Sauce for liberals isn’t sauce for fundamentalists?

The ghastly ritual of Madae Snana at the State-run Kukke Subramanya templewhich entails members of the Malekudiya community (among others) rolling over plantain leaves of leftover food of Brahmins for wish-fulfillment—has pitted progressives versus traditionalists, thanks to the “ban” lifted by the BJP-ruled Karnataka government.

“Liberals are carrying out a smear campaign against an established centre of faith of Hindus. This ritual is not something that has come into practice in recent times. It has been around for generations and people do practice it even today. By denigrating the ritual and its practice, the liberals are hurting the religious sentiments of devotees,” a local leader has been quoted as saying.

But what is the likelihood that the equally ghastly sight of devotees happily walking over fire and flogging themselves in public (as they did on Moharram in Hubli and Bangalore on Tuesday), will tie up liberals and fundamentalists in similar knots, or exercise human rights bodies?

Or will this too pass, as it has been around for generations and devotees do it voluntarily (presumably)?

Photographs: Karnataka Photo News

Also read: Unlikely this is for Sachin Tendulkar‘s 100th century

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30 Responses to “Sauce for liberals isn’t sauce for fundamentalists?”

  1. Not A Witty Nick Says:

    “rolling over plantain leaves of leftover food of Brahmins”

    Serving food only for BrahmaNas has been discontinued from a very long period, any male who doesn’t mind going bare chested and modestly covered females are served food there!

  2. Mahan Says:

    Liberal version of moral policing!!

  3. Narasimha Says:

    I am impressed with Churumuri for mentioning about Moslems beating their chest. My opinion of Churumuri is – Leftists who hate one religion, human rights activist who cry about Kishenji but keep quiet about cops killed by Naxals, feminists who scream about women’s rights but do not talk about the Bangaldeshi Moslem activist who has been kicked out of everywhere but is staying in India. Now I am happy with Churumuri somewhat.

    I do not think many moslems reda Churumuri.

    Also Govt that too a BJP one is making a move to ban Made snaana but will it try to ban “chest beating” by saabaru? Try that.

    Made sana is also carried out by Brahmanas so it is a clever trick to keep saying “…left over by Brahmins”.

    This is not a good ritual. The only benefit I see is that it will focus the mind and kill one’s ego. There are better ways of focussing the mind and killing ego than rolling on plantain leaves.

  4. Shree Kar Says:

    State-run temple?

    Will someone please enlighten me why the State is running the temples? Is it also running churches, mosqus, gurudwaras? If not why only Hindu temples are targetted?

    Is it because of the funds at the disposal of the temples?

  5. Harish Says:

  6. Saif Says:

    Are you not content with the tens and hundreds of justifications you have to discriminate people based on birth? For heaven’s sake please don’t drag Muslims into this; at least not to justify these abhorrent practices!!!

  7. A Journalist Says:

    Pejawara Swamy, V S Acharya, Dharmasthala Hegde, Yeddyurappa, DVS Gowda etc should roll over the plantain leaves of leftover food of Dalits and poorest of the poor in Karnataka.

  8. Satya Says:

    In secular India, freedom of religion is assured by Constitution. Why should any one interfere in my faith so long it does not interfere with the other person?

  9. pdk Says:

    Two weaknesses in this post:

    1. Liberals are opposing this.

    How do we know this? Just because some local leaders says it? I’m some version of liberal, but I say, ignore it. It too will pass as soon as the Malekudiya community realises that it doesn’t work. Or it will not. So what? As long as no one is being coerced into doing it, it is OK.

    2. It is being banned because it is a ghastly sight. No. And the ghastliness arises not from the sight at all. The uneasiness it causes is due to the fact that it puts one man above another (though it may/may not be true in the observance of the ritual in current times) and due to the fact that someone thought up this custom at all. The Muslim ritual doesn’t cause uneasiness since it is a voluntary act of suffering by the individuals.

    Running over fire? Pure comedy.

  10. JK Says:

    Rolling over leftover food will give them wish fulfillment? Anyone dumb enough to believe this deserves what they get. This is 2011. Get with the times.

  11. Nastika Says:

    Instead of wasting blood on floor, our Muslim brethren can head to the nearest blood donation center.

    A Shi’ite Muslim cleans blood off a man after the man flagellated himself during a Muharram procession ahead of Ashura in Amroha, in the northern Indian state of Uttar Pradesh, December 4, 2011

    Image: http://kaw.stb.s-msn.com/i/C2/72A6F1D93DCD463FC7E2BDEEBDF4B4.jpg

    .

  12. Kennedy Says:

    So many traditions so many practices so many people…
    Governments will spend years and years to ban and revoke bans…whoever wants to practice will do while the rest can rant.

    Ironically, members of dalit organisations from Dakshina Kannada thrashed protesting dalits from Mysore, Bangalore and Mandya

    Government should let go of the control over temples and provide good governance…

  13. pdk Says:

    Narasimha:

    MF Hussain died in Dubai I believe.

  14. emptymind Says:

    @narasimha
    u are calling ignorant action of people as means to kill the ego of the mind. what is the use of this action if they kills the ego of themselves and laud or praise the ego of the others people -who left the plantain leaves. they are just increasing the ego of the society and thus results in more caste/class division of people.

    Right action is the action that kills the ego of the him/her selves and the ego of the people surrounding him. This can be achieved through Wisdom and not by Ignorance.

    i am pretty sure the inventor or supporter of this custom doesn’t have true wisdom or just playing a malicious attempt to maintain the ignorance of the masses and thus always remain dictator of every action of them.

    @Satya
    Faith and Truth are not always same.
    Faith is something u ‘Believe’ . Truth is something u ‘Realise’.
    Action of ‘Believing’ doest ask any proof to validate it. whereas Action of ‘Realizing ‘ itself become proof and validates it.

    “Our Constitution is based on Truth not on Faith”.

    “We should not bend the Truth to fit the Faith but we should bend the Faith to fit the Truth”.

    This process of bending of the faith is done by questioning the action related to faith examining its purpose,intention behind it, empirically analyze and if it good to myself and to the the society i live up to it or else reject it.
    there is no need to accept it just because it is said by XYZ, passed on through generation or it holds the traditional value.

    And finally Faith are just Faith by itself. Churmuri dont confuse people by calling Muslim’s Faith , Hindu’s Faith etc

  15. amithpallavoormith Says:

    Despite all the tech boom, India still remains a banana republic!

  16. emptymind Says:

    @Harish
    And finally S L Byrappa arrive at conclusion – Science and Religion does not coincide with other. This is the most irresponsible and foolish statement by kind of person who just received saraswathi samman award.
    This is sharp contrast to the famous quote of Albert Einstein
    “Science without Religion is lame, Religion without Science is blind”.

    Science ,Religion, Philosophy may appear different for ordinary sentient being. when we look them with wisdom, they are not separate but have interconnected, and still closer look we can realize the unification of all three.

  17. Narasimha Says:

    Emptymind,

    You took pain to answer how to subdue the ego of the “other people”. Hinduism allows people to have faith and is more democratic and does not insist every one has to be a Jnani otherwise you can not reach God. Some one wants to work but can not come to have faith or does not want to engage in ‘jignyasa’ then he can do that also like a KarmaYogi.

    You are forcing every one to become rational and if some one can not become that you have no answer. Faith was retained in Hinduism to cater to a majority of people.

    What about the chest beating of the barbarians stuck in 7th century.

    Are you planning to help the women of these people to buy bananas and cucumbers? Because “Muzzie Cleric Bans Women From Touching Bananas and Cucumbers” ?

    http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/262867/20111207/islamic-cleric-bans-women-touching-bananas-cucumbers.htm

  18. Narashardula Says:

    Narasima & Emptymind,

    People like Emptymind lost power in Karnataka 100%. Neither CPI nor CPM have a single seat as an MLA or MP. This was preceded by Bandaya and Dalit literature also losing all steam and being held alive by a few ಬುದ್ಧಿಜೀವಿಗಳು who are telling everyone what is good literature and what is bad. Now they are isolated to the media. I think they will lose that too eventually.

    Empty rhetoric in the air and vituperative attacks, spicy character assasination “ಯಜ್ಞ and ವ್ರತ’, selective targeting of one religion while lacking the “balls” to even point fingers at other religions will strip these leftist media brigade of all the inner moral strength needed to continue their last war.

    Let Emptymind answer my questions on Islamic throwbacks.

    Narasimha, do not complain: If you give bananas to women (instead of flowers), your luck with women would increase greatly. Good to know.

  19. Mathihalli Madan Mohan Says:

    Boring Journalist
    Will somebody enlighten me as to whether the made snana is a ritual forced on somebody? if it is so, it can be banned.
    But if it is a voluntary exercise, which is followed because of the beliefs and tradition, how can that be held as reprehensible and the governemnt is hauled over the coals for doing nothing in this regard?

    So many rituals have crept into our life, which even today have no explanation but are persisted with it. Is it possible to remove all of them. And what it is the locus standi of those who wants to cleanse the society of such “aberrations”.

    Dragging the name of Pejawar swami for every thing of what is happensaround us. He has been often been misquoted. Those who want to pillory the swami, can search their hearts (if they have one) as to whether they have done one good thing in the life for the society without expecting any return?

    Alll this ballyhoo appears to be mere stunt to gain cheap publicit. Controversies are created by deliberately misquoting somebody and misinterepreting something.

  20. emptymind Says:

    @ Narasimha & Narashardula
    I can only smile at ignorance of my Muslim brother’s faith.

    I have not targeted the faith of any particular religion rather i am questioning faith in general.
    i have no problem in having your faith in the journey to reach God.
    By the way what do mean by word “God”?. is that a stage where all suffering and pain of life will ceases to exist?.
    How do you conclude ‘suffering ends by mere having faith on something'” ?
    why the earth has witnessed War, Terrorism, Corruption, Casteism, Nepotism by our these Faith-holder? u can include even marxism here.
    to get the answer from these queries we need to to think beyond faith and belief.
    Duty of religion is to offer a kit to seek the truth of our Faith whether it is in harmony with our natural laws, trustworthy, blameless conductive to happiness.and not to get blocked in customs and tradition.
    what is the problem in being “Rational” it is just a process of getting
    negative feed back at the input of the system so that system can correct its error and gets stabilize itself .System will collapse or loose control, if there is no negative feedback. same is true for our religious system
    These laws also applied to hydraulic, electrical and even in servomechanism which is found in your car. try to drive your car with only faith shutting off all the controls u will realize the truthness of your faith!
    i am not forcing every one to to be rational. i am just cautioning the masses in seeking their faith.

  21. emptymind Says:

    @ Narasimha & Narashardula
    I can only smile at ignorance of my Muslim brother’s faith.

    I have not targeted the faith of any particular religion rather i am questioning faith in general.
    i have no problem in having your faith in the journey to reach God.
    By the way what do mean by word “God”?. Is that a stage where all suffering and pain of life will ceases to exist?.
    How do you conclude ‘suffering ends by mere having faith on something’” ?
    Why the earth has witnessed War, Terrorism, Corruption, Casteism, Nepotism by our these Faith-holder? u can include even ‘leftist’ here.
    To get the answer from these queries we need to to think beyond faith and belief.
    Duty of religion is to offer a kit to seek the truth of our Faith whether it is in harmony with our natural laws, trustworthy, blameless conductive to happiness.and not to get blocked in customs and tradition.
    what is the problem in being “Rational” it is just a process of getting
    negative feed back at the input of the system so that system can correct its error and gets stabilize itself .System will collapse or loose control, if there is no negative feedback. same is true for our religious system
    These laws also applied to hydraulic, electrical and even in servomechanism which is found in your car. try to drive your car with only faith shutting off all the controls u will realize the truthness of your faith!
    i am not forcing every one to to be rational. i am just cautioning the masses in seeking their faith. It up to them to accept or reject it.

  22. emptymind Says:

    @Narashardula
    “People like Emptymind lost power in Karnataka 100%. Neither CPI nor CPM have a single seat as an MLA or MP”.

    U mean people who gain power and become MLA or MP has brought heaven to its people and suffering ceases .can u even say Karnataka is still shining :)

  23. DR Says:

    Can someone explain to me why Brahmins are practicing “Brahmins Only” meals at public place? That alone is “shoshaNe” Mr. Pejawar Mutt Swamiji.

    People have every right to wallow like pigs. But no glutton like one at public expense. I think this FAIRNESS issue is what is erking some.

  24. Bejafry Says:

    Some North Indian TV channel raked up the Sabarimala issue of not allowing women to the temple and there was a lot of hue and cry. Rahul Easwar of Sabarimala board has said right on ‘Made Snana’. He has said that it’s time to change some practices but not by force.
    @ Saif: why Muslims should not be dragged in here. we are discussing some practices which are against common sense. Be it inflicting injuries on self during Moharam or multilation of female genitals among Bohra community (read outlook recent issue). Hasn’t spain banned Bull-fight? Age old doesn’t mean it has to be right. every community has such practices. but as far as it is not forced upon anyone but is followed to up endurance and bilief there shouldn’t be any problem.
    Dont know what offended Dalit organizations in Subramania issue. Has any Dalit been forced to perform this ritual?

  25. Ananth Says:

    In the present scenario if any meal is served ‘Brahmins only’ then it is the Brahmins who should be offended for being served separate, not any uninvited Dalit..

  26. dr ramesh Says:

    Constitution clearly says that everyone has the right to practice his or her religion. It would be unfair on the government to restrict voluntary acts of faith . If it acts on this issue,it will be opening pandora’s box,as hundreds of such rituals are found in all religions. Look at the mature way the supreme court and kearla govt handled ananthapadmanabha temple issue.they stopped short of directly interfering. If madesnana is forced on people,then govt has a case for interference.wisdom of religious leaders and self introspection by people can solve the problem.

  27. Anand Baradi Says:

    Practices carried out by some groups which are neither offending nor intruding into other groups should not be banned but should be educated to let it go voluntarily

    But practice of serving meals to Brahmins separately in kukke should be outright abolished as it is a public place and more importantly the temple is under Muzrai department Government of Karnataka.

    All these years we had to be aware of pseudo secularists now it is the time of pseudo liberals

    Faith can be different to different people

    Some are bound by books
    but for some its just a way of life

    Muharam reminded me of some thing

    I BELIEVED that in India dry day’s are mostly on Gandhi jayanti and Mahaveer jayanti but i REALIZED that Muharam is also a dry day this year , atleast in Kamalapura near Hampi

  28. Narashardula Says:

    Dear Emptymind,
    We may disagree but you are at least a decent man considering your tempered response to what I wrote. I give it you.

  29. captainjohann Says:

    Christians believing in Christmas father can also fall into this type of comprison. Is it not? Beilieving in left over eaten by Brahmins is not akin to Muslims beating their breasts during Ashura. Rituals and faith ?

  30. Indian Homemaker Says:

    //The uneasiness it causes is due to the fact that it puts one man above another (though it may/may not be true in the observance of the ritual in current times) and due to the fact that someone thought up this custom at all.//
    I agree.

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