Is Infy becoming Narayana Murthy’s property?

For over a decade starting in the mid-1990s into the early 2000s, Infosys co-founder N.R. Narayana Murthy enjoyed a well-earned, larger-than-life, holier-than-thou persona through his various public interventions.

As politicians, bureaucrats, businessmen (and everybody else down the food chain, including the media) ran adrift in post-liberalised India, Murthy struck the right note, saying the right thing in just the right sort of way and at the right place, which made him the darling of the urban, literate, English-speaking, TV-watching middle-classes.

While his capitalist-compatriots hogged all the profits, there was Murthy making millionaires out of his own employees by giving them stock options in the company. While everybody shamelessly latched on to power, there he was resigning from the Bangalore international airport project because of a spat with H.D. Deve Gowda.

While everybody was hailing India’s education system, there he was pointing out the problems in them. Why, he was even credited with contemplating to revive Rajaji‘s Swatantra Party, which opposed socialism and rigid controls, as a way out of the morass that mainstream political parties and politicians had pushed India into.

Narayana Murthy was even spoken of as a possible President.

But of all things that Murthy said in his strange, American twang, the one that struck a chord among “People Like Us” (PLUs) was his defence of merit as the lifeblood of a country on the ascendant. As politicians rolled out reservations left, right and centre to protect votebanks, Murthy (who idolised Singapore’s Lee Kuan Yew) bravely batted for meritocracy.

Merit is the lifeline of any organisation, he said.

“Infosys is an absolute meritocracy. Even in a meritocracy, other things being equal, you have to give opportunity to the more experienced candidate. Whether it was Nandan Nilekani, Kris Gopalakrishnan or Shibulal, they are absolutely top class and they have been running this marathon longer than some others. Their is no question of (any discrimination) between founder, non-founder. I have no hesitation in saying we are the most professional company in the world,” he said in a 2011 interview.

Which is why the drama surrounding Narayana Murthy’s 30-year-old son Rohan Murthy shows NRN in poor light.

First the 30-year-old (who is married to the heiress of the TVS group) was brought in as an executive assistant to NRN following Murthy’s return to Infosys, which in itself was something NRN did not advocate in public. (Rohan Murthy, who is “on leave” from Harvard, was paid a farcical salary of one rupee a month, apparently at his request.)

Now, less than three months of the appointment, comes a move to elevate executive assistant Rohan Murthy as vice-president Rohan Murthy although NRN had said just three months ago that there would be no leadership role for his son. Obviously, questions of corporate governance, a phrase that repeatedly tripped out of NRN’s tongue have been raised.

Does Narayana Murthy’s hypocrisy stand exposed with the latest move? Should the ministry of corporate affairs allow Rohan Murthy’s elevation to go ahead? Can a publicly listed company be so susceptible to the pressures of a founding family? Does NRN’s move to elevate his son show that blood is thicker than water?

Is something rotten at the Sikkapatte Important Company of Karnataka?

Or is it all OK because dynasties are a way of life in India?

 

Also read: Come again, in spite of government or because of…?

CHURUMURI POLL: Is Infosys a ‘body shop’?

‘Indian IT does not benefit its own people’

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54 Responses to “Is Infy becoming Narayana Murthy’s property?”

  1. Apoorv Says:

    For a company that pioneered all sorts of processes (CMM, CMMi, pCMM, ISO*) etc so that an organisation is process centric and not dependent on individuals, it was ironical that they had to call back that one individual who started it all. And that man came back with his son as his EA and now a VP. What’s corporate governance?

  2. Deepak Says:

    It is a public limited company, as long as the Board of Directors are ok and shareholders are ok, its fine. No one has a right to question them on whom they can make A VP. If someone is aggrieved they should forcibly call an EGM and get the decision rescinded. If it can’t be done, then nothing can be done and no one needs to waste time talking about it, its perfectly legitimate.

  3. Communal Award Says:

    Oligarchy

  4. Anonymous Guy Says:

    System of India.

  5. RC Sharma Says:

    N. Murthy has built Infosys brick by brick. New VP is academically much better qualified than Rahul Gandhi. And he has already experience of corporate world.

    Is Cong Sonia’s property? Is SP Mulayam’s proprty?

  6. Nastika Says:

    If HDD can get HDK in JDS, if BSY can his son into LS via BJP, if the scion RG is the flag bearer of INC, then why can’t NRN get his son to replace him in INFY?

    PS: Check out whats happening in HCL, Videocon, Jindal, or just any other company in Bharath. NRN is just a sweet talking chameleon. Why should he be different?

    ~*~

  7. harkol Says:

    The answer to this question is obvious.

    Infosys was as much about Narayan Murthy as Apple was about Steve Jobs. They may not have been their largest shareholders, but the companys they created were known by them.

    So, Yes – Infy was always Narayan Murthy’s ‘property’. He chose not to make it as such for a while, and now it seems he has had a change of heart.

    ***

    Apoorv:
    >What’s corporate governance?

    Corporate Governance is about transparency in decision making, accountability, not lying to shareholders (i.e. disclosure of bad news), abiding by law & standards.

    What’s that got to do with one of the largest shareholders of Infy becoming an EA or VP?? Don’t forget Rohan Murthy, personally, is one of Infy’s largest shareholders.

    ***

    Churumuri:

    What NRN is doing is against the principles he laid out. It is not so much bringing in Rohan Murthy as the way he brought him in – parachuting him to the top.

    This is how dyansties operate world wide. India is not the only country to have business dynasties. US has many too.

    The difference is to be able to control a company in US, a dynasty will need to have atleast 30-40% stake holding (if not 50+%).

    In india, with govt. financial institutions (LIC, UTI etc. etc.) holding a large portfolio of stocks in private companies, it is easy for ‘promoter’ to control a company with just single percentage share holding!

    This is why the shareholders of INFY should oppose elevation of Rohan. He is qualified, and can work as his father’s assistant, but not as a top executive in company. That’s plain wrong.

    he doesn’t have the experience to be an VP. Let him put in his 10 years, and then become one.

  8. Communal Award Says:

    Unlike in India, USA has Google ‘inheritance tax’

  9. Ringer Says:

    Let us not forget that these rich industry chiefs in India are the 21st century Nawabs, and hence for them the dynastical succession is following the good old Indian tradition of minor rulers. Others may argue that this is the case elsewhere, but India has made it a culture.

    The Indian media never fails to disappoint me, and in this case as in others it is shown how gullible and deluded it could be when they paint quickly some one to be almost saintly. Those of my vintage would know how really honest the politicians were in the immediate aftermath of independence. Then the aspect “payback for their sacrifice” slowly sunk into them. The rest is history. Mr Murthy is simply following this tradition, and would respond in a similar way of his most admired Nehru when Indira Gandhi became the Congress President.

    What is slightly surprising is that this young man who has been educated in the West thanks to his father’s munificence, has not broken free of his father’s patronage. If this duo stop their lofty posturing from now on, and the Indian media shuts up to leave them as mere mortals in Indian tradition, this dynastical anointment would not go waste

  10. Vinay Says:

    Harkol is right. The kid is qualified to work in Infy, but certainly not as a VP. If he had been recruited as an executive assistant or something, it would have been all right. Certainly not as “Vice President”. That is a joke.

  11. harkol Says:

    Communal Award :

    There are ways around the ‘death tax’. Any self respecting Millionaire in USA will also know about trust fund route to bequeath money to his children.

    RC Sharma: The question is not on Rohan Murthy at all. It is how he is sought to make a high functionary without corporate experience. VP in large company is a role where you manage a business unit. To do so, you need to have exposure to business, to handling clients, employees etc.

    Parachuting someone like that sends a clear signal to more employees like ‘Mohandas Pai’ to leave Infy.

  12. Anonymous Guy Says:

    I have a feeling even in Western countries, parents would love to hoist their children to their position of success.

    It is the children who themselves want to rebel and beat their own path and dont want to blindly follow in their parents footsteps without experience life on their own terms.

    It is a matter of culture, we meek Indians are followers of bapucracy. That is the reason children mostly join their parents if their business is profitable, and that is the reason we arent known around the world as a innovative country.

  13. DHL Says:

    ‘Vice’ Precedent

  14. kris Says:

    Very interesting comments!!!!

    While talking about decisions made at a public company, the discussion invariably goes on comparing this with political dynasties, why? Is this particular to India? We have not heard such comparisons in the west.

    Is this particular to India and Indians? Is this anything to do with our identification with castes? Our media ready to tom-tom and glorify people like NRN, do you still remember his statements like, “we, the south Indian Brahmins at ….” Looks like we have an incurable disease called ‘caste’.

  15. harkol Says:

    Anonymous Guy:

    Consider facts of richest in each region. Things become clearer.

    Selfmade billionaires in different countries:

    Russia : 100%
    China/HK: 71%
    Mid-East: 58%
    US: 69%
    Europe: 40%
    India: 21%

    What does the above show? Inheritance percentages are fairly high in India, Europe and middle east, India being the worst.

    But, India isn’t the only country inheriting large wealth. Large wealth is inherited in all countries where there were robber barons.

    This is evident by the absence of such robber barons in Russia/China for almost two generations (thus no fortune to bequeath).

    In India large wealth was concentrated among ruling classes (Kings) and early businessmen (tata, Birla types). So, instance of inheritance is large.

    In US, there have been hereditary wealth too, with wealth running for generations – like in Kennedy family, Bush Family, Johnson family (Fidelity group), Astor Family, Hilton family, Vanderbilt family, morgan family and many more. Most of these wealth were built during the Gilded Age, by robber barons – who earned enough money to last for generations.

    So, Inheritance is not monopoly of India.

    Also,
    Caste = Class; This is proven by the fact that the kings from Shudra caste, didn’t identify themselves with their caste, instead declared themselves to be Kshatriyas.

    Caste system will breakdown in India, as class (wealth) becomes more important, that will be the identity, rather than caste.

  16. babuds Says:

    It is a peaceful dynastic succession afterall. Thank God, the son did not do an Auranzeb!

  17. M Says:

    Murthy’s vice has been finally exposed ! I looks like he was, like most others, a wolf but in sheep’s sweater.

  18. Gokulam 3rd Stage Says:

    I wonder what the guardians of corporate governance have to say to the Tatas and Birlas and Bajajs and Jindals and Kirloskars and Mahindras and Sundarams and Firodias and Ambanis and Munjals and…..

    Yella muchkondu profit tintaare.

    In any case, Infosys has an independent board, and it can decide whether getting Rohan Murthy in as a VP is a good idea or not. That is between the shareholders and their management. Why is it of public concern unless one is an Infy shareholder? If you aren’t one, don’t buy their stock because this obviously reflects poorly on the company!

    By the way, some of the claims in one of the linked articles is funny – one guy thinks this shows he will be the MD by Diwali! How do you get there from here?

  19. Anonymous Guy Says:

    One good thing in this: NRN will hopefully shut his holier-than-thou mouth up and stop preaching what he does not practice.

    As some Churumuri commentor used to say – ‘Hamam mein sab nange hain’

    And IT coolies rejoice – the rupee drop and stuck American immigration bill will keep labor arbitrage alive in the body shopping business for the foreseeable future!

  20. Doddi Buddi Says:

    Churumuri should start running #Murthy_Angadi series again! For all his pious intonations on professional management and shit, NRN has proven to be the same “Ashadaboothi” like the rest of the political class. Next, he will try and get nominated for RS. Life is complete and everyone is happy!

  21. harkol Says:

    Anonymous Guy:

    Labor Arbitrage was a game when US companies didn’t understand outsourcing well enough and US IT giants didn’t have India presence.

    Today, the narrative is different. Most big deals are hedged for currency fluctuation. i.e. if there is a huge swing then the rates are reworked.

    These started when Indian currency was gaining, and there was a risk to Indian operations. The idea was to ensure Indian contractual operations didn’t become un-viable if Rupee Gained beyond a point (at a point it seemed likely that INR will go upto Rs.35!)

    But, now the same technique will be used by US companies to gain. i.e. They will insist on lower rates, thus denying opportunity for large companies to gain.

    Only folks who may gain are those who haven’t hedged. But, they are all in smaller deals.

    >NRN will hopefully shut his holier-than-thou mouth

    I wonder what he has done that makes you think he behaves holier than thou. In many interviews he has told – what he says are his personal opinions, may not be applicable to others. And he has said many times his opinions don’t stay same for long durations. That he was a communist in his youth and a capitalist now. Even his wife had so many times said, especially in a Kannada interview I recall, that what they think/do is immaterial – as everyone is to themselves, and they can’t say what is right or wrong for others.

    The same goes for them. As long as they are doing more good than bad, I carry huge respect for them. I do agree it wasn’t ideal for him to parachute his son , but then I’d be holier-than-thou saying that because My father brought in my brother to his profession, ignoring many juniors he had! If I had a flourishing business, i’d bring in my daughter too!!

    So, what the heck!

  22. Anonymous Guy Says:

    DB, I would be surprised if your Rajya Sabha prediction does not come true. The next best thing if you cant be president.

  23. Veerendra Says:

    what if NRN’s son will be able to make a positive difference, then isn’t NRN decision to parachute his son not justified ?

  24. Anonymous Guy Says:

    Harkol,

    Instead of throwing some billionaire statistics, and concluding that caste and class are same by some ancient history which may or may not have been; here is a simple question for you:

    Give me this breakup:
    Among your relatives (take a pick, first circle of relatives or second or whatever you want):
    – How many married outside caste (and into whatever you call class)
    – How many married inside your caste

    Let us start with this simple data point. Then we can get into extrapolating from random data points based on billionaires (who make up what 0.0001% of the Indian population? Less?), or some ancient history which may as well be made up.

    Regarding the other stuff you have written about NRN: TLDR

    Let us talk about him again once the dust has settled on the dynasty building and he has back again making holier than thou statements about accepting a RS seat if a political party wants him to be an MP.

  25. DHL Says:

    My inference is “Quality Matters”, Quality of an Idea, or a product if it is necessary. High Quality Thought/Idea from anybody should be appreciated.

  26. harkol Says:

    Anonymous Guy:

    My contention was ‘caste’ system has nothing to do with inheritance patterns, and that a caste/class system is universal.

    It wasn’t that India doesn’t have a caste/class system.

    To answer your question, very few in my generation have married out of caste, perhaps 1 in 10. But, that’s changing rapidly in new generation. For eg. In Mangalore, inspite of having a favorable male/female ratio, girls don’t prefer to marry folks who aren’t in professions or jobs. This has led to people involved in unfavored agriculture/business etc. marrying out of caste/class, in fact out of state/linguistic boundaries.

    But, my limited point is inheritance is a reality in places where there is no caste system. And caste system in India is nothing but a variation of class system of other countries.

    And Billionaire data is an indicative of social attitude. It is just a sample, where studies have been done. But, if you went further down the likely scenario is bound to be the same. I have been to so many countries that I know first hand that each country has its own history & social evil.

    The difference with USA is just this – US has a large ‘middle class’ (white collar) & ‘working class’ (Blue collar or lower middle class) which comprises of 65% of US society.

    Thus the society seems egalitarian, because people seem to get married randomly. But, the reality is that the upper class (rich 1%) within USA largely marry within their social circle, and it is not very common for middle class to marry ‘working poor’ class.

    Same holds good for UK. A study says “those born between 1976 and 1981, 56% married into the same class, with a far smaller proportion (16%) marrying up”. Just two generation back, a King had to abdicate throne, because he wanted to marry a American commoner (uncle of current queen)!

    Let us not fool ourselves to think that we are unique in social evils.

    My only plea is – let us not denigrate an individual who has done much good to society, even if he has a bit of weakness for welfare of his own children. Premji, Murthy are still paragons of virtue in a society like India, let us not loose sight of that.

  27. shiv Says:

    NRN has reached a stage where he can make his own rules.I don’t agree with him on his cong(i) leanings ,, I also found him to be easily browbeaten by the likes of DeveGowda but then what he does at Infosys is his own business.If the employees or board of directors don’t agree, they can walk out.The point the readers should ask is did NRN swindle infosys, did he swindle money from bankers as all our top industrialists do, did he corrupt the bureaucracy / politician so that he pockets money/contracts,, did he destroy competitors as reliance has done?So what is this article about? I always felt the so called “learned Indians” are the most confused specimens not knowing who is a crook who is a good guy!! Don’t tarnish NRN with the same brush as ambanis,mallayas or tatas or ruias or any of the so called industrialists.

  28. Mallika Says:

    All it proves is that NRN is a “HUMAN” and a “FATHER”… and all those long-winded speeches, were just that – Speeches!!!

    Rohan has won the genetic lottery. Infosys in one hand, TVS in another…

  29. shiv Says:

    Anonymous Guy @4.12am – So Mr simple point,, you have been brain washed by convent education or by people who have been brain washed by alien ideas like leftism.Caste system is a unique indian identity came about god knows when but then this social fabric became insular due to long period living under “foreign” rule first by mohammedans and later by the white skins for.700 years If we look at the system, it has 4 elements with the 5th as exclusionist and this system runs from kashmir to kanyakumari.Now that we are a free nation , more and more people are questioning the system and the ills of untouchability which is the most important evil.Rightly so.It is not correct to brush away that “caste” per se is evil,,I think human beings have the unique thought process of seperating each other into small groups discriminating the outsider.It is the defective gene in all of us,,humans with all the modern education is still a defective specimen, a look at our morning papers will give us many examples.What the caste system has done to Indian society is that it has brought in a safety net for a group of people within each caste to lean on each other especially the weak and poor.Without this safety net, many would have been even more impoverished.Another thing is the unique success stories of places like Ludhiana,Surat,Coimbatore,coorg,kolhapur,tirupur or the vast agricultural/fishing industry would not have come about without the “caste” system.Infact in financial world “caste” system is the most effective/efficient user of capital,,more bang for a lesser buck.So what we need is to understand the good from the evil,I believe in caste system – of learned people seeking knowledge as the brahmins,the ones seeking wealth through setting up mini industries/enterprises as the Vysyas,the protector of our borders/internal law and order,administer the country as the khsatriyas and the grower of abundant food through agriculture and fishing as the shudras,, each one as important as other ,, none any inferior in stature,,each as strong as the other.well if you guys wonder what happens to harijans, they too will merge into one of these 4.If you look around the world, these 4 divisions are already there, many marry within this group,,they are more comfortable to seek marital associations within this group.Finally if you look at the current situation, some of the shudras have become brahmins becoming scientists/teachers/researchers,same with the khastriyas or harijans where as many so called “brahmins” have become vysyas sadly very few have become shudras or kshatriyas ( may be hard physical work is anathema for them).If we put all our energies into education and skill development, the “caste” system will be highly beneficial to Indian society not as it exists in the current decadent form.

  30. Doddi Buddi Says:

    NRN is “Brahmin” Devegowda!

  31. Gaby Says:

    Harkol your sophistry is highly entertaining as usual.
    Shiv, instead of blaming proselytising convent schools and leftist leanings, think about the possibility that some of the anguish coming from personal experience of the caste system whose murky origins you applaud.

  32. Emptymind Says:

    shiv.
    According to Information theory, the Entropy (measure of disorder) of joint system is less or equal to “sum of the individual entropies”. the entropy generated by caste system is function of Subadditivity. ie. “joint entropy” (or union of entropy)is less than “sum of individual entropy”. It will be equal only when individual entropy is statistically independent with each other. how can be 4 varnas be independant with each other? by forming 4 countries? Think twice before giving dumb answers to serious issues.

  33. harkol Says:

    Gaby:
    >Harkol your sophistry is highly entertaining as usual.

    And your gratuitous comments are sardonic – as usual.

  34. Shemej Says:

    “What the caste system has done to Indian society is that it has brought in a safety net for a group of people within each caste to lean on each other especially the weak and poor.”

    @#*!+… I am a teetotaller. But why I feel inebriated? It appears the world and churumuri are standing upside down. Any problem with me?

  35. shiv Says:

    “Shiv, instead of blaming proselytising convent schools and leftist leanings, think about the possibility that some of the anguish coming from personal experience of the caste system whose murky origins you applaud.” – No I don’t applaud, you must read in entirety what I have written,,ultimately human race form their own closed interest group excluding others,,it is the defective gene in us which will not allow us to live harmoniously in a society with different viewpoints, believers/non believers,ideologies,languages.The moment our existence is threatened, we form a closed group.casteism degenerated due to foreign occupation,,it is a fact.Modern day equivalents are hindu/muslim clashes,inter state border disputes, language disputes like in belgaum, inter state river water sharing.You can pooh pooh all these as self interest but then casteism is also self interest.

  36. shiv Says:

    “@#*!+… I am a teetotaller. But why I feel inebriated?” -If you are a teetotaller, how do you know inebriation?This is the kind of idiocy so called “educated” indians are going around with.The real stalwarts India had at the time of independence were learned and knowledgeable, not gas bags like your kind populated massively in cong(i).

  37. harkol Says:

    Shiv:

    What you are trying to say above is called ‘pack behaviour’.

    A lot of animal species exhibit pack behaviour. Like dogs, wolves, lions, cows/buffaloes, monkeys etc. Pack behaviour is the foundation of social behaviour and ‘societies’. Most animals that have packs (or prides) display a hierarchy within their group, and also fight with other groups for dominance and territory.

    Human beings have exhibited pack behaviour all thru their existence in history. In fact, humans exhibit even worser traits than most other packs. Modern Homo Sapiens fought with earlier homonids for territory and ensured their elimination.

    And I totally agree with you when you say the caste system is nothing but another grouping system, that displays similar pack behaviour. This was at a time about self-preservation, which later turned in to a dogma.

    Folks who can’t understand this have no problem in associating themselves with various other groups – like linguistic, regional, religious, racial, national groupings for combined welfare. All the above behaviours are in reality springs from pack-behaviour.

    As humans if we really want to overcome the pack-behaviour, then we’d need to become what Kuvempu called “Vishwa Manava”. He said, every child at birth is ‘universal man’, but becomes a ‘petty man’ as adult, with all prejudices of their elders. He said the purpose of education should be to make the man ‘universal’ again. He propounded his concept of universal man very will in his poem “Oh Nanna Chetana”.

    But, truly – Which education makes a man universal? We are still part of our own packs (silos). – Families, relations, Regions, Races, Languages, Nations etc.

    So, who ever is not comprehending/ridiculing what you are saying, are only fooling themselves.

    We are all part of a pack, with our own prejudices – whether we like it or not.

  38. shiv Says:

    “Which education makes a man universal? We are still part of our own packs (silos).” – Plenty in our own Bhagavath gita and the upanishads,or if one chooses not to read them , keep questioning oneself whether we are fair to people around us,that alone will be a source of less strife.

  39. mysticresearcher Says:

    Rohan Murthy portfolio says he an post graduate from Harvard, Do you know how difficult is it to get a seat in World Top 5 universities, also these World Top 5 universities also have management seats.

    Just because he into Harvard (through paid seat:hidden) it does not and cannot make him among the best.

  40. harkol Says:

    mysticresearcher:

    You are right. With obscene money, it is possible to get to top 5 universities. These are called ‘development admits’, an US equivalent of ‘payment seats’ in India!!

    However, it is not possible to get scholarship or fellowships that easily. Not in MIT, not in Harvard. To be a harvard fellow (equivalent to a Phd admit) is an honor in itself. Only exceptional folks make it.

    So, let us not undermine Rohan’s achievements just because he was privileged. It seems like a combination of privilege and hard work.

  41. marriage Says:

    He is married to the heiress of the TVS group

  42. Communal Award Says:

    Google ‘Govt must NATIONALIZE Infosys’.

  43. Vinay Says:

    Communal Award:

    Thanks, no one is interested in Googling such shit. People who utter words like “nationalization” need to be shot in the kneecaps. Whoever suggested nationalization of Infosys needs to have his skull cracked.

  44. Narayan Says:

    Vinay,

    When Karnataka was getting a raw deal from center and when some questioned India’s federal structure and suggested independent states, you showed extreme nationalism then and had used similar language calling them insane, but on the contrary when someone suggests nationalization of Infy, you want them shot????. Where does your loyalties lie? With India? Infy? Karnataka??

  45. Vinay Says:

    Narayan:

    Spare me the bullshit of “Karnataka getting a raw deal”. Karnataka has had it pretty good. I am a Bangalorean, and Bangalore has had a pretty good deal from the very beginning. Every central government establishment worth its name had a presence in Bangalore. The same holds for Karnataka – it has neither got a bad deal nor a great deal. So again, spare me the bullshit about Karnataka getting a “raw deal”. I have looked at all the data, and your conclusion stinks worse than a pile of fetid hyena dung.

    Do you know the difference between “nationalism” and “nationalization”? Before engaging in an online debate, you ought to do others the courtesy of educating yourself on basic terminology.

    Yes, I am a nationalist, and a staunch one at that. My loyalties lie with India. And given a choice, I would want growth and prosperity to come to Bangalore before it comes to Lukhnow or Hubli or Guwahati. There is no contradiction here, I hope you can understand that. Bangalore’s prosperity and development is part and parcel of India’s growth and development. I identify with Bangalore and India – these two entities form the foremost identity for me.

    People who use terms like “nationalization” are poisonous socialist scum, who have kept the entire country shackled and caged for decades. People who still use such terminology need to be shot in the kneecaps, yes.

    Anyway, a person who asks questions about “Karnataka versus India” ought not to be taken seriously.

  46. harkol Says:

    Narayan:

    Nationalization is a sure fire way of killing a business or industry. There is no industry that govt. runs well and Govt. has no business running the industry.

    State, Federal structure etc. are not relevant in knowing that govt’s are incompetent to run businesses.

  47. Mysore Peshva Says:

    Vinay,

    Alas, your uncouth, violent and ad-hominem language adds no credibility to your argument!

  48. Narayan Says:

    Vinay,

    FYI, There is no conclusion from my side here. Just wanted some clarity regarding your posts earlier and Thanks for teaching me English, now I know where your arrogance stems from. I mentioned your “Extreme Nationalism” (nationalism is okay but servile nationalism at the cost of one’s survival is suicidal, or there is some hidden agenda here).

    Here is your post to refresh your memory regarding Cauvery Tribunal award.
    “Of course, idiots like ******* above think that the state will be better off outside the Indian union. Frankly, such idiocy surprises me. Silly people, don’t know what they are talking about.”

    So, if a person thinks differently than you, then he is an Idiot. What makes you think it can’t be better off outside?? Did you know Mysore state was the most prosperous state before independence. Any opinion other than yours, always surprises you. You are the only “enlightened” person here, rest are silly. You talk of nationalism but still selfishly want everything for Bengaluru (where is the nationalism???). That sums up your selfish mindset.

    When a private company is being manipulated to suit an individual, nationalization (state/country/national takeover) as an option is discussed keeping in mind the interest of the people, your vitriol starts.

    If one expresses his disappointment time and again for the stepmotherly treatment with the present Federal system, and thinks of coming out of the federation, again vitriol.

    In case of Infy corruption, Federation has no role, because it becomes Socialism for you, but with water dispute corruption, federation is paramount. Now, I hope you understood the interrelationship between nationalism/nationalization in this context and how your posts are self contradictory, so enough of your bullshit here.

    PS: I am not advocating either nationalism or nationalization in both above cases, just pointing out your contradictions.

  49. Vinay Says:

    Narayan:

    No, you still don’t make any sense.

    Anyone who suggests things like nationalization is a poisonous socialist. There is no question of opinions here. I am perfectly fine with diverse opinions, but there is no place for poisonous socialism and asinine stuff like “nationalization”.

    There is no contradiction in my thinking. I am a nationalist and want India to develop, but if there is an X amount of money to be spent, I would prefer that money to be spent on Bangalore rather than other parts of India. You see a contradiction here because you see Bangalore and India as separate and distinct entities. In reality there is no divergence between Bangalore’s development and India’s development. You have not proved any “contradiction” in my posts.

    The very concept of nationalization as a solution to the problems within a private company is the talk of a scummy mind. I have a serious aversion to socialists. They have shackled India’s rise and kept us at the bottom for decades, and now when such people rear their ugly heads occasionally, the urge to beat their heads back into stinking hole where they popped out from, is very strong indeed.

    Infy is a private entity, and any comparisons with river sharing are stupid. The company will survive or perish, as the case may be. The state can keep its stinking hands off Infy, or any other company for that matter. You are free to refuse to work for Infy, and prevent others from working for Infy, but when you start asking for the state to take over Infy, you become a poisonous socialist and an enemy of the country’s progress and well-being.

  50. Narayan Says:

    Vinay,

    You are entitled to your aversion/opinion, be it capitalism or socialism. But when there is an opinion which is not concurrent with your views, why do you become nasty, go ballistic and undermine the person rather than having a healthy debate. My point here is not about socialism being poisonous or capitalism being the elixir. It is about consistency.

    As you are saying “state should keep its STINKING hand off Infy”.

    State becomes a “stinker” in case of Infy, but the same state is paramount when it comes to water dispute. Where do you stand?

    In reality there is no divergence between Bangalore’s development and India’s development. You have not proved any “contradiction” in my posts.

    Bengaluru development = Development of UP, Bihar, Jharkand, Rest of Karnataka, etc, is it? Bengaluru development may create a few jobs, but it definitely is not development in whole. It is an island of prosperity in the midst of poverty. This is what is called unscientific/lopsided/uneven/skewed development. When development is lopsided, there is lot of heartburn which leads to radicalization which in turn leads to extremism.

    Then again I see one more contradiction, you want Money for Benglure but not Water, why?? Money will quench your thirst??

  51. Doddi Buddi Says:

    I want Vinay to rethink his position & also allow for prosperity in places like Hubli, Mangalore and other cities in Karnataka. I am covering my kneecaps with Kevlar and wearing a helmet:)

    I am not a socialist but unbridled prosperity in one place leads to corruption! Best to distribute the largess among other cities in Karnataka. But it bothers me that both Infy & Wipro were becoming real estate companies a few years ago having gobbled land at throwaway prices due to a quid pro quo act by the then Socialist CM, Somnalli Kitta! What is Vinay’s take on this? He should understand that a fair market–which he espouses vigorously–would not have allowed his pet Infy to accumulate so much land! So in a way Infy has the cake and eating it. Also, NRN has been controlling Infy in his own way without worrying too much about corporate governance.

  52. Vinay Says:

    Doddi Buddi:

    Of course I want prosperity everywhere. In the ideal world, I would wish for prosperity and growth to come not only to Hubli, Mangalore, etc. but also to UP and Bihar and Orissa. The latter is long overdue, and will solve the problem of inter-state migration and the resultant tensions. But isn’t it natural to ask for development and prosperity in the place where one stays? I will ask for good infra and good quality of life in Bangalore, since that is what affects me and Bangalore is the city I identify with.

    As regards Infosys and land parcels – I have maintained from the very beginning, that every company, Infy included, ought to purchase lands at market rates. For an IT establishment, there is really no need to have acres of land. A skyscraper on MG road or KH road will do just fine. If Infy wanted acres of land for whatever reason, they should have bought it at market rates. This has been my stand from the beginning.

    But we should all put down these “nationalization wallahs” with full force. These socialist thoughts need to be suppressed as soon as they rear their ugly head. Talk of nationalization, socialism, etc. is poisonous and should not be encouraged in any way.

  53. Nastika Says:

    Some heated exchanges here.

    @Narayan,
    1) Could tell why Infy must be nationalized?
    2) Who all will profit from nationalization?
    3) Who all will lose from nationalization?
    4) What different CM or PM will do better than NRN, being the new boss at Infy?

    ~*~

  54. Vinay Says:

    Narayan:

    You asked me where my “loyalties” lie, so I responded to your question. “Bangalore and India” is the answer. As I have mentioned in my previous comment, if I look at the whole nation from a lofty perch, of course I want every part of the country to develop. But as a Bangalorean, I will demand development for Bangalore. That is my job. People in Bihar will have to demand development and accountability from their own rulers. People in Hubli will demand development and infrastructure for their city. People in HD Kote will demand development for their own village. They will have their own village-specific issues.

    Now what is wrong with me, a Bangalorean, asking for development in Bangalore? Am I the CM of the state or the PM of the nation? Somehow it is considered perfectly normal for “pooooor formers” to demand X, Y or Z. But why can a common Bangalorean, middle-class city dweller not do that? I have my own requirements of good roads, clean air, good transit systems, etc. I will continue to demand those things. If I become the CM or PM tomorrow, then you can question me about “equitable and well-distributed development”.

    I don’t know why you are trying to compare nationalization of private companies with river water sharing. What is the connection, really? The state has certain jobs and duties, and then there are certain areas which the state has no business being in. Privately-run businesses are an example of an area where the state has nothing to do apart from ensuring that the business runs in a legal, fair and safe manner. On the other hand, the state is “paramount” (in your own words) when it comes to things like the police and judiciary and yes, river water sharing. Do you want private police forces? Private courts? Private control of rivers? It makes no sense, does it?

    Of course the state is “paramount” in some cases, and has no business in some others. I am sorry that I had to type out such a detailed explanation – one would have thought it would be obvious. This childish line of questioning about “contradictions in my views”, needs to stop.

    Finally – there is no scope for healthy debate with Indian pseudo-socialists. Being nasty and going ballistic with them is the only way forward. These Indian pseudo-socialists are scum of the earth. A good and reasoned discussion is possible with many kinds of people, but not with socialists who advocate nationalization.

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