christians etc..——but they must be appointed because they know those jobs, and not to fulfill some stupid quotas etc..

  31. twistleton Says:

    a just question…

  32. Nastika Says:

    Mr T Azeez Luthfullah may be a troll but what he says is true,

    When two Indians meet in train or bus or aeroplane or whatever, they may discuss everything under the sun. But in between the conversation there will be always an attempt to know the caste. First they would try to guess it by knowing each other’s name. Then they would try to guess it by the place of birth.

    By asking that question, Mr Shekhar Gupta has proved himself to be an idiot. The question I would like to ask is,

    Do you have *any* friend,, whose caste you don’t know?

  33. shankar Says:

    how many dalit editors have graced the pages of indian express since its inception ? How many senior editorial staff of IE are dalits?
    Shekhar gupta would do better to turn the mirror inwards & think.

  34. Deepak Says:

    @Objectivist Mantra
    Amazing!! You are comparing civil society to Bolshevists!! Wow, what a comparison. Is Anna Hazare Lenin or Stalin? And who is Beria, Kiran Bedi or Kejriwal?
    Really, these people are hardcore democrats and it is an insult to compare them to the Commie bandits of Russia.

  35. Abhi Says:

    Shekar Gupta the writer comes across like a genius if you compare it to his interviewing skills.
    Some random observations on random logic in the article.
    1. Since reservation is needed, planning is bad. When there is democracy why do you need plan.
    2. Hence India is better than Singapore. (Note: there is no how before hence.)
    3. (Any kind of ) Activism is bad unless all 1 billion people get together at one single place. Otherwise it is elite.
    4. Aravind Kerjriwala is elite.

    Not that comments are less entertaining:
    1. Reservation is bad.
    2. Shekar gupta is elite.
    3. Aids patients = Dalits and tribals
    4. If you have read a wikipedia artcle about Communist revolution, you can equate it to anything else.
    5. Anna Hazare is Stalin.
    6. Reservation is veeeery byaaad. Probably need to write it a couple of times more. Can not stress enough.
    7. Not to miss the gem – Islam is the answer.
    8. Reservation is evil.

  36. Objectivist Mantra Says:

    @anonymous guy and Deepak

    Please don’t put words in my mouth. I have not said that these honorable men and women are Bolsheviks. I am not comparing the present government with rule of tsars.

    I am saying that there is the potential. I am drawing a very broad and most extreme historical and political outlook.

    Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Lenin, Stalin and Beria were once upon a time motivated by the noble intention of ridding the country of corruption, but they became monsters in the end.

    That is why we need a firm democratic system to ensure that no one out side the electoral system is able to gain legislative or political power.

    It is possible for perfectly normal men to become poisoned by political power and become monsters. That is why we have to beware of all revolutionaries. WE must think a million times before we start supporting anyone.

    Lets never forget that “The road to hell is paved with good intentions.” our fight against corruption might as well lead us to a hell that is far worse as compared to the world we live in today.

    The politics in the country cannot be cleaned only by creating an extra government department. It is a much more difficult challenge. The crusaders are not ready to accept the facts and they are deluding the public with false promises. They are doing this because they have an agenda.

  37. twistleton Says:

    How this debate veered off into “Civil society” area i’ll never know.

    But i’ll offer my useless opinion anyway. The current set of ‘civil society’ or the proponents of the Jan Lokpal Bill (Both mean the same these days apparently) are stalwart personalities and upright citizens who decided Enough is Enough. Fine.

    They are fighting to end the murkiness currently obfuscating governance beyond belief. Fine.

    Great cause. A very great cause. In fact a cause so great that it is beyond the moral capacities of the human species. :D

    Can you tackle corruption as it occurs? Can it be isolated and labeled as an event by itself? Only to some extent.

    It will take hard and painstaking work and research to come up with changes in administrative policies that will reduce the scope for corruption in administration. And courage to implement them. What we need is to take our well-endowed Constitution seriously for a change.The NAC is trying though without much success.

    Civil Society (read Team Anna) is only baying for blood. That’s not going get us anywhere except a voyeuristic satisfaction in seeing the guilty punished (if they get caught).

    Why they can’t put their extra-contitutional existence to better use, we’ll never know. :)

  38. Abhi Says:

    Objectivist Mantra has heavily biased and paranoid economic right wing ideas. And hence he may be religious right wing too. Who else is right wing? Facists! So he may become mussolini in the future. or Osama perhaps.

    Before anyone puts anything in my mouth I want make clear that I am not saying he is mussolini, I am saying that there is the potential. I am drawing a very broad and most extreme historical and political outlook.

  39. Deepak Says:

    @Objectivist Mantra
    I agree that power corrupts. But the point is none of those from civil society are hankering for power, whereas the likes of Lenin were very clear that they wanted power. Of course, Baba wants to be PM, but he is not a serious player and has become a joker.

    How about the fact that today we have an impotent puppet PM and the real power lies with a person outside the Government. Isn’t this undemocratic?

    When everything is rotten and we are drowned in s***, don’t you think that any change which smells well is welcome?

    I don’t think that anyone from the civil society have any kind of agenda, other than Ramdev, who of course is a lughing stock.

    Your views on this sir?

  40. voyeur Says:

    Very good question Nastika – I find myself caught on the wrong foot. Any friend I have who is more than a passing acquaintance, I know his or her caste. Sometimes (and that too only when they are not from Karnataka) I don’t know the exact caste but I’ll know whether they fall under General/OBC/SC/ST or whatever. I know that this doesn’t tally well with my previous comment of how I don’t befriend anyone consciously but this is how it is. I guess it comes partly from having a background in sociology. I could claim a hundred mmitigating factors but nothing retracts from the truth of what you said…

  41. Objectivist Mantra Says:

    Dear Deepak, you need to understand that every revolutionary is a potential dictator. Every man who willingly sits on fast unto death today has the potential to make millions of other people fast unto death against their will at some future date.

    So many leaders have fasted unto death in this glorious land of ours during the last 80 years, and that is probably why this is the country of unwashed starving millions. We need politicians and leaders who eat and dress properly and come up with coherent philosophical, logical and political arguments win support.

    Instead, what we are having is mob. A mob of self-righteous, who don’t know how to argue coherently. They just want us to take them at face value. I feel fed up of these guys.

    History always repeats itself. And we the people keep worshiping false Gods all the time. The change we wish for cannot come through revolution. It can only come through reform – economic, political and legal reform.

    Why is the Civil Society not talking about reform? Perhaps they wish to keep the corrupt system intact so that they can inherit the empire at some future date.

    As long as these honorable men and women do not make their overall agenda crystal clear, they WILL never have the support of thinking people like me. I am not prepared to allow myself to be brainwashed by the Mainstream media.

  42. Vitlan Potli Says:

    Abhi – your post hoc ergo propter hoc inference is quite funny.

    Objectivist M- Who according to you had a better imagination Jayson Blair or Stephan Glass?

  43. Alkah. Niran Says:

    Seems secular churmuri is being watched over by Jihadi forces….

  44. sanjeeva Says:

    Nastika! Trying to know one’s caste is not something to be abhored. People incline to show affinity towards another persons(s) in the name of caste, language, state, place of residing, place of birth, economic background, place of working etc. for a a variety of reasons ranging from sharing good things, exchanging views, just for time pass, brokering marriage alliance, having a feeling of security, hoping to get any help, etc. It may not be necessarily for the single purpose of creating hatred towards others or demeaning or looking down the people of other segments. Ultimately, people make friends with those with whom they feel right chemistry and at that time, they don’t think about the caste or creed.

  45. Deepak Says:

    @Objectivist Mantra
    Couple of points:

    1) Isn’t Lokpal itself a reform – bringing PM under ambit of Lokpal, I believe that’s a big sized reform, considering how corruption comes from the top?
    2) Yes, revolutionaries in the past have become tyrants and crooks. But do you really think that the likes of Hazare, Kejriwal, Bedi and Bhushans are of that type?
    3) You mention reform, who will do that? Politicians? Never, they are least bothered about reforms, they only want to loot. If politicians don’t want to reform, isn’t it the role of ‘civil society’ to force them to reform.

    Anyway, lets ‘civilly’ agree to disagree :)

  46. Nastika Says:

    @sanjeeva,
    Of the things you have mentioned, ie caste, language, state, place of residing, place of birth, economic background, place of working, etc, *only* caste has the distinction of being ‘high’ & ‘low’.

    While the ‘high’ caste would openly go about telling his, the ‘low’ caste may not want to share, fearing prejudice. Caste discrimination is just 1 level below racism.

    The world would be a better place when people don’t want to know other person’s caste.

  47. twistleton Says:

    I’ll have to agree with OM on this one.

    At the end of day what Team Anna is proposing is a very cosmetic change to tackle corruption. Since when has deterrence worked on a satisfactory scale?

    Putting the PM under the purview of the LokPal is of no real use to us. Putting the PM under the Lokpal is only a way of scoring personal brownie points over political rivals besides promising a sense of vindication and power for LokPal committee hopefuls.

    Our democracy is not mature enough for it to make sense now. When the political playing field becomes more level, then maybe it would make certain safeguards necessary.

    Clean governance and democracy go hand in hand. Unless our electoral and by extension our political process and government institutions become more democratic, clean governance is a near-impossibility.

    Which means Civil society watchdogs are barking up the wrong tree.

    Anna Hazare may not be hankering after power per se, but he’s not above hankering after personal glory. A manufactured greatness, so to say, something that is the norm among India’s political leadership. Greatness achieved through good PR.

    Yet there is a faint hope that we cling to – that the top-down approach will work for once.

  48. N S Sharada Prasad Says:

    Why bring caste in friendship? Nobody bothers about these things.

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