CHURUMURI POLL: Aamir Khan vs Doctors?

The Bollywood actor Aamir Khan is the master of the publicity stunt. Just before 3 Idiots was released, he got into a tiff with the author Chetan Bhagat on whose book the movie was based. Even as Peepli Live! was making news, he got into a row with the movie’s masterminds: Anusha Rizvi and her husband Mahmood Farooqui.

So, the news about the Indian medical association (IMA) taking objection to Khan’s Satyamev Jayate episode last week, in which he turned the spotlight on medical misdemeanours, should be taken with a pinch of salt. Still, the question must be asked: has Aamir Khan exposed India’s worst-kept secret or only scratched its surface?

In the said episode, Aamir Khan showed the Sunday morning TV audience how doctors take a cut from pathological laboratories and specialists to refer patients, how patients are misled to make them undergo unnecessary and expensive treatment; and how doctors are paid by pharma companies to prescribe specific medicine brands. Victims spoke openly and bravely of how their illnesses were exaggerated for the personal gain of doctors, etc.

Now IMA wants an apology from Khan for having “defamed” the medical fraternity and for having given only one side of the story. There is talk of legal action although IMA’s honchos admit there are “black sheep” in the profession. So, is Aamir Khan right in exposing medical frauds, or is the IMA barking up the wrong tree?

And what is your worst story of medical malfeasance?

External reading: Shaming the Hippocratic oath

Also read: An open letter to Aamir Khan from a Kannadiga

CHURUMURI POLL: Medical insurance: a big ripoff?

Once upon a time, when my doctor was an angel

Do Mysore’s doctors, hospitals have any ethics?

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45 Responses to “CHURUMURI POLL: Aamir Khan vs Doctors?”

  1. the colonel Says:

    this post is an open invitation for all fart-bags.

    Surprisingly no objection by the ima in the case of fetuscide and no cancellation of med licences inspite of laws.

    On a personal level depending on our age we remember vert vert fondly our GP’s.

    our children do not know what a GP is.

    The med fraternity is guilty as hell and they know who these doctors are but as in our India ——NOTHING

    ***

    and the opposite: a link:-

    http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/indianhospital/2012/05/2012591415782546.html

  2. MysooruBoyz Says:

    This is an open secret. I know a guy who runs a diagnostic center who offers up to 30% to Doctors for referrals. Plus doctors in the so called “corporate” hospitals are subjected to reviews based on the amount of business they bring in.
    Its such a coincidence that this post has come up today. A couple of weeks ago, a friend suddenly called me and said that his sister in law was admitted to a leading hospital (named after a country famous for drugs and coffee) and they were recommending a liver transplant for Rs. 25 Laks and had to be done in 24 hours..obviously in panic the family started arranging the money till another doctor (a friend’s dad) questioned the need..he called them along with a friend from a TV channel and started asking medical questions and these guys started backtracking…
    What was wrong with the girl? ..too many painkillers… and these guys were going to replace her liver..
    Finally shifted to BGS..where she recovered and is back home !!!

  3. dr ramesh Says:

    There may few doctors indulging in unethical practice but most of them are doing a good job.
    Pathological examinations are a vital part of diagnosis of any disease done only for correct diagnosis and right line of treatment. Because the same doctor would be condemned for wrong treatment if he gets the diagnosis wrong.
    Rotten apples are found in all professions including medical and also dental practice, but to generalise and make sweeping comments in public media is wrong.
    EVEN TODAY CASTING COUCH IS RAMPANT IN BOLLYWOOD, TOP BOLLYWOOD HEROES ARE INDULGING IN IT ,with every wannabe heroine having to compromise to make a mark in Hindi film industry, can Mr.Khan shed some light on it?

  4. Vikram Hegde Says:

    Interesting how the question you frame at the end is – Is Aamir right or are the IMA wrong? Heads I win, tails you lose.

  5. kumar Says:

    until AAMIR khan disclosed that Diagnostic Labs pay Doctors Commission , the whole of india was not even aware of it. : (

    he exposed it to all the illiterates of India.

    what a genius he is : )

  6. harkol Says:

    Personal experience: Was adviced to go for a Titanium plate by an orthopedic doctor of a famous hospital in Bangalore going by the name of ‘ocean’ + Greek god of music. Estimated cost of procedure was 55K.

    I was advised to take a second opinion by another doc, who is also a family friend. A very famous (and old) doctor from Malleshwaram told me I don’t need to do anything but stick to bandages.

    4weeks later, I was cured, my overall cost – less than 3K. If I had taken first doc’s suggestion, I’d have spent 50K+ more, and also have carried a foreign metal object in my body!!

    So much for integrity & ethics of doctors. Be extremely careful about which doctor you go, and never go for any procedure without taking second/third opinion.

  7. Gouri Satya Says:

    Aamir Khan has done the right job by exposing the corrupt in the medical profession. Though not all doctors are corrupt, in the sense of getting a cut for the medicines they suggest to buy from particular medical stores, most of them indulge in this practice. So also a number of nursing homes involve in exploiting patients by conducting unnecessary checkups and medical procedures. They prescribe abnormally high-cost medicines, while less priced are available in the market. It is good that Government of India has now decided to sell low-cost generic medicines by opening shops acorss the country.

  8. Gagan Krishnadas Says:

    There’s no point in filing a defamation suit. The show does’t lead to defamation at all. The definition of defamation doesn’t cover anything such as the “other side of story”. Anyway, Aamir showed the brighter side of one IAS officer and Doctor who is involved in supporting the manufacture of generic drugs and showed the good works of Dr. Shetty. He has covered both the sides.

    The first exception to Section 499 of IPC (defamation) says:
    First Exception.—Imputation of truth which public good requires to be made or published.—It is not defamation to impute anything which is true concerning any person, if it be for the public good that the imputation should be made or published. Whether or not it is for the public good is a question of fact.

    Here’s the matter related to the public good, to create awareness about the malpractices happening in the medical industry. And, whatever has been shown is truth and backed by some evidence on record. Its no secret that doctors get huge payment for referrals to labs and from drug companies. Some doctors write the name of the drugs in such worst hand writing that only a particular medical shopkeeper can understand the name of the drug. Its all happening.

    Instea of threatening AAmir, let Indian Medical association cancel the licenses of those erring doctors (not even one medical practitioner has been fined or punished by IMA so far !!!) …. And it would be interesting to know how and by what means IMA certifies Dettol as 100% safe. And how Indian Dental Association terms Colgate as the best toothpaste. What is the kickback money the vested interests on these boards get. Much before CWG scam happened, i was quite apprehensive how come Kalmadi was heading the Indian Olympics Association for so long without any opposition. It would be interesting to know the members of IMA and IDA and how they are elected and how they are enjoying power since a long time.

  9. Prateek Says:

    What is this? Aamir Khan did not get into tiff with Chetan Bhagat ”before” release of 3 Idiots. Chetan Bhagat lashed out against VVC. Aamir got in this controversy later, when he commented in support of his producer. And when Peepli Live controversy happened, by that time the film was released, it collected what it had to and was ending its run.
    And why say Aamir is doing a publicity stunt? You mean to say he and doctors jointly planned a publicity stunt? Rather it is doctors who are shouting for no reason. Only some malpractices were highlighted in SJ. And he showed example of good doctors doing their job honestly too. But it is doctors who are thinking the show was against whole medical fraternity! Doctors started protesting and Aamir Khan is accused of doing a publicity stunt!
    Rather it is doctors who are trying to divert attention from issues addressed in the show!

  10. Dr Kiran Acharya Says:

    I would have appreciated it, if Aaamir had thrown some light on the economics of Medical Education in India, which readily would have provided the answers to the queries raised in the dramatized program.
    Has any economist, administrator ever given a thought about the return on investment for MBBS/ MS course? No doctor with PG degree would be able to pay the EMI of education loan, with his salary alone!!! (Those who get into the much subsidized Govt seats, are mostly for “export”!)

  11. Emptymind Says:

    These are SMS jokes, just i have received
    Doctor: nurse , nam clinic advertisement ge ondu punching line helkond banni..
    Nurse: 1. “Karkand banni, Hotkond Hogi…
    2. Hana namage, Hena nimage…
    3. Ambulance nammadu, body nimmadu.

  12. AlanJ Says:

    In the USA, respected professions with one being the most respected are:

    1. Academia
    2. Engineering
    9. Medicine
    10. Law

  13. harkol Says:

    Dr. Ramesh: Amir Khan’s program was about rotten doctors. If you aren’t one you have no reason to be offended. He did bring in Dr. Devi Shetty to show doctors in good light too. He showed how with some application of mind and action, doctor can indeed be a god.

    And what is this about asking Amir Khan to do this or that?? He’ll do or say what he is comfortable doing or saying. A few stars/directors sleeping with a few wannabees doesn’t make it a nationwide problem. And just because Amir’s team picks certain topics, they condone other not so nice things happening in our midst.

  14. M Says:

    Both of my parents are doctors; my grandfather was also a doctor. While I was growing, my parents wished that I too would become a doctor. My father was thrilled at the possibility of ‘lineage of doctors’. But by the time I reached PUC, they had decided against it!

    My father is a Professor in diagnostic radiology. He retired as the Principal/Director of a Govt Medical College.

    Towards the end of his career he bought a small X-ray machine and set up a diagnostic center; hoping that this would be his pass-time post-retirement. It failed at the first location, then he moved it around several places and ultimately, the machine in now sitting quietly in a corner in our drawing room. My father just refused to give ‘cut’. He thought people would come to him becasue he was a great doctor with nearly 30 yrs of experience of studying at least 100-Xrays 5 days a week and 50 Ultra Sound Scans a week. Of course my father had no business skills. But cut was the major blow for any progress.

    All these arises because health is both a practical and an emotional problem. And also because there is no malpractice laws in India.

  15. Anonymous Guy Says:

    dr. ramesh,

    Casting couch is practiced between consenting adults. Foeticide is illegal and equivalent to murder. Aamir Khan has shed light on the correct thing. IMA (and folks like you) on the other hand, are diverting the real issue instead of coming face to face with it.

    In the program Aamir showed with proof what doctors are up to.

    On the other hand you made a statement: “There may few doctors indulging in unethical practice but most of them are doing a good job.”
    Why should we take what you say on face value? I would say – a few doctors are doing a good job and most of them are indulging in unethical practices.

    The IMA by its bullying and diversions is just showing the public how the medical profession operates in India with the profit first mentality.

    You have several rants to say about IT folks, but what about doctors who indulge in rampant malpractices and incompetency? And dentists who try to extract money from patients in the name of extracting teeth? Want to sweep that under the rug?

  16. Jay Says:

    We own a medical drug store in our family and it is a open secret on how much commission / perks / bribes doctors get for prescribing certain medicines. Other can monetary commission (usually around 30% on expensive drugs) they regularly get gifts like home appliances (TV, fridge, AC etc), Vacations abroad and many more things from the drug companies. Other than the above said gifts,if we fail to give him his share of the profits made by his prescription, we tend to lose his patients as he sends them elsewhere.

    I am sure Daaktar Ramesh doesnt know about this as he is either a dentist or a vet who would just be lucky to find one patient a day!!

    And comparing casting couch with doctors who play with lives. God save us from people like you!!

  17. Nastika Says:

    @Dr Kiran Acharya,
    You mean a doctor want ROI (return on investment) like a police sub-inspector wants ROI on the amount he spent on transfer?

    So a doctor enrolls into MBBS course with the intention of indulging in malpractice someday later in his life …

    ~*~

  18. dr ramesh Says:

    Corporates entered healthcare in India big-time, corruption in healthcare increased.
    Insurance companies, (in which big corporates are either majority stake holders or as promoters) have tie up with big companies which offer their employees yearly health allowances if treated in specified corporate hospitals—— this nexus has acquired malignant proportion.
    Even today in urban and rural India, most people trust the DOWN THE LANE FAMILY DOCTOR advise before taking major health decisions . MCI is thinking seriously to encourage this practice .
    JAYADEVA INSTITUTE OF CARDIOLOGY is a prime example of what state govt can do in providing good health services to the people at affordable cost. This is a success story entire country should emulate.
    Today GE healthcare, SIEMENS healthcare and other companies are coming up with state of art diagnostic machinery which costs a bomb, when cost inputs go up uncontrolled, some corporate hospitals and doctors indulge in unfair practices
    SHARE MARKET LISTED HOSPITALS, FORTIS, APOLLO etc calculate profit on return per bed, no of beds, this is the reality.
    Mr.Amir Khan is no great human being giving sermons to doctors about their profession,
    ANYTHING FOR BOX OFFICE AND TRP ratings.

  19. harkol Says:

    Dr Acharya:

    You are right that Medical education in India is a disgrace. Apparently, India has only capacity for 16,000 doctors to graduate every year. 16,000 in a country of 1.3billion!!!

    This has made Medical education not only very sought after, but also very expensive. it is a racket.

    Just like our bureaucracy which are packed with a lot of folks who had to pay huge amounts of bribe to get in, guys graducating as doctors after having paid such large amounts will try to earn it hook or crook.

    But, that doesn’t mean we should accept such a fate. We need to oppose govt. policy of not opening sufficient medical schools, and throttling competetion. We should oppose IMA not barring doctors with unethical moorings.

  20. navollasa Says:

    doctors are good – the system is bad.

    1st type

    let’s say a employee of infosys gets medical allowance as well as hospitalization . its only valid for his spouse and children , while the same doesnt apply for his parents – who actually are the ones who need hospitals – the same engineer will get groin massages if man or manicure pedicure and botox if woman and bill it to company but if their parents fall ill instead of spending they come and crib on churumuri and get cheap hospitals ( which they never go for themselves ) for parents.

    2nd type

    globalization shares wealth as well as diseases without mercy. specially farmers whose water table is sucked and virus and bacteria given have no idea what to do?

    now come to doctors –
    a mbbs doctor first studies studies and studies really hard for 5-6 years and 1 year for re exam ( atleast one subject most of them will fail and coverup ) and 2-3 specialization. for 10 years all the hefty fees ( even for govt seat nowadays ) and minimal stipend ( less than 10k) they study with ‘appana aasthi’

    now when they are out they are hungry lions. they are half doc and half dacoits with loans and money crunches and pale health ( cannot compete with a good earning engineer )

    and see the hospitals nowadays – they are the middleman ( a punjabi or a mumbai marwadi ) completely unaware of any with business mind.

    90% of the problems of the country are because of business minded MBAs .

    in the name of growth they won’t hesiate fixing price for their mothers , anyways America is there for their defence.

    Can you people cite one example where a businessman was hanged? recent decade saw scams involving loss of lives and degradation of natural resources – complete phaseout of communities but still everyone was barred out

    Doctors as I see are the most reverred in India – they are intelligent . they should never make business rule them instead take business into their own hands and rule

    MBAs have ruined India

    1. software ( given microsoft defacto OS)
    2. APMC – old styled seregara / middleman is still the ruler
    3. Education system – teachers get less than trustees.
    4. Doctors – needless to say during this incident
    5. Image of Politicians – they swap and overlap roles.

    So much for accepting capitalism

    when we ask for

    1. free and fair education for all in mother tongue like in germany – that’s chauvinism. we cannot translate. we have to look after migrants you know.
    2. govt handled hospitals medication like in UK / free medication like in canada – that’s against businessman how will reliance healthcare grow? you know goverment has other important jobs to look at.
    3. free and fair renewable power and electricity – what will we do with all pipelines and gas imported and american technology build dams with millions of dollars? dangerous nuclear parks built with millions of dollars ! how will ambani build antilia and maintain his marwadi EGO?
    4. free safe water and air – how can we ensure it but whatever you have give it to other state.
    Done.

    this is just a tip of iceberg. Can Aamir Khan expose Ambani? – what a load of crap i am talking – reliance itself is partner for satyameva jayate . reliance which released devgan’s singham in karnataka have more things against us than anyone.

    so much of internal strife and suffering – that’s the gift of capitalist baddimaklu.

    ***

    @harkol
    “A few stars/directors sleeping with a few wannabees doesn’t make it a nationwide problem”
    i have been watching you supporting “sleeping with bitches” .
    even @vinay also has pre marital sex as if same things has happened with his wife and they both have it even after marriage.

    man then why was Bill Clinton of the most liberalized America removed for some stains!

  21. the colonel Says:

    WHAAAAT logic by the docs.

  22. BangaloreBaba Says:

    Dr Ramesappa saar, your comparisons amaze me! Is casting couch in bollywood as serious an issue as medical malpractices?

    Where are your priorities? How does “casting couch” concern you, really? Should the nation start worrying about such idiotic stuff now, instead of real tangible issues?

  23. BangaloreBaba Says:

    navollasa a.k.a. Kaadu manushya, you are a misfit in this era. While you make a few sensible points, in general you are fit only for life in the kaadu.

    The fault is not with “capitalist baddimakkalu” as you put it – it is with “pseudo socialist baddimakkalu” like you, who have been sucking the country’s blood for decades.

    What happened, are you outraged that so many people who never had the chance to come up in life, managed to do that now? Are you feeling inadequate at the loss of your position in the former society of India, feeling frustrated that too many people are getting wealthy and able to fulfill their desires nowadays?

    Do yourself a favour – before making comments, think carefully if you are making any sense, or whether you are just displaying moronism. For example, before yammering about renewable energy resources, you should probably think whether the existing technology is sufficient to replace conventional sources like nuclear and coal, given the demand for power.

    If you give your brain some exercise, you will probably realize what nonsense you spew.

    And oh, what was that you said? “Reliance released Singham in Karnataka, so reliance has more things against us than anyone”! What the hell? LOL – you are a bitter cantankerous old man. You need to retire to an ashram and stop bothering your brain with things that it can’t handle.

  24. Dr Kiran Acharya Says:

    @ Nastika: I am not justifying malpractice. I am just asking the issue to be addressed. ROI is a crude term, however to drive home the point had to use it!

  25. harkol Says:

    Navollasa: Just confining myself to issues you addressed to me.

    More dangerous than a ignorant person, is the person who is misinformed, possessing half knowledgeable but thinks he knows what he is saying.

    Bill Clinton wasn’t ‘removed’ !! He not only completed his term, he would’ve won one more election if the laws of US permitted it!! His public approval ratings were that good at end of his term.

    He was ‘impeached’ by a partisan US congress (by republican majority), and it fell in senate where it didn’t even muster 50% support, while it needed 67% to remove him. And what happened in house of representatives was nothing more than what happens in a ‘confidence vote’ in India all the time.

    Also, the impeachement proceedings on him was brought on not because he had sex outside marriage!! It was done on charges of Perjury – that he lied under oath about his relationship. HUGE DIFFERENCE.

    He continues to be one of the most respected of recent US presidents, Much more so than Bush-2, who is constantly ridiculed in spite of his ‘morally upright’ character.

    I couldn’t understand your statement about @Vinay! How can he have ‘pre-marital’ sex with his wife after his marriage??

    I don’t support married folks ‘sleeping with bitches’ (your words). It does show one’s lack of commitment to their solemn promise to the person they married. But, if they did – it still is a matter between Pati, Patni aur Woh.

    But, my support is to legalizing prostitution. For me it is a issue of personal liberty. I refuse to see a personal issue like sex through the prism of public morality & law! I don’t womanize, I don’t booze. But I refuse to term those who do immoral.

    Sex is something that happens between two adult individuals and is none of societies business. Unless of course violence/ force/ deception is involved. So, if someone chooses to sell sex for money, it is their business.

    Why is sex & pre-marital sex are such a big worry for you? Why does prostitution a worry for you?

    If you can pander your brain to earn a living,
    If you can expend your muscle energy to earn a living,
    If you can flex your voice to earn a living,
    what is so wrong about using another organ in your body to earn a living??

  26. Anonymous Guy Says:

    Seems dentists are experts at diverting from main issue in addition to being unethical…

    What has female foeticide abetted by doctors got to do with 101 other issues? When there is proof on national TV on this shameful practice instead of help stop it, doctors want to go and shoot the messenger.

    Do we need to bring back the British rule to stop this doctor mafia? Obviously the IMA does not want to do its real job.

  27. navollasa Says:

    @harkol
    you are the first person to find astronomical difference between removed and impeached.

    your justifications are a straight lift from porn stories.

    now tell me why singhvi resigned?
    also let me know about n d tiwari!
    also tell me about Tiger Woods
    also tell about Mike Tyson
    also Shane warne , Lalit Modi Nityananda…..

    tell me about sona gachi , mexico thailand sex tourism and condition of lives of people.

    tell me about one who is very very highly reverred prostitute who has served mankind bigtime..

    biggest of them all predict what might happen if Sonia comes under scanner!

    even in this age if you don’t know how world works its a big disaster harkolu.

    @Baba aka vinay mari,
    now everyone knows you had pre marital but why are you caring about my brain. i use it least and analyse these things. more sex means you lose vital dhatu needed for brain functioning may be that’s why you are seeing more stress. work on it.

    well germany has already replaced 50% of its demands by solar. given sun which falls on germany that’s a huge achievement.

    i don’t care about how much luxury you have built. i am with environment and will die with it, i have peace of mind. that is more than antilia or whitehouse or buckingham.
    look at baddi maklu Manmohan Ambani Lalit Modi Raja Mallya Reddy Kanimozhi Nityananda – all full of lies fear and money – what have they achieved in life?
    abuses from everyone .
    have they given anything to society – ZERO. all they have created could have been better done and whatever they have built will get destroyed in next decade.

    See Doctors like Devi Prasad Shetty , MC Modi and all the doctors who have not succumbed to criminal minded business circles. they will be reverred and respected for their lifetime.

  28. BangaloreBaba Says:

    navollasa, you are an old liar. That 40-50% that you are talking about was a record production for a few hours on one weekend. It was a “record solar weekend, where on 25th and 26th May, a record 22 gigawatts of electricity were produced through the midday hours of Friday and Saturday”. 40% of the country’s needs were fulfilled for a few hours for two days.

    In reality, Germany consistently fulfills 3% of its needs by Solar. Just 3%.

    This is the issue with Baddimakkalu pseudo-socialists. Misleading the public by wrong information and rhetoric. That is why I advocate a genocide against such people.

    But then navollasa, maybe you are not malicious, just illogical and stupid. I grant you that. Maybe you should be natural and have a little more sex. That might help you.

    Anyway, people like you should stop worrying about others’ sex lives. We know that you have always been “ugly and malnourished”, based on your previous posts. I can understand that you have led a jealous and bitter life seeing others do what you would love to do, but were never able to.

    And please, stop boasting about your “peace of mind” – you have none, it is perfectly clear from your comments that you are a bitter cantankerous old man. Peace of mind is as far from you as religious freedom is from Saudi.

    I implore you again, to talk sense, and not mislead people with wrong information and pseudo-socialist rhetoric.

  29. Sujith m bhide Says:

    We must understand that it is just another industry which involves investing the money and raking the profits, in the process there cans surely be certain frauds happening like anywhere else. True it is very sad but it is for the government or the supervisory agencies to plug the loopholes in the system. Till the day complete healthcare and education become free to anyone eligible in this country these things are bound to happen.

  30. BangaloreBaba Says:

    Seriously, I cannot begin to imagine how people can get away with making wild illogical statements, and then to add insult to injury, call it “brainy analysis”.

    The reality of solar technology today is that an upper middle-class Bangalore household, even if they cover their entire rooftop with solar panels, can run only around 50% of their light points with solar electricity. Please note – only light points, not any “AEH points” – no geysers, ACs, fridge, microwave, washing machine, iron box, dishwasher – you can only run 50% of your lights, fans, TV or computer, etc.

    And this, if you cover your entire roof with solar panels, which no one will do. And of course, you need to have a private roof first – so leave out all apartments.

    And we haven’t even spoken about the cost of installing the solar panels, doing the wiring to make it the primary system for light points with secondary as grid, and so on. Not many people will be thrilled with the idea. The technology is simply not mature enough yet.

    So much for decentralized solar. What about solar energy feeding the grid itself? Huh – land acquisition is a problem even to widen a state highway, and some bitter men dream about acquiring land for solar farms! The same bitter old men who are selling such impossible dreams now, will cry about “poooor formers losing land” when the acquisition begins.

    Yes, you can do it to some extent, you can cover some canals with solar panels, you can identify some barren land, you can give more subsidies for decentralized solar – but the technology is simply not mature enough yet to replace thermal and nuclear. But simply sitting and bitterly cribbing and whining without any knowledge of technical realities – really, this is not done!!

  31. harkol Says:

    Navollasa:

    Fundamental error – There is a huge difference between words ‘removed’ and impeached. Please check dictionary.

    Impeaching – is to bring a charge against someone.
    Removing – to eject someone from a position he holds.

    I know how the world works. Not everything the world does is right. At a time child marriage was accepted. Slave ownership was accepted. Sati practice was accepted. Adultry was punishable by death at a time (even today in some societies).

    The measure is if we want to be a Taliban or a progressive society. A progressive society de-criminalizes personal acts that doesn’t have any degree of deceit or violence.

    Abhishek Manu Singhvi’s case is due to a misplaced horror of the society on someone having sex with someone else!! The only folks who are concerned in that issue is him, his wife and the person he had sex with. How does it concern you in any way?

    The lives of prostitutes is so bad (all redlight areas you mentioned) because society criminalizes a perfectly natural act. It also leads the act to go underground & uncontrolled thus leading to unhygienic practices.

    As they say it is world’s oldest profession – practiced much before you or I started whoring our services (what ever it is) to our clients/employers.

    Pros weren’t treated the way they are now all thru history. Even Hindu scriptures revere them. Apsaras were nothing but whores, but they gave birth to so many demi-gods.

    Bharata (person whom our nation gets our name from) was the grandson of one such heavenly prostitute- who seduced Vishwamitra to save Indra’s chair!

  32. navollasa Says:

    @vinay Baba
    http://www.live5news.com/story/18739840/solar-power-in-germany-hits-new-record-level

    for the amount of sun on germany and still panels replaced its going to happen that way soon.
    renewable = solar+ wind+ etc.
    enadru konku aadade idre nidde barutha?

    socialist can never be baddi maga only a capitalist can. i never told i am a socialist. i am just putting sampathige sawal.
    the problem with you is if not capitalist you ought to think as a socialist – categorizing and classifying. jaathi buddhi sutru bidalvanthe.

    land acquisition for solar? why not use all politicians aka devegowda farms . anyways they are servants right,

    you went to worry about it. Modi has put it on canals. you dont even know how area can be utilized by how many ways without touching agri land. how much of barren lands can be utilized.
    kamale rogige kanodella haladine.

    @harkol

    you have a problem of seeing everything from one angle.

    you are mixing ‘prostitution’ with ‘having sex’ . both are utterly different. and your good old ideologies please keep it to yourselves.
    again you want to mix ‘service’ with ‘whoring’. that’s again to cover up what vinay has done and pardon his mistakes.

    if vedas tell you about masculine and feminine energy you will never understand that but if puranas tell shayaneshu veshya you will pick that up.

    were apsaras paid for what they do? what did apsaras eat. do they give free food for them or were stags have to pay entry tickets for bars and girls have free entry?

    grow up. i sincerely wish you not have a girl child.

  33. Emptymind Says:

    @baba ,
    you are completely wrong and gone out of way!
    Illuminating 4~5 rooms with 6Watt latest LED FIXTURES requires only 37WP,18V peak voltage SPV(solar photo voltaic) modules and 40Ah tubular lead acid batteries. This 37 WATT panel can be easily carried by hands. The area its cover is just 1112 mm X 405 mm (L X B)(ref: bharat electronic ltd). It will give 4~5 hours autonomy per day for fully charged batteries

    Note down This is just using ordinary PWM Charge Controllers. If used latest MPPTS(Maximum Power Point Tracking System) technology based CC it will further improvise efficiency of maximum power delivered from a given solar panel to batteries.
    If the same small 37W panel is replaced by 1KW or higher SPV modules I am damn sure it comes closer to the energy requirement of 4 roomed residence provided latest efficient MPPTS Implemented.

    Solar panel design technology also changing day by day, reducing its size for a given wattage. May be not knowing this, fools you in assuming its vast space occupancy!

    I had worked in R&D on Solar based products. You cannot fool me in this domain.

  34. BangaloreBaba Says:

    navollasa, you old liar, I can’t believe you are continuing this even after being exposed as a liar so many times.

    Your link says that solar electricity reached a record in May, and produced around 10%, which is a 40% increase. And that they are aiming for 40% sometime in 2020s.

    And in your earlier comment you said that “well germany has already replaced 50% of its demands by solar.” So you are either a liar or a person with no analytical and reasoning skills. In either case, you ought to shut up and stop talking about such things.

    And stop yammering about barren land and canals. As I said in my previous comment, we can place a few panels here and there on a few canals or barren land, but it needs to be done on a much more massive extent to make even a small dent in India’s consumption.

    Yeah dunce, go and acquire all politicians benami lands and place solar panels there. Huh.

    Man, I can’t believe that people like you actually exist in India, and have the guts to proclaim yourself as an “expert” on problems.

  35. BangaloreBaba Says:

    Harkol, let me give you background on the person you are arguing with. He is a 50 year old cantankerous old man filled with bitterness against life. Based on his previous posts, we know that he was ugly and malnourished throughout his youth, and though he had all the same desires that other youth have, his ugliness and nasty nature prevented him from being able to satisfy any of his desires.

    And we know that when such people grow up, they turn into prudish moral police and try to impose their prudish ideas on morality on the entire populace.

    navollasa, contrary to what you hope, it is you who should not have a girl child, not Harkol. Actually, you should not even have children. While I am not a believer in eugenics in general, you certainly ought not to contaminate the country further.

  36. harkol Says:

    Navollasa:

    huh! You and your Taliban like moralistic preaching!

    Why should an argument about prostitution turn in to ‘teri ma, behen, bacche’ kind of argument? Talk logically.

    I have two daughters, about to enter their adolescence. I don’t wish them to become prostitutes, but then I don’t wish them to become manual laborers or wage slaves either. But, it isn’t in my control as to what they’ll have to do to survive in future. Irrespective of what they have to become for a living, they’ll remain my children, and I’ll wish the best for them.

    Quite a few countries in the world have legalized prostitution. A study of 10 happiest countries in the world shows all the top 10 have legalized prostitution. Human development Index shows that majority of developed societies of the world have legalized prostitution. They are truly modern nations that have kept the best religion of all – humanism – as the basis of law making.

    Religions tend to preach a good path to people on the basis of prevalent life styles, but religion can’t be law because religion gets dated very fast and following it becomes dogmatic.

    Law is based on logic. All the arguments you are forwarding are not logical. Why prostitution isn’t about sex between two people? What is the difference between an Apsara having sex on order from Indra – her boss – than a Redlight area girl having sex on orders of ‘madam’?

    What is the difference between prostitution and a woman trading sex/other services (cooking, cleaning etc.) to a man she doesn’t love – in the name of marriage or other arrangement? Isn’t both about livelihood?

    What is the difference between a person cleaning your drainage or your toilet for money, as versus a person having sex for money? You may find it disgusting, but it is a fact of life. The law should only ensure it is a service that is conducted without exploitation.

    I may not hold someone cleaning drainage in high esteem, but I won’t bar him from society and make his job illegal either. That’s what our customs did – Making them untouchable. We can’t have prostitutes being untouchable either.

    As they say in english – “its a dirty job, but someone’s got to do it”.

  37. BangaloreBaba Says:

    EmptyMind, no one is trying to “fool” anyone here. While I have never done R&D in solar products, I have scouted around for solar products to purchase and install, pretty recently. In general, what works in the laboratory does not necessary work in the marketplace, you know that.

    Now, you are talking about 4-5 hours autonomy, with LED lights. That is quite generic. Let us talk business now.

    Now, here is my requirement: I want a 6KW 2-phase power supply. What I need to run is as follows: 3 ACs, 2 geysers (for backup only – I have solar heater), 1 large fridge and one small fridge, washing machine, dishwasher, submersible pump, water booster pump. Apart from that, there are lots of light points – 2 TVs, 2 computers, electric chimney, lights, fans, bathroom lights, exhaust fans, and all that stuff for a standard 4-bedroom house.

    Give me the following information: what is the size (in square feet) of solar panels I will need to install on my terrace to get this done? How much will installation cost (solar primary and grid backup)? I would like some free space on the terrace if possible, and not cover the whole thing with panels. How much autonomy will this give me, considering Bangalore’s weather? (provide the approximate scenario in May, in January and in September)

    And an additional scenario also: there is an apartment block with 6 floors, each floor has 4 flats. The terrace area is 6000 square feet. Let us say each flat has power consumption half of what I outlined above for my present house. What is the area of panels I will need to install to fulfill the power requirements of all residents?

    I am actually waiting to hear the answer to my first question. If you provide a reasonable answer (technically and financially), I will pay to get it installed, through you.

  38. BangaloreBaba Says:

    EmptyMind: correction, I need 6 KW three phase power supply, not two.

  39. navollasa Says:

    @vinay baba
    “but it needs to be done on a much more massive extent to make even a small dent in India’s consumption.”

    if you know this much i think i have proved my point.
    Oops some people are so dumb . i still am the master.
    you have learnt to change name slowly you will learn other wise characteristics from me.
    it will happen in due course. don’t worry. together we will eradicate greed and fulfill needs.

    i dont know why you are comparing me to taliban. first you have pre marital sex and are scared of taliban ram sene etc.
    that is what neither i belong to any of these groups nor i advocate them but still the fear in you wants to make me one of them and get scared again. i pity your condition and wish speedy recovery.

    @harko

    “What is the difference between prostitution and a woman trading sex/other services (cooking, cleaning etc.) to a man she doesn’t love – in the name of marriage or other arrangement?”

    i never talked about marriage.

    the problem is you are mixing everything – prostitution ,sex , service , work , marriage , cooking , cleaning ,untouchability etc everything as prostitution.
    this happens when a person is thinking only of sex all the time.
    i think you are pretty unsatisfied with your wife ,so watching and writing porn stories all the time.

    two daughters – i suggest you to get them married to some men of honour from dry lands and not tulu flesh traders.

    we did a grave mistake in getting you people transported to bombay – they have brainwashed you people to the core like nityananda.

    this is what happens if administration is not proper. today many districts are facing malnutrition, abnormal sex ratio and illiteracy.
    mangaluru being culturally feminine having got mislocated to bombay and becoming a serving class there is much to blame.

  40. DailyBread Says:

    Emptymind,

    >If the same small 37W panel is replaced by 1KW or higher SPV modules I am damn sure it comes closer to the energy requirement of 4 roomed residence provided latest efficient MPPTS Implemented.

    Thank you for the information.I am seeing a solar power revolution happening silently below the radar in my area (North Karnataka). I have heard that if you have an existing inverter, equipping the house with solar energy costs approximately 30-40000 rupees per KW. I know a start up in Bangalore which has commercialized a product which can run Air conditioner on DC power. I am all set for my ranch in my village, where charging of the batteries starts at 4 in the morning and stops at 7.30 in the evening.

    >Solar panel design technology also changing day by day, reducing its size for a given wattage.

    Half of rural & semi urban households which have access to rooftop will go off grid in next 25 years. Reva will become a vehicle of choice in areas where sunlight is in abundance.

  41. harkol Says:

    Navollasa:

    For someone who preaches so much, you mention ‘pornstories’ too often. You even say my words are ‘straight-lift’ from ‘pornstories’!! Surely then – you have read a lot of porn stories and have done in-depth understanding to have ready reference from which ‘stories’ I have done my ‘straight lift’ from? Care to quote?

    I get it!! You only search / read porn stories to know the type of sentences they use and to enjoy literary genius of the writers! So, it is OK for you to read it, but it is absolutely immoral for others to read it or justify it.

    huh!??

    I have never strayed from my marriage, never visited a pro. But, even if I had been to a pro – it is my business (and perhaps of my family’s) – not yours or anyone else’s. Law has no business in governing what folks do behind closed doors with consent.

    Movie folks may not lead a moral life by your definition – but as long as they do it by consent of parties involved – It is their life, their business.

    You seem more worried than me about my daughters! What My daughters do when they are grown up is their business – not mine or yours! I am not even sure they’ll choose to get married, but if they do – I don’t know who they’ll choose! I won’t be making decisions for them. I live without much expectation, with only a hope that they’ll be good humans and will lead a productive & Happy life.

    Don’t know why you dragged Mangalore here, but we Mangaloreans pride ourselves as one of the districts to have favorable female sex-ratio. Also, Mangalore has one of the very few matriarchal systems (bunt community) – in a Patriarchy dominated India. Mangalore also has high literacy rate. Compare these statistics to your favored ‘dry lands’.

    I don’t even know why you dragged in Bombay in your comments, because I have rarely been there.

    All your non-sensic blabber – like you ‘transporting’ folks to Bombay and Mangalore being “culturally feminine” and Clinton being removed from presidency, Vinay having pre-marital sex ‘after marriage’ etc. – show you may be suffering from hallucinations. Please get some help.

    But, If you think you are OK – then I’ll graciously concede this argument and let you live in your 18th century time capsule and continue to dream up your own Khap panchayat – condemning people for what ‘you perceive’ are moral / custom failings!

    I’ll move on with time.

    Bye.

  42. Emptymind Says:

    Daily Bread ,
    The most talked fuel cell vehicles are going to hit the roads of UK in 2015 and available for commercial use. Here hydrogen is the main fuel used to generate electricity to drive onboard electric motor of the vehicle.
    The hydrogen gas is obtained by the process of electrolysis of distilled water, where water is split into hydrogen and oxygen. The current required for this electrolysis process needs renewable energy like solar, wind or tidal energy. Hydrogen thus obtained is stored. Here Energy is stored in the form of hydrogen from sunlight.

    This stored hydrogen fuel can converted back into electricity to drive electric loads. here hydrogen tank is used instead of bulky battery system

    . Many scientists believe this will be new alternative for petrol and fossil fuels for vehicles which are going to exhaust in the near future. Hence there is always hope as Gulbarga and other parts of Karnataka are abundance in sunlight, should take advantage of it.

  43. Emptymind Says:

    @baba
    I have worked on your requirements.
    Just go through these technical specs of china based manufacturer.
    http://huaruite.en.alibaba.com/product/570407375-210638455/6KW_Solar_Power_System.html
    Here he is using 3200W (200W*16NO) Solar panel to dump solar energy into the battery storage system of capacity- 28800 W.hours(12v*150ah*16no). if we assume peak solar insolation of 5 hours a day and multiply that 5 hours with solar panel power rating (3200w*5hours)we will get 16 units(kWh) of energy per day which they claimed as- it can be used to drive those electrical appliances at daily basis.(here he is neglecting the efficiency of conversion)
    If the usage pattern is same throughout the month, total energy produced is 16*30=480 units which cost around Rs 4000 to Rs 5000 per month if charged by BESCOM!
    Here you can add few K Watt of solar panel extra later sometimes after initial installation. It is adaptable to change without disturbing the existing electronic circuitry.
    ON Grid system without battery storage doesn’t give any autonomy of power as it should be used only at time of production (only during good sunlight) if you want autonomy you must go with battery units along with its charger which adds extra cost apart from that of solar panels and the inverters
    Also You can be paid for dumping power into the commercial grid through reverse metering by the same BESCOM!
    Panel Cost per watt is around 100~105 Rs. Battery cost may be around Rs 10,000 for 12v, 150AH luminous battery, I am not sure for this one.
    Regarding size, read this
    http://www.solarselect.net.au/index.php?pageid=15
    Here for 6KW, he mentioned 54 sq mt, note this wattage is for solar panel power! Not the load power.
    54 sq mt is 581.251 ft²just closer to half of 30X40 feet roof.
    the area is still smaller if we consider the above example of 3200w solar panel. And also when it is tilted at some angle the effective roof area reduces.

  44. harkol Says:

    EmptyMind: Fascinating. Are you in an alternative energy business?

    Your calculation is a bit puzzling though. 480 unit will cost about Rs.2,800 at around Rs.6/unit, and the cost of the solution seems to be between 3-5 Lakhs.

    So, it’ll take about 100 months at the least to recover the cost??

  45. BangaloreBaba Says:

    EmptyMind, that is interesting information. But when I searched around in Bangalore, I found no solution even remotely approaching what you have outlined. I don’t think anyone here provides that kind of tech. Alibaba is notorious for suppliers who disappear, give incorrect quotes, people’s money vanishing, and so on. I don’t think I have the courage to order it via Alibaba and fight to get it installed by myself.

    It is good that such a solution exists, then it is only a matter of time before it is provided as a package in India. Anyway, in this thread I was just making a few points to the old hag, who certainly has no idea of any of these technicalities or market realities, and just shoots his mouth off.

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