CHURUMURI POLL: Who will be next President?

After weeks and months of speculation, there is finally some official activity in the race for the next President of India.

The Trinamool Congress leader Mamata Banerjee says the UPA chairperson Sonia Gandhi has revealed two preferences: finance minister Pranab Mukherjee as the first choice and vice president Hamid Ansari as the second. In turn, Mamata and Mulayam Singh Yadav of the Samajwadi Party have indicated their choices: prime minister Manmohan Singh, former Lok Sabha speaker Somnath Chatterjee, and former President A.P. J. Abdul Kalam.

The announcements turn the political applecart upside down.

Mulayam and Mamata have effectively snubbed Sonia, Manmohan and Pranab, thrown cold water over the overweaning ambitions of Pranab Mukherjee, cast a big question mark over Manmohan Singh continuance as PM and the longevity of UPA-II as an alliance and advanced the prospect of an early election.

So, which of the five names in the air could make it, should make it, to Rashtrapati Bhavan?

Or, all things considered, is this just kite-flying and could we see a totally dark horse (or mare) ride up Raisina Hill? And who could that be: Lok Sabha speaker Meira Kumar, Congresswomen Mohsina Kidwai or Margaret Alva? Or how about Sam Pitroda?

Tags: , , , , , , , , , , , , , , ,

95 Responses to “CHURUMURI POLL: Who will be next President?”

  1. Kumar Says:

    Majority of the people want APJ Abdul Kalam.
    But, Sonia Gandhi doesn’t like him, because he didn’t allow her to become Prime Minister!

    I think, it is better to select some non-political person for that post – chances of non-political person to be non-corrupt is more and also he/she will not be a puppet.

    I would prefer following persons:
    1. APJ Abdul Kalam
    2. E.Sreedharan
    3. Ratan Tata
    4. Narayan Murthy
    5. Aziz Premji
    6. T.N.Sheshan
    7. Anna Hazare
    8. Amitabh Bachchan
    9. Dr. Karan Singh
    10. Kiran Bedi
    11. Nandan Nilekani

  2. Deepak Says:

    While Kalam may be the best choice for President, Sonia will never agree to his name. And Kalam will never agree to contest if both Cong and BJP don’t back him.

    The Congress has to play its cards well and come out with a dark horse like Dr.Karan Singh who will be acceptable to all. If they try to continue to act tough, there will be a contest between its candidate and Sangma and the Presidential election will become a potboiler.

  3. Anitha Says:

    Dr, Kalam is the first and right choice for all right thinking INDIAN citizens. But what is good for India and Indians appears bad for UPA led government, considering the problem to which they have pushed this country. And BJP, inspite of my support to them, I should say this is handling the entire scenario in the most inept manner. There was no need for that loudmouth Sushma S to suggest Kalam’s name. Now if any other party/person suggests this name, rest assured, that suggestion will get drowned in the collective cacophone of refusing to support a candidate of communal BJP.

    We are sure to see one more rubber stamp, puppet president, in the tradition of all congess nominated/supported presidents. Sonia doesn’t like Pranab M for precisely this reason. Pranab might not have forgotten how he was treated when he said that he was open to becoming the PM of this country in the wake of Mrs.G’s death. And what better opportunity for him to deny Sonia in 2014 when it comes to a situation like that? Though he should be the logical choice of Congress, his ascendancy remains doubtful.

    Congess needs a fall guy to blame the defeat in 2014 elections. Who better than MMS to carry that crap? He is used to it by now. Also, asking the tenth passout Rahul to become PM now will only further expose his shallow grasp of Indian polity. So MMS will stay put.

    Hamid Ansari and S Chatterjee are political light weights. Even Mamata mentioned Somanath’s name lest she be seen as a spoil sport for a bengali becoming Prez.

    That leaves the room wide open for a dark horse/mare. Still early days. Lets have fun while it lasts. And amaze ourselves even more for the kind of incompetent nincompoops we have elected as our representatives.

  4. chidu22 Says:

    My choice is a kannadiga, NRN/Sudha Kulkarni.

  5. AS Says:

    Indian slaves want Rahul Gandhi (?!!) to rule them and bring back the golden age. For that MMS has to vacate the seat. So, MMS will be our new president.

  6. Nastika Says:

    My choice is MMS. He has proved beyond doubt that he can perform the rubber-stamp role. He has already done it for 8 years.

    ~*~

  7. harkol Says:

    If Rajmaatha has her way, it’ll be her Gardner. Last time she chose the chef – so sense of justice demands that gardner not be left out.

    But, I suspect this time she will find the going tough. So, it is indeed possible that she’ll have her pet made the President. He hasn’t even been barking or making any sound for a while anyway.

    So, it may be MMS afterall!!

  8. asha Says:

    The gullibility of the masses is baffling. Is it possible that Mamata and Mulayam are floating the name of MMS as president so that the PMs post which is sufficiently warmed can be occupied by the heir apparent or his sister in waiting or maybe even the son in law of the royal family….we have some interesting times ahead….

  9. dr ramesh Says:

    Not surprised that merit is being sidelined again for the coveted post of president. Two best choices should be DEVE GOWDA and pranab mukherjee.
    Devegowda has every credential but kannadigas want him to work towards bringing JD S to power on its own to achieve the goal of SARVARIGU SAMA PAALU SARVARIGU SAMA BAALU in karnataka.
    But consoling fact is pranab is still in contention , but pranab is so indispensable to Congress that it is reluctant to nominate him. He is my idea of a president.
    Concept of scientists, technocrats and other non political people becoming president of worlds largest democracy is detrimental to India, only an active, seasoned politician is accountable and can understand the intrigues , nuances and importance of Indian constitution.
    Election of a good president can restore some credibility to UPA 2.

  10. Deepak Says:

    He he he…Deve Gowda as President, what will he do there? Sleep? He may as well do it in BSK instead of Raisina Hill…rofl

  11. babuds Says:

    Two posts of president should be created in place of the existing one post and both Mr. Manmohan Singh and Mr. pranab Mukherji should be elevated as presidents and each given a separate rubber stamp. Hope such move will at least improve the financial situation and credibility of the country.

    Mulayam already backed out from supporting APJ,. Now SP, BSP, JD (U), RJD, Cong, DMK, Left all oppose APJ Abdul Kalam’s Candidature. Probably they have found out something wrong with him, which ordinary mortals like us could not.

  12. Anonymous Guy Says:

    Yes dr. Ramesh, let us keep the status quo going and help our politicians do their best in ruining the country. After all that is what we deserve.

    Scientists and technocrats can go to hell with their efficiencies and scientific methods.

  13. harkol Says:

    hmm. Appears it is going to be Pranab Mukherjee after all.

    We are indeed a great country. How do you succeed here?

    1. Muddle thru half-socialism for majority of your life. Spoil prospects of a generation of Indians with your crony capitalst, muddle headed socialism. Then become Finance minister and destroy the economy with your totally retarded policies.

    What do you get? A promotion!

    2. Use your dad’s office to run a crony capitalist empire, Give away land like it is manufactured in your dad’s factory in return for investment on non-existing or ficticious companies. When your dad is dead, demand you be made the CM. If not, make your own party, and when caught for corruption with enough evidence, use your incarceration as a ‘sympathy factor’!

    What do you get? A big win in bypolls and perhaps a chance to dictate the course of your own prosecution.

  14. Rohit Arora Says:

    of course Dr. A P J Abdul kalam sir is the best choice for 13th president if India..:)

  15. Nastika Says:

    Faking News: Importance of a vote

    Wish we had put similar efforts before voting, realizes aam aadmi

    New Delhi. Political leaders, who are perceived to lead a corrupt, criminal, and debauched way of life in eyes of the aam aadmi, could get the desired respect and status in the society thanks to their present conduct around the Presidential elections, experts believe. Aam aadmi could stop lampooning their leaders and start learning from them, a recent research claims.

    “As various leaders meet each other multiple times and reassess their position on Presidential elections, the aam aadmi in the country has realized how important a vote was,” Joginder Jadhav, an expert on social issues told Faking News.

    “An aam aadmi is realizing how much analysis and effort needs to be put before supporting anyone in any elections,” Jadhav explained, “He is contrasting this with his own effort that he had put when he voted in the last elections.”

    More: http://www.dnaindia.com/analysis/report_faking-news-aam-admi-could-learn-a-lot-from-politicians-say-experts_1702788

  16. Rastrakoota Says:

    Like the spirit with which Mamatha is taking on the Mother-Son Party head-on.

  17. jayashree Says:

    Makes no difference. Better question would have been ” Who would be the next Finance minister”. This has some logic!

  18. asha Says:

    For all those people who are raving about Pranab Mukherjee’s candidature for President’s post…here is some thing to ponder over….Pranab as Finance Minister signed a agreement with Swiss Government to disclose the names and account information in Swiss banks, of economic offenders after 1 January 2011, absolving all the economic offenders who have Swiss accounts prior to that date….no marks for guessing who he was trying to shield. When this guy becomes the president, we all know whose interests he will be safeguarding in Rashtrapathi Bhavan

  19. Curry Hurry Says:

    @jayashree “Who would be the next FM” might be a good Question, but the Raisina Hill resident has a very important role after the next Lok Sabha Gen elections in 2014 (or sooner). No wonder Tyag Maata and her minions are not inclined to consider APJ.

  20. asha Says:

    >>Muddle thru half-socialism for majority of your life. Spoil prospects of a generation of Indians with your crony capitalst, muddle headed socialism. Then become Finance minister and destroy the economy with your totally retarded policies.

    What do you get? A promotion! >>

    Harkol,

    There is another way too….allow unrestricted migration of Bangladeshi’s into Assam and provide them with ration card and thereby turning them into captive vote banks……
    Fakruddin Ali Ahmed entered Rashtrapathi Bhavan in this route…

  21. N.Krishnamurthy Says:

    Going by the present trend, for the three-hundred-and-fifty-or-so suite falling vacant there may be 350 applicants! We may allot each room to each and this’s the best way to avoid squabbles and skirmishes; we can build ‘consensus’ and present ‘best picture’ of ourselves to the outside world!

  22. Simple Says:

    A corporator has more powers than the President. So it does not make a dime of a difference whoever is elected. Having said that, it was clear from the beginning that it would be a walkover to Pranab.

    Churumuri readers have predicted Kalam would be the president. They are plain ignorant or dumb for this foolish prediction. Why do I say that?

    UPA was in a majority – and Congress would ensure Kalam would not get elected because Kalam has been saying from day one that he would like to become President only if there is consensus and not competition.

    Someone called H on Churumuri, would make an excellent president. All he has to do is take orders from RSS. He is very good at taking orders from that organisation. Which is why he keeps foaming at the mouth against Congress for no rhyme or reason. He is the biggest beneficiary of UPA rule in the past 8 years.

    India is the second largest economy in the world today. Nobody is being pink-slipped and there is plenty of money to dispose off. From malls to salons to restaurants to multiplexes to annual holidays abroad to fancy cars and even fancier interiors , people of India are spending like there is no tomorrow.

    And, Property prices are reaching the sky – can it happen in an economy which is on the downturn?

    Every other movie is hitting the 100 crore mark. It can happen only in an economy which is doing extremely well. Billings of movies which reach 100 crore mark, like Rowdy Rathore and Dabaang and Housefull are primarily driven by single screen theatres, whose audience are from the masses with jobs like masons, carpenters, drivers and waiters. If such people, considered at the lower rung of the society have the money , then my economy is on a song!

    From office boys to maid servants to garbage collectors, everybody owns a fancy mobile and a digital TV. Many even own cars. Drivers and maid servants quit job at the slightest provocation. Why? because there are plenty of jobs available in the market.

    For those WOW club members (Whining Old Woman) like some staunch anti-cong jerks, who aren’t in the least affected by the so called sob stories of Indian economy, but still love to sit at the desk and whine, there is only one thing to say “Pity, they allow themselves to dictated by the media, such whining old women have lost the capacity to think individually.”

  23. chanakya Says:

    Why no one recommend HD Devegowda……..

  24. asha Says:

    Chanakya…

    You are wrong..Dr.Ramesh did that but nobody listens to poor Dr.Ramesh

  25. the colonel Says:

    simple thank you very much for the views expressed.

    i always wonder what diff does it make to all of us if a rascal like pranab makes the grade or an ignoramus like anna replaces him.

    there was one mistake however wrt property in bang.

    chanakya you can recommend him

    As far as THE WORLD is concerned our economy makes the difference and not the first citizen.

    As far as India is concerned we are a highly civilzed society
    in a very advanced state of decay.

    Let the WOWs be, they do add some rotten colour to these totally bland pages..

  26. Deepak Says:

    @Simple
    What an economy we have – garbage collectors owning mobiles, digital TVs and cars – amazing!! And plenty of jobs in the market, booming economy, a rosy picture. And of course credit agencies are all in the payroll of RSS. How dare they lower India’s ratings?

    Inflation, sinking markets, slowdown in manufacturing, doomsayer industry leaders – of course this is all an illusion or all these guys are RSS chaddis. How can anyone dare puncture the balloon of the UPA’s booming economy?

    Doomsayers be damned! We have a brilliant Finance Minister who has made our economy No.2 in the worlds and is now promoted to President. And he is busy shredding his ministry papers to ensure that his brilliant financial strategies are not revealed to the world! And our superman PM ably assisted by the brilliant Montek Ahluwalia (he of the Rs.28 and hi-tech toilet fame) will now continue to super boom the economy and by 2014 we will be the No.1 economy in the world and UPA will win a resounding 2/3rds majority and the evil RSS can be clubbed with Al-Qaeda and banned!!

    Great scenario – but unfortunately its only in Simple’s mind!! Poor Congress supporters are now followers of Goebbels and repeat their lies so vehemently that they hope it may become the truth!! Tragic….

  27. Nastika Says:

    Gandhiji’s modern 3 monkey:
    1) Karunanidhi – who won’t see
    2) Mamatha – who won’t listen
    3) Manmohan – who won’t speak !

    From https://www.facebook.com/trollwala

    ~*~

  28. Simple Says:

    Deepak

    Grow up. Nobody has lost his job. Everybody is geting fantastic increments. From theatres to malls to restaurants to spas every place is crowded. People are spending like there is no tomorrow.

    If the economy was bad (as pseudo experts and pseudo rating agencies point out) nobody would be spending.

    The third class rating agencies which are downgrading India, did not think it fit to downgrade the banks which cause the recession in 2008. So much for their credibility.

    Talk facts. Not some imaginary mumbo jumbo in your head. Don’t repeat what these fake experts tell you. Think with your God given mind. Look around you. There is ENORMOUS economic activity.

    Slump? The only slump is in your body. Slumped over a chair, in some cabin and posing humbug on Churmuri which is neither factual nor funny.

  29. Deepak Says:

    @Simple
    Forget my slump dear, the slump in the economy is admitted by none other than your darlings the ‘President to be’ and the ‘One who warms the Prime Minister’s chair’.

    You are probably the only one in India who is saying that economy is doing well, so ‘O Fan of Kangress’ please open YOUR eyes and ears and your mind – you will realise the truth!!

    Adieu and all the best for your campaign to project India’s great economic growth :)

  30. Anitha Says:

    @Simple,

    It seems hilarious that you, of all the people who post their comments here, talk about facts. Real Facts. Actual Facts.

    Let me tell you why.

    In one of your earlier posts on NaMo, you rattled that villages and towns and cities in Gujarat are going powerless contrary to what NaMo says.

    I gave you the facts and figures, backed with newspaper articles about the power surplus status of Gujarat.

    You vanished.

    You rattled, yet again, of the enormous corruption in Gujarat government which CAG unearthed.

    I posted from the CAG report various facts and figures and showed that your data was half baked, crude and incorrect.

    You Vanished.

    Therefore taking data, facts and figures is not your forte.

    Have you seen any vehicle going downhill, without brakes??? Well, it moves fast. Very fast. Even without the engie. But the hill has to end someplace and the vehicle has to come to standstill, either by crashing or because it would stop eventually without an engine.

    That is precisely what is happening to our economy now. It is hurtling down the hill of disaster and you are enjoying the speed.

    Oh, I forgot. You wanted facts. Figures. So how about this??

    1. Today Business Standard has reported ” With a sharp rise in the import bill and an economic downturn, India’s Current Account Deficit has shot up”. Economi Times say ” Current account Gap at 20 Year high”. You know these Business Standard & ET guys are morons, they dont know what they are talking.

    2. Our core indurstrial growth, at 4.6% which itself was the lowest in months, was revised even downwards by your own government to 3.8%. They are wrong, Simple Sir, they dont know the economy is booming!

    3. Automobile industries have started cutting down on productions because they anticpiate a slump in the demand in the coming quarters owing to economic downturn. What do they know Sir?? You tell them that India is booming and everyone will buy cars and ask them to keep the inventory ready.

    4. NRN, Azim Premji, Deepak Parekh, Adi Godrej, Ratan Tata and a host of other business leaders have said that confidence in Indian econonmy is at an all time low across the world. But you ignore these bunch of igonorant morons Sir, they dont know what you know. We are booming.

    5. Sir, here are a few more facts for your kind consideration. These are for the month of April, 2012, published in May 2012.

    The capital goods output declined by 16.3 per cent as against a growth of 6.6 per cent in the same month last year.

    Mining output contracted by 3.1 per cent in April, as against a growth of 1.6 per cent in the same month a year ago.

    Power generation witnessed a slower growth of 4.6 per cent during April, compared to 6.5 per cent in the same month a year ago.

    Wake up Sid!

  31. Rahul Says:

    Somebody is simple minded here. When did India become the second largest economy! Even by the PPP measure we are fourth (OK third in some lists) far far behind the US and China. We used to be the second fastest growing major economy but I now doubt that. With inflation sky high I wonder if the poor people too have such simple ideas of the increments they should be getting. The only noteworthy simple truth is that the rating agencies are indeed third rate..

  32. Doddi Buddi Says:

    Henceforth and forthwith I am going to call Simple “Vithandawadh Aathankwadhi”. Let’s all hail the genius of Simple! Thanks to cretinous idiots like him along with Kapil Sibal and many fellow geniuses in UPA who have taken India beyond repair, Economic vandalism by UPA will take at least a few decades to repair.

  33. Pulikeshi the Last Says:

    If Pranab becomes Prez, will it put him out of the reach of all corruption investigation?

  34. Simple Says:

    Rahul, Inflation is not because of Central Govt. The BJP govt in my state increased milk prices, increased water tariffs, increased electricity, increased alcohol, refused to cut sales tax on petrol, increased property tax. Curse BJP for inflation not Congress.

    Deepak, if there is any slump in my country’s economy,it is still much much better than the India shining economy of Vajpayee, when India grew at a dismal 4 % at his time. The average growth rate of Indian economy under UPA is a fabulous 7.5% Really, facts speak for themselves

    Ms. Anita. For all the ‘facts’ that you reel off, it all dovetails to only one statistic that matters.

    here is the ONLY statistic that matters. India grew by 7.5% under UPA, while under Vajpayee it was a dismal 4%.

    Indian sensex grew by 125% under Manmohan Singh, while it was a negative growth of 13% under Vajpayee.

    Forex reserves are 100 times better than Vajpayee’s time.

    Today we are the second fastest growing economy in the world! Under Vajpyee we were nowhere in the reckoning!

    Oh yea. Ratan Tata is to be respected yes. He was the one who wrote to Karunanidhi that Raja is doing a fantastic job as a telecom minister. Then if his word is the gospel, why do morons like you hound raja?

    And are you talking about Ambani? Have you not heard of Rajat Gupta and Ramalinga Raju? Corporpate Crooks who are in the slammer now?

    Jeez, Ms. Anita, tell me have you lost your job? Lost your car? Bungalow? Are you eating leftovers sent from Ethiopia? No way Maa’m.

    People like you have brought a second home during this period of UPA
    People like you have got massive increments in salary during UPA time.
    People like you have gone in for bigger cars during UPA time.
    People like you are buying fancier more expensive gadgets during UPA time
    People like you are going on foreign holidays at the drop of a hat.
    People like you think less with your brain and more with your hate filled heart. hate the congress for no rhyme or reason.

    The biggest stumbling block for India to become number one economy is BJP.
    It stalled GST tax reforms
    It stalled FDI in retail
    It tried stalling nuclear deal.
    It stalled a hundred other things that is good for my country.

    Wake up Maa’m !

  35. Kumar Says:

    Simple> The biggest stumbling block for India to become number one economy is BJP.
    Simple> It tried stalling nuclear deal
    Remember the Pokhran. Why there is not another nuclear test after that!?
    And who tried to stall the Nuclear deal during UPA-1? And who succumbed to pressure from allies!?

    To understand how our economy is performing, we don’t have to get fooled by statistics.
    Goto villages and talk to the villagers; It is not difficult to gauge the mood of those villagers; You can easily understand that they are going thru most difficult time of their lives – finding it difficult to push days!

    And when people are suffering, the ministers from UPA are giving out statements that, minimum amount needed per person per day is Rs.56!!

    And there are people like you sitting in your own utopia and appreciating the UPA govt – because, you were able to lay your hands on your 2nd house, you were able to fly to foreign countries at the top of a hat….and you are assuming this is all because of UPA and not because of the profits that your MNC did!!

  36. Deepak Says:

    @Simple
    I sincerely hope Madam reads this post. If she does, you will be definitely be rewarded! You are the only Congressman who is so optimistic about the economy :)

  37. Rahul Says:

    Simple mahaswami, naanu vandhi maagadha alla. Only thing I can say is a plague on both their houses. Both are responsible for inflation and corruption.

    You have at least corrected your statement of India being the world’s second largest economy to second fastest growing economy. But the fools in the Cong and BJP cant see sense even if it came and bit them in the backside.

    Also stop crapping about forex reserves. When vajpayee took over as PM the resrves were 29 billion USD which became 118 billion USAD when he left office in May 2004 and the latest figure is 288 billion ( http://www.rbi.org.in/scripts/wssviewdetail.aspx?type=section&param1=2).

    Minna Antrim says, “Between flattery and admiration there often flows a river of contempt.”Your river seems to run dry.

  38. Doddi Buddi Says:

    There are lies, damn lies and Simplistics! Simple can you share some statistics on the state of affairs before Vajapayee took over? Facts don’t speak for themselves in this case. BTW thanks to soaring inflation all the gains you have claimed for UPA has been almost nullified. I am sure other posters here will soon give you the correct statistics.

  39. Simple Says:

    Rahul

    The forex reserves is much more than 200 billion USAD today. if today the economy is in a mess at 200 billion USAD, then Vajpayee presided over an economy in total ruin – at 118 billion USAD

    Cheddi Parivar Short Sighted fanatics eat from the plate of Congress, get so fat that you can’t even see your own feet. And feet happens to be grounded in reality. And since you can’t see your own feet, you are in some fancy imaginary world. I call you guys as the WOW club members. WOW as in Whining Old Wives.

    Kumar

    Before you froth at the mouth, remember it was Mrs. Gandhi Indira who first tested nuclear bomb in Pokhran way back in 1970s. Vajpayee was a mere follower. He was never a leader. He meekly followed what Gandhi Indira did. Still even if he did blast the nuclear thingie, his party did its best to put India back into the 14th century by objecting to the nuclear deal –

    UPA did not succumb to pressure from allies. It called the bluff of Left parties – and UPA won the confidence vote with ease. Educate yourself, get your facts right before you start berrating UPA.

    Tell me Kumar have you been sacked from your job? Are you eating Lizards for breakfast? People like you are the biggest beneficiaries of UPA – people like you go to hair salons and spend Rs. 4000 on one evening without batting an eyelid.

    People like you have ultra-dig bruches at Rs 3000 per head.
    People like you buy kilos of gold through the year – culminating in Askshaya Thrithiya.
    People like you have ensured a string of MEGA HIT box office successes in the last four years. (100 crores at the box office is no big deal today)
    People like you spend Rs. 500 in a cinema ticket.
    Go to a mall, go to a restaurant, go on a holiday, go to a waterfall, go to a picnic – you see people spending like NEVER before.

    This never happened in Vajpayee time . Yes, you should go to villages also and chek what is happeneing. There is harldy a village home with luxuries like TV and fridges and other gadgets/

    With all this money swirling around, neck deep in money you guys are. yet you have the nerve to keep whining about the economy.

    Facts, speak facts.

  40. Deepak Says:

    @Simple
    If you keep repeating a lie, it won’t become the truth. The best progress India made was in the Vajpayee era and UPA-I reaped its benefit. Once that effect worn out, the true colours of UPA has come out in the form of the economic disaster facing us. UPA-II is in the doldrums thanks to UPA-I’s poor economic policies.

    You may shout and scream about malls, gold, etc – but as much as you deny it, the fact remains that India is an economic mess, thanks to Congress misrule. And we are going to sink further now that the puppet himself has taken charge of the economy.

    Speak facts – real facts, not Goebbelsian facts!!!

  41. Rahul Says:

    Simple your blind loyalty will surely be rewarded if madam and her son CAN read what you write.

  42. Simple Says:

    Deepak, Point out facts. Speak facts. Facts. Facts. Facts. Your posting has ZERO facts. Just plain empty rhetoric.

    The REAL puppet is Gadkari.
    Puppet in the hands of a corrupt man like BSY.
    Puppet in the hands of Modi.
    Puppet in the hands of geriatric Advani.
    Puppet in the hands of RSS.
    Puppet in the hands of Sangh Parivar.

    Even a police constable has more powers than the President of the BJP. Nobody cares a whit to this man.

    Rahul, you will be couriered a dozen brand new chaaddis to your home by RSS – for your servile subservient low brow, low earthworm behaviour to the saffron parivar.

  43. harkol Says:

    >Vajpayee was a mere follower.

    Ha Ha Ha…

    Reminds me of congress argument – “We just followed the NDA policy of not auctioning spectrum”!

    What congress left unsaid “British made the policy of looting India and taking its wealth to europe – We just followed the policy”.

    And to think that the only time when Democracy in India was broken, Opposition Jailed and the constitution and fundamental rights were held in abeyance was under this great leader called – “Indira Gandhi”.

    I doubt if anyone can really “follow” her!! She is one of those persons, who turned from Hero (1972) to Zero(1975).

    The truth of the matter is India truly liberalized & grew under PVN & Vajpayee, because they were two leaders who enjoyed –

    1. Long enough tenure to make an impact
    2. Work Environment free of Gandhi Family burden

    Check history. Between 1992-2002, India created highest number of non-familial and non-commodity based Billionaires. The likes of NRN, Premji, Nadar etc. Premji was 3rd richest man int he world. These new age companies were the most powerful till 2003.

    Once Gandhi family was back in control in 2004, it was back to ‘socialism’ & ‘democracy’ of Indira Gandhi kind. Ensuring poor remain poor, and rich crony capitalists gained.

    Within next 5 years, these ‘commodity’ billionaires were back to being richest, and got into top 10 billionaire lists in the world. Their primary asset? Anything that govt. of India owned and gave away for a song – Gas, Coal, spectrum, Mines…

    That kind of record is something only a Congress Fanatic can justify and admire.

  44. sarathee Says:

    WHY NOT INFY NANI

  45. Deepak Says:

    @Simple
    Ok here’re some facts for you:
    http://www.ndtv.com/article/profit/rbi-s-d-subbarao-on-difference-between-2012-and-1991-crisis-306690
    RBI Guv says there is a crisis and such a big one that he tries to convince that its not bad as 1991!! Who do we believe? The Head of the Apex bank or a Congress loyalist?

    http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/pranab-urges-rbi-to-adjust-monetary-policy/1/200993.html
    Your President-to-be says these are ‘difficult times’ and that there is a crisis!!But you claim India is World no. 2? Who do we believe Congress loyalist Simple or ex-FM and President-to-be Pranab?

    Look at this link:
    http://www.thenational.ae/news/world/south-asia/singh-hints-at-reforms-to-revive-indias-economy
    PM and FM says we have to ‘revive’ the economy!!! Do you revive a sick patient or a healthy one? So who do we believe Madam’s loyalist Simple or Madam’s loyalist Mannu?

    Wake up and accept the truth!! We are in a royal mess, thanks to the horror called UPA-II.

    You may shower abuses on Gadkari, BJP and everyone else. But fact remains that Congress and UPA are sinking and will take us with them. Only hope is 2014, when we can get rid of the worst govt. in the history of this country!!!

  46. Rahul Says:

    Simple you fool, I call for a plague on both houses. But for someone of your subservient, servile, ( I will not insult earthworms which serve a very useful purpose after all, unlike followers of any political hue) anyone who does not agree with your sycophancy to the Congress must be a BJP/ RSS follower. I repeat a plague on both their houses and may the universe give you some sight to see things as thy are.

  47. Simple Says:

    Rahul, you started it by calling me a sycopant of Sonia. Well, does anybody who speaks facts become a sycopant?

    Harkol

    Are you a confused man by nature? I said Vajpayee followed Gandhi Indira in the nuclear blast. My point was specific to the nuclear blast.

    Yes, I still hold, Raja merely followed NDA’s policy. If raja went to jail, why hasn’t the telecom minister under Vajpayee gone?

    Deepak

    I am convinced you have a watermelon inside your head instead of a brain. Of course, the economy has seen lesser positive growth over the last quarter. But it iS STILL BETTER THAN THE SIX YEARS OF VAJPAYEE!

    At a miserable 4% GDP of Vajpayee, if India was shining, what would you call 6% growth of Manmohan? Lol. MUCH MUCH MUCH Better than the disastrous economy of Vajpayee.

  48. dr ramesh Says:

    Four years back bjp went chest thumping with crocodile tears saying that they have been cheated and gave example of punyakoti, now the same bjp is cheating a competent, dignified person who has performed well.
    Wisdom tells you punish wrong, injustice, indiscipline and reward right, competence and discipline but in RSS BJP ONLY MONEY AND CASTE MATTERS.
    Ill treatment of sadananda gowda by bjp will only help JD S by further consolidating vokkaliga votes. One must remember karnataka is SARVA JANAANGADA SHAANTIYA THOTA .
    Renukacharya, basavaraj bommai, narendra modi, udaasi, jaidev, mohan bhagwat, singhal, muthalik etc all are chips of the same block. Modus operandi of these people are the same.
    SEEING THE PRESENT DAY POLITICS IN KARNATAKA, ITS NO SURPRISE THAT PEOPLE ARE FEELING SORRY AND REPENTING THAT THEY VOTED OUT HDK LAST TIME AND HAVE DECIDED TO GIVE A THUMPING MANDATE TO JD S.

  49. Anonymous Guy Says:

    The problem is TINA. No alternative. By past record, the BJP at center has shown it is worse than congress when it comes to the economy. And worse at pretty much everything else. Things like crony capitalism will reach new levels in the hands of the BJP. For all its talk of organization, the puppet master RSS has proved it is neither visionary nor has what it takes to steer the nation on things which matter to the people.

  50. Deepak Says:

    @Simple
    Thanks for comparing my brain to that of a watermelon. Meanwhile, I am glad that you got it right in your lemon sized brain that we are facing an economic crisis!! So are you ready to retract your earlier hilarious statement we are the No.2 economic superpower in the world? .lol.

    @drramesh
    Wow! Thumping mandate to JDS. Hmm, probably won’t happen even in Deve Gowda’s dreams. But no doubt HDK was a better chief minister than this lot – but that was because of the support he got from BJP. Had JDS-BJP coalition continued, we could probably have seen good governance. Lets see, we may still have 20-20 politics coming our way….

  51. Doddi Buddi Says:

    Dr Ramesh,

    Let the Vokkaligas vote themselves silly with JDS! This will leave BJP or Congress to romp home in the upcoming elections. JDS was the best thing that has ever happened to BJP!

  52. Doddi Buddi Says:

    Time Magazine had MMS as ‘UNDERACHIEVER’ on its cover!! I wonder if he is being punished for all mistakes committed under NDA now: LOL

  53. harkol Says:

    Rahul, Deepak, Kumar et.al :

    Some folk are simple and daft.

    They find a great advantage in their house catching fire – either by saying ‘there was a bigger fire a few years back’ or by saying ‘look I am being provided heat in this global chill and I can also light up my cigar with cheaply now’.

    Their kookieness is best left to doctors. We untrained folks won’t be able to help them.

  54. Doddi Buddi Says:

    Dr. Ramesh,
    Sure DVS was very good for JDS! No wonder you are going to miss him! LOL

  55. dr ramesh Says:

    Deve gowda lost his prime ministership after 11 months due to conspiracy of Congress.
    sadanand gowda lost his position after 11 months due to casteist, corrupt RSS conspiracy.
    Congress feared then that if devegowda continued he might go on to become a great PM on the lines of shastri, so they plotted his fall.
    RSS bjp did not want a CM who has a brain of his own, they wanted a person who can fund the high command on a regular basis, DVS did not yield. So he was shown the door.
    H D kumaraswamy was gaining lot of popularity in karnataka, and he was the best CM since devaraj Urs, RSS bjp again plotted his downfall with reddys.
    IF YEDDY CAN HAVE HIS SAY EVEN NOW, WHY IS KESHUBAI AND SURESH MEHTA NOT HEARD IN GUJARAT?
    BJP TOP BRASS WILL HAVE TO FACE THE CONSEQUENCES FOR THEIR MISDEEDS.

  56. Pulikeshi the Last Says:

    Why does Dr. Ramesh create such elaborate fictions glorifying the Gowda family?

  57. Doddi Buddi Says:

    Tigers Whiskers The Ultimate,
    Dr Ramesh comments can only come from a one-of-a-kind-touched-in-the-head idiot! Lets enjoy his comments; he is more fantastic than Stephen King in a different sort of way!

  58. dr ramesh Says:

    Doddi,
    I can understand ur frustration and anger, JD S is set to gain the most from the present political mess. Even hard core CHEDDIS AND BJP ABHIMAANIGALU are fed up and to get over the tragic feeling they are going in search of bars and pubs, some are found waving TATA BYE BYE to passers by near jayanagar complex and Gandhi bazaar.
    Take it easy mate, its politics, my life or yours will remain the same who so ever comes to power.
    PTL,
    alla guruu, DEVEGOWDRU,ANNAVRU saadhane bagge nijaa helidru fiction antheera, NILEKANI, REHMAN, INFY, AMIR KHAN bagge nooru page sullu helidre nijaa antha nambtira—– yen madodu , idu yeddyyurappana kaala.

  59. Anonymous Guy Says:

    ramesh, Illu Aamir Khanara hesarannu tarbeka :)
    Nimma hero-worship noday, doddi nimma kaal yelithairodhu.
    Take it easy on gowdara guna-gaana. And stop claiming you are a Madhwa Brahmin, even if it is true. If you are a madhwa why are you not supporting RSS LOL.

  60. Vitlan Potli Says:

    Dactre,

    Please do not compare gowda with Shastri. No, do not even take up Shastri’s name in the same sentence as gowda’s. Shastrigalu nimage yen ree annyaya maadithru? Avaranna dayavittu bitbide.
    Poor chap must be spinning in his grave like no tomorrow.

  61. dr ramesh Says:

    AG,
    A TRUE BRAHMIN HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH RSS. RSS PREACHES A BRAND OF INTOXICATING, MATERIALISTIC, LUXURIOUS BRAND OF HINDUISM AND HINDIISM that no Brahmin or kannadiga or Indian can accept.
    Look at the treatment meted out to. RAM BHAT , a man who built a base for RSS BJP in dakshina Kannada when bjp was a non entity in karnataka. He is being humiliated day in and day out by RSS bjp.

  62. Kumar Says:

    Dr.Ramesh,
    You don’t know the background of Ram Bhat and also you seems not to know RSS.

    So, instead of asking people to look at a Bhat, Gowda or Reddy, it will be better, if you can explain the “INTOXICATING, MATERIALISTIC, LUXURIOUS BRAND OF HINDUISM” that RSS is preaching.
    Can you please list 10 such preachings and we will try to understand from that.
    And while listing the preachings, please use facts as much as possible and not speculations. If you want to quote something, then use the quotes from Bunch of thoughts or “RSS Vision in Action” and not from non-RSS sources.

    Please give us the list and educate us.

    Thanks.

  63. harkol Says:

    Dr. Ramesh:

    One of the rare occasion I’d agree with you. BJP has indeed neglected DK in general, and tried to make it a exclusive party of Lingayats!! Wonder why they can’t just make it party of all castes!

    Brahmins mostly follow Vedic traditions, not the Puranic tradition. RSS gets its inspiration mostly from Puranas – quoting endlessly from Ramayan, Mahabharat etc.

    BJP enjoys Brahmin support, but not just because of RSS ideology. It is largely because of Brahmins were looking for a party that provided them some respite from constant discrimination in all spheres.

    But, BJP has proved to be a clone of Congress, and the Brahmin vote will get divided more evenly in future.

  64. Kumar Says:

    @harkol,

    Ramayan and Mahabharat are not considered as Puranas. They are considered as Itihas or History.
    There are exactly 18 Puranas and nothing else is considered as Purana.

    If RSS quotes from Ramayan and Mahabharat, then that means they are quoting from history and I don’t see anything wrong with that. Even Mahatma Gandhi, Swami Vivekananda used to quote from Ramayan, Mahabharat, Bhagavadgeeta, etc.

  65. Nastika Says:

    @Kumar,
    If Ramayana is history then so is Harry Potter. HP has some quotes too.

    ~*~

  66. Pulikeshi the Last Says:

    Dr. Ramesh–

    If you truly believe that our lot is going to be the same no matter who comes to power, why do you want to impose the Gowda clan on us poor Kannadigas? By the way what do you have to say about one of Gowda’s sons, a simple former KAS aafeesarru, being under investigation for not being able to account for 500 crore of his wealth, more than ten times larger than his brother, the former CM, declared?
    The Gowda clan is far more wiley than most greedy politicians in Karnataka. Knows how to stay out of trouble. None of this makes the members of that family ideal candidates to lead us.

    Wish there were a God–“Parithraanaaya sadhunaam, vinaashayacha dushkruthaam.” Aaadare thaave hELida haage idu Yediyurappana kaala. The irony is that it hasn’t left you untouched.

  67. dr ramesh Says:

    Mr.Kumar,
    If u were following what is happening in RSS and its sister concerns in the past ten years, its clearly evident that it has failed its supporters and well wishers.
    a) RSS appreciates and endorses renukacharya, udasi, basavaraj bommai, shobha, anshuman mishra, janardhana reddy type of politicians, they symbolize modern RSS.
    B) gadkari, a classic case of a shrewd business man entering politics to expand his empire, gets total RSS support and free hand to run bjp like a business franchisee,— topline, bottomline, ebidta, profit after cuts etc.
    C) lavish lifestyles of RSS central and state leaders with their fetish for imported SUV’s , Honda, Hummer,BMW etc
    D) marriages of bjp and RSS leaders are multi crore events, where BMW cars are gifted. Simplicity, austerity gone for a toss.
    E) it supports ramdev types of people who call themselves gurus, but own private islands inUK, Fiji etc. have share holdings in many companies.
    Heltaane hodare. .. mugiyalla maanyare. Centralli nanna friendsu nange baitare baitare……..

  68. Kumar Says:

    Dr.Ramesh,

    You talked about RSS preachings and now you are talking about something else.
    Who said RSS apprecieates Renukacharya, Udasi, etc?
    That is all your imagination. They are BJP members and they are only answerable for all that. How is RSS responsible for all the misdeeds of BJP?

    And you mentioned: “lavish lifestyles of RSS central and state leaders”.
    If this is true, give me name of one central RSS leader and one state RSS leader who is leading lavish lifestyle?

    Again you mentioned: “marriages of bjp and RSS leaders are multi crore events”.
    BJP is like any other political party and I don’t want to talk about it now.
    But, can you give me name of one RSS leader who conducted “multi crore marriage event”?

    Instead of blaming RSS for the misdeeds of BJP and beating in the bush, can you directly come to the point?
    Give 10 preachings of RSS which is “INTOXICATING, MATERIALISTIC, LUXURIOUS BRAND OF HINDUISM”?

    If you keep blaming without brining any fact, then I don’t see any difference between you and Yedyurappa!

  69. asha Says:

    >>If Ramayana is history then so is Harry Potter. HP has some quotes too.>>

    Are you this stupid ??? Really

  70. harkol Says:

    Asha / Kumar:

    Ramayana is classified as history?? How so? Any references?

    It’d be indeed amazing if India had a different history of evolution than world.

    Talking monkey/bears, who can lift mountains. Gods roaming earth, and human king (Dasharath) assisting gods in their fights with Daemons would all be classified as mythology.

  71. dr ramesh Says:

    Mr. Kumar,
    Aatma vanchane, jaana kurudu beda. Mohan bhagwat strongly backed gadkari and got him a second term as bjp president. He proudly claims that gadkari is their man. Entire world knows about gadkari GHANAAANDARI KELASAGALU.
    Please come out of OSTRICH MENTALITY and accept reality.

  72. Kumar Says:

    Dr.Ramesh,
    Mohan Bhagwat has never told that “He strongly supports Gadkari”.
    Can you please point me to a credible source that has this information.
    Don’t give links to speculative news found in CNN-IBN or Times-Now or some such media houses.
    And you are still beating the bush and not ready to give “10 Preachings”. This shows that you don’t talk based on facts. There are RSS published magazines, media, books – you could have taken something from them and come for discussion.
    But, you don’t want a real discussion – you just want to throw some mud and see the fun!!

    Mr.Harkol,
    Look how easily you started teasing the Hindu related stuff. If you dare, do the same with other religions and let’s see your true secular colours.
    If you have not done your home work, that is not my problem.
    I never told that Ramayan and Mahabharat is a history that is different than the rest of the history.
    It is part of the history. But, it is not recorded in the way westerners recorded history.
    And India is much much older than all the nations of the world. And our ancestors didn’t think it important to record each and every event along with their date and time in history.
    That doesn’t mean that we don’t have history and whatever they have written is not history.
    And over the years, lot of exaggeration also has got added to these.
    After another 100 years, people might read that we had a god by name Mahatma Gandhi. That is the exaggeration that gets added. But, that doesn’t make the history itself wrong.
    When you are reading history, you have to remove the exaggeration and take the stuff that you think is real.
    That is where your intelligence and wisdom is used.
    But, I cannot help, if you lack those tow important aspects!

  73. Nastika Says:

    @asha,
    Indian freedom struggle is history. If it was mythology,
    * MK Gandhi would have built a bridge in air from Dandi to Delhi.
    * Bhagat Singh would have sat in fire and fire wouldn’t touch him to prove he is innocent.
    * SC Bose would have picked a mountain from Japan and planted in India.
    * J Nehru would have over-heard a loose talk on street and would have thrown his wife & kids out of their own home.

    Now the question is, who is stupid? You or me?

    ~*~

  74. Nastika Says:

    @Kumar,
    You are trying convert this debate into Hinduism vs Rest. But it is not. The debate is History vs Mythology.

    There is Greek mythology. And there is mythology of Moses dividing Red Sea and so forth. Those are not history. Hope you got the point.

    ~*~

  75. dr ramesh Says:

    Mr.Kumar,
    During these 4 years of bjp misrule in karnataka, full of dissidents and lust for wealth, many RSS FUNCTIONARIES HAVE BEEN IN THICK OF ACTION , BROKERING DEALS, COERCING, CAJOLING YEDDY AND GANG. world has seen it.
    Action speak more than words, in theory Congress ideology looks divine, but in practice?
    RSS bjp men speak well quoting from Vedas, Upanishads at will, but their performance and conduct?
    Renukacharya tells often that yeddy is not behind revolt against DVS, yeddy has no interest in power politics—— its similar to RSS saying cultural nationalism, simple life, austerity …….
    One can’t cheat people for eternity.
    There are far better, important and knowledgeable things to read in life than read RSS literature .

  76. Deepak Says:

    @harkol
    So it is decided that Ramayana is not history; how about Jesus Christ? How about Buddha? How about Mohammed? Are they historical figures or mythological figures?

    Is the crucifixion of Christ a historical event or a mythological event? How about the flight of Muhammed? Or Buddha attaining Nirvana? Are they all mythological events? Can you please shed light on this sir?

  77. Deepak Says:

    @harkol @Nastika
    So it is decided that Ramayana is not history; how about Jesus Christ? How about Buddha? How about Mohammed? Are they historical figures or mythological figures?

    Is the crucifixion of Christ a historical event or a mythological event? How about the flight of Muhammed? Or Buddha attaining Nirvana? Are they all mythological events? Can you please shed light on this sir?

  78. Kumar Says:

    @Nastika,
    After another century or so, lot of exaggeration will get added to those facts. With the way public life is deteriorating, it will become difficult for people to believe that, people like Gandhi and Subhash Chandra Bose sacrificed for the sake of country. So, people will certainly make them god like.
    So, if you cannot separate seed from chaff, then it is your problem. Just because chaff is present, the seed itself will not become useless.
    By saying that, there is exaggeration in the stories of Ramayana and hence it is not history, you are advising to throw the seed along with chaff.
    So, go and see in the mirror. It will show you who is stupid.

  79. Nastika Says:

    @Deepak,
    My comments above answers your question. In general, any *miracle* is a mythology.

    BTW, probably you were not attentive in history class. Which history book has description of Raghuvamsha dynasty?

    ~*~

  80. harkol Says:

    Deepak: I wonder what is the relevance of Christ/Buddha/Mohammad here?

    If your point is none of the religious figures are historical, that isn’t what I was asking. My question is restricted to the literature called Ramayan/Mahabharat, which are classified as history by some folks.

    IAC, since you brought up this point. It is clear to me that most of bible is myth (world wasn’t created in 7 days), most of stories surrounding Buddha or Mohammad and Shankaracharya are myths as well. For me, most of Veda is mythology as well. Religions come with their own mythology.

    But, I wasn’t talking about that. Why are you throwing a straw-man argument at me?

  81. harkol Says:

    Kumar/Asha et.al:

    Since we segwayed in to subject of religion – To clarify my thoughts on the subject – Human mind is too small to comprehend or define the true nature of universe. Since it can’t even comprehend the size of it all, various folks at various times have tried their best to think up their own version of it. Most of those folks have given it a structure, and claiming it to be the creation of GOD.

    But, Most of these literature are works of imagination. Just as Harry Potter is. There is no way to prove Harry potter doesn’t exist! You can’t prove a negative.

    Some of these literature may be facts – like persons by name Rama, Krishna, Buddha, Mohammad, Christ etc. may have existed and a very small percentage of the stuff that’s written about them may be facts.

    But, to believe the whole texts to be historical fact, is equal to believing Harry Potter stories to be true…

    Science requires evidence, and mathematical proof. And science demonstrates to us that Moon revolves around earth, we revolve around Sun, and Sun revolves around a black hole called Sagitarius A* which is at the center of Milkyway Galaxy. Our entire solar system is moving at a speed of 220km/second across the space, and takes 200million years to make one full cycle around milkyway galaxy.

    Milkyway Galaxy in turn revolves around the center of what is called as local-group cluster the center of which is likely to be a Super massive Blackhole, which in turn revolves around the center of a super-cluster. All the galaxy are tied together by a cosmic bond of gravity.

    Beyond this even science doesn’t know the nature of universe. Science doesn’t know if it is really a universe or Multiverse. All we know is nothing is static and nothing is permanent.

    So, it is naive of us to think someone a few thousand years back could’ve defined accurately everything about universe and ‘god’ and a right path for man, without even knowing where we are headed in future. By probability – they may have got some imagination right, but they must’ve got most of it wrong (as with all imaginations).

    So, there can’t be a true religion/path. But study of history/science needs higher degree of proof.

  82. Nastika Says:

    @Kumar,
    > After another century or so, lot of exaggeration will get added to those facts
    You say a century. Let me go back 5 centuries. Nobody say Akbar could fly. Lets go back 22 centuries. Again nobody says Ashoka could fly. So going forward, after 10 or 50 centuries, nobody will say Gandhi could fly in 20th century.

    > With the way public life is deteriorating
    Wasn’t public life deteriorating in Treta Yuga, which is atleast 2 million years ago and just when the ice age started?

    ~*~
    Do you guys really believe mythology is history? And I thought only kids think Santa Claus is real…Hope you guys don’t think astrology is astronomy.

    ~*~
    @harkol,
    There is hardly any miracle done by Buddha. Miracles attributed to Buddha are very very minor.

    ~*~

  83. Firstreality Says:

    Nastika and harkol, i suggest you not to spend any more time on putting logic into Asha’s kind. People are generally dumb, but get spectacularly dumb moment their religion comes in.

    As far president goes, does nt really matter who it is. Just a ceremonial post and waste of our money.

  84. harkol Says:

    Nastika: Oh you’d be surprised. Check Tibetan beliefs. And also all the Bodhisatva incarnation stories.

    Most of the religious beliefs are works of someone’s imagination, without any foundation, or a way of life adopted for a particular time/place.

    Reminds me of an annecdote. An experiment was conducted on 10 monkeys. A banana was hung on the top, and whenever Monkeys reached out to the banana a cold shower would flood the room, drenching the monkeys. Over a few days, Monkeys understand that
    reaching for the banana results in pain.

    Then one of the monkey was replaced with a new monkey. Not knowing the learned wisdom, it tries to reach out for banana, and rest of the monkeys jump on it and beat it up – not wanting to get drenched. The new monkey learns that reaching for Banana results in getting beaten up.

    They further continue to replace monkeys, till all the monkeys are replaced. Even at that time, if any new monkey tries to reach out to the banana, other monkeys beat it up, though the showers haven’t been operational for weeks!!

    Lesson: The acquired wisdom, without checking for proof can result in silly beliefs.

  85. Anonymous Guy Says:

    But, but, Ramayana is history. The monkeys were south indians, the gods were aryans. Ravana was a sexy sri lankan. The kshatriyas led by the great brahmins, used their had magic powers and nuclear weapons as described in the vedas; attacked and defeated the wicked rakshasas enemies. Non-Aryans were different types of talking animals or worse – some good monkeys, some good vultures, some bad demons; all helping the good guys follow their destiny.

    This stuff was great to fool and control the masses, at a time when most people had no access to knowledge. If Harry Potter came out when Ramayana/Mahabharata did, it would have been the sacred truth too. Unfortunately now we have western inventions like the printing press, books, radio, TV, internet, telephone; so this kind of ‘history’ has lost some of its power.

  86. Emtymind Says:

    Oh God! Debate as been shifted from President election to Mythology vs History or Religion vs Science.

    As no other choices I have to agree the opinions of nastikaru(Nastika and Harkol).we should not believe something we have not experianced. If we believe, it leads to superstion and more probabilities of exploitation. We are already witnessing this in our surroundings how religious fundamentalist exploiting the common people with their beliefs.

    But……

    Science has not explored real source of Life.Its knowledge on “Mind” is very very limited.
    Science has got only Mundane Mind. It always tries to fix this mind as its “fixed referance frame” and Experience only “external” materialistic world. It experiments only external world .

    Its experiace only through five sense organs which they have attested as ONLY Sense organs- eye, ear, nostril organ, tongue, body.

    Coming to Religion…

    In Zen Philosophy there is mention of another sense organ along with above five, what we called as “common sense” –“the mind”.

    In the past couple of century we not only lost “comman sense” we start calling whatever it experiences as “fiction” or Myth!

    Religion’s working is quite opposite ,it suppose to change that fixed referancee frame (Mundane Mind) to Supranatural Mind or No-Mind by living in altruistic life and experiane the inner world. It experiments only- “The Mind”.

    The common intersection of both Religion and Science is only one factor – Experience!! If you do not experience any belief(including science) better it remains as dogmatism to prevent misuse of it.

    History vs Mythology

    history is the product of only “5 sense organs”.

    Mythology is product of Sixth sense (Mind) and may(or may not) be from other 5 sense organs.

    Dualism between History and Myth just evade if Mundane Mind becomes Supranatural Mind. That’s why all great personalities like Buddha, Krishna, Jesus were narrating too many Mythological charecters in thier preachings. Affcource we can fly in our imagination!! :)
    Even History becomes mythology at that state of mind!!!

    And Mythology provides lots of glamour to our colorless History which we always reluctant to read.

    Proof-
    Now History can equated to daily news papers. Mythology can be equated to science fictions or Bhagawad Geeta, or Dammapada or Bible.

    Newspaper once read, finished!! It is fit only to cover bajji bonda
    .
    Where as in Geeta, Bible, Dammapada or Science fiction, it pulls to read again and again. Every time new ideas arises. Its fit to be in our showcase!.

    Even Albert Einstein was counter intutive(another kind of fiction or Myth) all through his days like time dilation, Length contraction and Reverse flow of time!, experiment it rigorously before it becomes intuitive one day! read more about his “Twin Paradox”.

    At last, Long live Mythology!!! you will be always entertaining to human being!! we need to propagate more and more Purana Punya kathegalu for the betterment of the society. but we should not forget “Experience”!!

  87. markol Says:

    @harkol

    don’t mock tibetan beliefs unless you are aware of it . atleast they had the wisdom to preserve what vedic bastards threw out of india.

    i know you are a tulu.
    just see how aishwarya married a tree for sake of vedas.

    jagada donka neeveke tidduviri modalu nimma donka tiddikolli.

  88. harkol Says:

    markol:

    Thanks from Bringing in ‘Tulu’, Aishwarya & ‘vedic bastards’ in to this discussion! Surely, for you, Tulu speaking millions & ‘vedic bastards’ are all the same, as All jews were same to hitler!

    I know enough about Tibetan Buddhism to say there have rich mythology & Culture. They have deamons and Godesses in their mythology. Tibetan Mahayana Buddhism believes in ‘bodhisatvayana’, the belief that Buddha reincarnates.

    I don’t mock religions. All I say is all religions have ‘myth’ology that one chooses to believe in. Check meaning of words:

    Fact = A concept whose truth can be proved
    Logic = Reasoned inference. It can be correct or wrong.
    Science= “Knowledge”. As known/testable/repeatable today.
    Veda=”Knowledge”. But, as defined thousands of years back.
    History=A record of past events.
    Belief = Any cognitive content held as true
    Myth = A traditional story accepted as history

    Thus Myth = Belief without needing proof.

    History needs some record – Documentation by independent contemporaries, Edicts/stone carvings, archaeological/architectural proof and other evidentiary proof.

    Some part of Ramayana/Mahabharata may have some truth. Ramayana refers to far too many geographical locations that are real, so it is perhaps possible some people described are real as well. But, most of it is a traditional story, believed without requiring proof or logical reasoning.

    Most faith systems are the result of Logic of a person or bunch of people of a particular time period. It may have sounded reasonable at the time, but they may not stand the ‘logic of today’. Shankaracharya is said to be the foremost expert of ‘tarkashastra’ (Logic) of his time. Surely, what he preached was logical at his time.

    But, what is logical today may not be logical tomorrow. What is history today may change tomorrow, What is accepted as science today will change tomorrow with new evidence, what isn’t accepted as history today may be accepted tomorrow. History/science = ‘logic of today’. Religion=’Logic of time long gone’.

    All I said was there can’t be universal, timeless truth, because universe itself changes, and it isn’t understood.

    Since you just ‘advised’ me to correct my ‘donku’ before correcting others, I suppose you have already corrected all your ‘donku’ before trying to advise me? Ha!

  89. markol Says:

    @harkol
    “All I said was there can’t be universal, timeless truth, because universe itself changes, and it isn’t understood”

    to talk about (if it can be talked upon ‘here’ ! ) timeless truth first you need to pre empt your thoughts and knowledge (vedas) with timeless emptiness; that was the reason i ‘observed’ “donku” ( not advised )

    if you are trying to compare to yourself and tulu banking community to jews and then me as hitler (and then fantasize the same with karnataka’s political situation ) let me remind the path which Hitler is related was sketched by dedicated orthodox jew – Karl Marx .

    knowledge is circular and repetitive . beyond and empty of knowledge – veda’anta’ is where time and division stops.

    pleasantly reminded of the cultural ambassador singing
    nadavante vedavante ondu tiliye na….

  90. harkol Says:

    EmptyMind:

    You are right.

    Our biological limitation and why we can ‘never’ truly fathom either Universe or what is normally described as GOD. It is our biology that always needs a cause & effect – and we assume there is a cause for our existence – that leads us to search for answers.

    Einstein mostly based his conclusions on mathematical proof, which is deductive reasoning. Mathematical proved concept is a theorem (till then it is conjecture), but most scientists still look for empirical evidence, before theorem itself is proved, before accepting it as ‘FACT’.

    There were instances when Einstein & his follower’s belief was almost religious. His theory of General Relativity was expanded to show the theoretical possibility of Black Holes by some scientist (Can’t recall his name) in 1915-20. But, Einstein thought it is not possible for Blackholes to be formed as the matters collapsing would stabilize the structure. The Einstein & General Relativity community didn’t accept existence of Blackholes for decades.

    Since none of our senses can directly see a ‘blackhole’, it is difficult to empirically prove its existence too. But, scientists did it by using x-ray telescopes and observing motion of stars that revolve at high speed around presumed blackholes. In fact, they found that the center of our own milkyway galaxy is a massive blackhole!!

    Check these – http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/chandra/multimedia/saga.html

    So,
    The major difference is science states what it doesn’t know for sure as hypothesis/theorem. I haven’t seen any religion that says “I DON’T KNOW” about anything! Religions foster belief systems without needing proof & empirical evidence. Science demands both.

    But, as you said, In explaining our origins & purpose – the Religious answers are as unconvincing as Scientific ones. Especially when it comes to answering causal questions.

    This video explores the question at hand:

  91. harkol Says:

    markol: I didn’t ‘talk’ about ‘timeless truth’ because I don’t think there is one.

    IAC, Apparently you seem to see my ‘donku’, so it is up to you to correct it. Good luck with your ‘timeless emptiness’, apparently you’ve been fairly successful with ’emptiness’ and it rubbed off on me – I couldn’t even make sense of you post.

    Bye.

  92. Emptymind Says:

    Anonymous Guy.
    Vedic people indeed had nuclear weopon! Say how?

    In thought and in Rule!

    Just think heavy nucleas (unified human civilisation) has been bombarded with high energy neutrons(rule by made by Manu), it split heavy nucleas into four sub nucleas(four Varnas). It further split into dozen nucleus

    Enough! Chained reaction followed the process and now we do not have count on number of lighter nucleus(Castes).

    Vast amuont of energy liberated during the process. some amount is utilized for the betterment of selective sections of the society. But most of the energy left uncontrolled it starts destroying the system itself.! It is longest running process and we still tasting its effects !

    And now, who says Nuclear bomb first dropped in Hiroshima?

  93. Emptymind Says:

    Harkol,

    I concur with you.

    Organized religion(please leave its founder) has always been using weapon of Force and Threatening on illiterate mass to believe their faith. It tries to create fetter around us and alienate from the rest of the system. The key is to break that fetter and think beyond religion (including science).

    Here some of the brainy quotes-

    1. All religions, arts and sciences are branches of the same tree.

    2. The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing.

    3. Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.

    4. Imagination is everything. It is the preview of life’s coming attractions.

    5. Imagination is more important than knowledge.

    -Albert Einstein

    “Do not go upon what has been acquired by repeated hearing, nor upon tradition, nor upon rumor, nor upon what is in a scripture, nor upon surmise, nor upon an axiom, nor upon specious reasoning, nor upon a bias towards a notion that has been pondered over, nor upon another’s seeming ability, nor upon the consideration,

    When you yourselves know: “These things are good; these things are not blamable; these things are praised by the wise; undertaken and observed, these things lead to benefit and happiness,” enter on and abide in them.”

    –Kalama sutta by Lord Buddha.

  94. Emptymind Says:

    Anonymous Guy.

    Vedic people indeed had nuclear weopon! Say how?

    In thought and in Rule!

    Just think Nuclear fission reaction –
    Heavy nucleas (unified human civilisation) has been bombarded with high energy neutron(rule made by Manu), it split heavy nucleas into four sub nucleus (four Varnas) and few neutrons(new set of rules). It further bombards another set of nucleus, split into dozen smaller nucleus and again new set of neutrons(again new set of rules)

    Enough! Nuclear Chain reaction followed the process and now we do not have count on number of lighter nucleus(Castes).

    Large amount of “Binding energy” released during the process. some amount is utilized for the betterment of few sections of the society. But most of the energy left uncontrolled as it is positive feedback system(which is uncontrollable and explosive) it starts destroying the system itself ! It is longest running process and we are still tasting its effect !

    And now, who says Nuclear bomb first dropped on Hiroshima?

  95. markol Says:

    @harkol
    “it rubbed off on me – I couldn’t even make sense of you post”

    that moment when you ‘listen’ is when time ends – total emptiness no thoughts no sense – that’s the timeless movement.

    rest all what you have said – the thoughts the data and time bound theories are circular – they will keep reappearing.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s


%d bloggers like this: