CHURUMURI POLL: Should RSS be banned again?

The release of audio tapes and transcripts of four interviews conducted by a journalist of the monthly magazine, The Caravan, which show the terror-attack accused Swami Aseemanand in conversation with the RSS sarsanghchalak Mohan Bhagwat in 2005, virtually implicating him in targetting civilians, once again show the twice-banned “national voluntary organisation” in disgraceful light.

“In the last two interviews, Aseemanand repeated that his terrorist acts were sanctioned by the highest levels of the RSS—all the way up to Mohan Bhagwat, the current RSS chief, who was the organisation’s general secretary at the time,” reads a press release. “It is very important that it be done. But you should not link it to the Sangh.”

While BJP and RSS spokespersons have questioned the veracity of the tapes and the ethicality of the journalist managing to enter the jail where Assemanand is lodged to record the interviews, they do not detract from the elephant in the room: the alleged involvement of RSS functionaries in attacks of terrorism, raising the spectre of “Saffron Terror” with the intent of political mobilisation.

For some the tapes will only confirm their worst fears: that the RSS, which was banned (by then home minister Vallabhbhai Patel, no less) after the assassination of Mahatma Gandhi in 1948 and the demolition of the Babri masjid in 1992, is upto no good. That such an organisation should be playing a quite conspicuous role in shaping the future and fortunes of BJP in circa 2014 will please them even less.

Many others, though, will suspect the timing of the release of the tapes on the eve of a general election, and the rather candid admissions of a terror-accused who over the last three years seems to have somehow forgot to spill the beans to his custodians in jail and interrogators in court.

Obviously, the charges are still a long way from being proved. But if they are, on the strength of mounting evidence—Colonel Shrikant Purohit, Sadhvi Pragya Singh, Indresh Kumar—should the RSS be banned a third time? And if Narendra Modi, whose installation as the BJP’s  “prime ministerial candidate” was one of the RSS’s biggest successes last year, does end up becoming PM, will his government have the guts or the objectivity to take such a tough call?

Also read: Should the RSS be banned—part I?

Will an RSS-run BJP be more vicious in future?

How Karnataka is becoming Gujarat of South

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22 Responses to “CHURUMURI POLL: Should RSS be banned again?”

  1. harkol Says:

    RSS ban won’t stand the test of legal scrutiny.

    Otherwise, it is a good idea to ban all private militia of any kind. All vanara senas, islamic lashkars, Maoist rebels & Criminal underground mafia challenge the monopoly of the state on coercive powers. No civilized nation should tolerate that. Any group that attacks citizens, shops, couple, people are effectively a militant group and they should be banned.

    The trouble is – Govt. is never able to prove a particular group ‘did it’. That’s where they get off.

  2. Not A Witty Nick Says:

    Yes, please. They too can get rid of all the fluff when they move underground.

  3. R Prasad Says:

    Certainly ban RSS on the basis of interviews of a single person without corroborative evidence. On the other pseudo secularist political parties and Congress do not have the guts to ban IM and IM’s student wings in spite of having mountains of evidence! Jai Pakistanis!

  4. Mysore Peshva Says:

    An organization may be lawfully banned only if terrorism is an inherent or necessary instrument of its ideology. The RSS does not qualify for a ban — unlike, say, the CPI-ML or LET. A ban cannot be a lawful response to any of its members plotting or committing crimes, although those members can be arrested and prosecuted. Your question of banning seems to be based in Shri. Digvijay Singh’s illogical talking points!

  5. RR Says:

    Reblogged this on Rego's Media Page.

  6. venukmwpb Says:

    In spite of all the stunning evidences here, I have deep reservations against the politics of banning organizations for two reasons:
    1.Freedom of association and freedom of speech/ expression are not to be compromised in any functioning ,real democracy.
    2.Banning an organization reduces the whole problem as one to be solved for once and for all by exclusive focus on just one fascist outfit and all the covert operatives and nodules from outside the organization, including that of the state agencies and possible international players are to be scot-free. .
    So, I vote against banning the RSS!
    Rather let’s try for a democratic secular socialist future in which the RSS chadi boys/old men will rather be considered as brain-dead lot or at best as dimwits deserving special care and empathy of the society in order to be reformed as normal citizens.

  7. Iqbal Singh Says:

    Members of RSS are true nationalists. India belongs to them as much as it belongs to others. Indian National Congress, Moslem League and British are responsible for partition of India and killing of millions of innocent Indians on either side of border. The problem has remained unresolved as yet.

    INC has permanently maligned the basic fabric of communal harmony of this great nation by way of n kinds of reservations.

    You so called secularists and intellectual groups have no right to pass such comments on RSS or any other such groups.

    Nehru never talked of plebiscite on partition of India. It was done unilaterally by three culprits. However, Nehru did not hesitate to take J&K to UN which Patel didn’t approve.

    What is wrong if RSS didn’t like partition of this country.

    All divisions in history had consequences and some had to pay the price, however important the person was considered to be.

    Would you call people of Andhra opposing division of Andhra anti nationalists.

    Stop making misplaced historical facts basis for your comments.

  8. Deepak Says:

    Sadhvi Pragya is in jail for years and Govt can’t even file a chargesheet. She is rotting in jail without any charges against her and Lallu and Sanjay Dutt who are convicted are roaming free. That’s the Italian mafia’s India for you. And the Italians now want to ban RSS hoping that it will somehow prevent Modi from gaining power. And paid media of course, is loyally singing in chorus with the Mafia queen. God bless you all. Won’t be long before sanity returns to this nation, just a couple of months away!!

  9. Houdu Swamy Says:

    Yes, its high time. India need organizations like LeT, Jaish, etc to protect our culture and make us pride. We Hindus deserve it. Because always these kind of interviews, doubts, questions are raised by Hindus only, and NOT ever by religion people. We Hindus were the slaves of Muslims and Xians for almost 1000 years now.
    Really, it’s the right time.

    I wish you also publish an article on, should Yogesh Dhundi be given Jnanapeetha award now?!

  10. Shemej Says:

    Harkol commented:
    “Otherwise, it is a good idea to ban all private militia of any kind. All vanara senas, islamic lashkars, Maoist rebels & Criminal underground mafia challenge the monopoly of the state on coercive powers. No civilized nation should tolerate that. Any group that attacks citizens, shops, couple, people are effectively a militant group and they should be banned.”

    Agree completely. RSS, BJP, SDPI, Jamaat e Islami, CPI(Maoist) all these parties should be banned. But if they are banned, it should not be lifted afterwards. Secondly, RSS would always work by floating another organisation. Any such organization should also should be banned.

    It is not a joke. You either support India or work with anti nationals.

    But if the government is not ready to impose the ban, by arresting the top leaders of all these groups and put them behind bars for half a century, this ban is going to be a joke. It will only give sympathy to the leaders of these organizations. It is another joke that govt has banned CPI(Maoists) but refuse to ban RSS and Jamaat E islami. We all know that CPI(Maosists) are working with Dravidian language speaking Advivasi sections and the govts are headed by upper caste leaders who speak Aryan Languages (many of them are from landlord families who brutalize Dalits and Adivasis. Raman Singh govt inserted stone inside the genitals of an Adivasi teacher who is also targetted by Maoists. And psycholoigsts from NIMHANS advised her not to get angry, but to calm down. Thup!…. Maoists are anyway not living in cities, they have nothing to lose. Indian police would never go to Triban villages. Does this ban help Maoists or strengthen it?

    In this context, I would say, such bans wont be effective. If any govt ban RSS, BJP, Jamaat E Islami etc, then their top leaders should be put to trail and sentenced to life term first. (I dont support death sentence like what they did to Bangladesh Islamist leaders and I dont support a trial by foreign controlled groups like in the case of Slobodan Milosevic. ). But why the leaders of RSS and BJP are NOT PUT ON TRIAL for the killings, riots and rapes when other groups are charged and trialed by Indian State?

    However, I disagree with this comment by Harkol
    “RSS ban won’t stand the test of legal scrutiny.”

    There are enough evidences against RSS, BJP and SDPI and other groups. RSS was banned earlier. And even without government banning them there is a strong possibility that court may ban such organizations when their role is proved later. It is legally possible. But, I dont think Congress can impose such a ban. Many congress leaders are RSS leaders too. The 1984 Delhi riot was conducted by Congress and RSS jointly. People like Banwarilal Purohit conducted Shila Pooja for Ram Mandir while he was in Congress (later joined BJP. Where he is now?). RSS and BJP openly justify P. Chidambaram, who is an RSS proxi inside Congress. Former president R. Venkat Raman sympathised with Babri Masjid demolition. How can Congress effectively implement ban?

    See what I posted earlier- (27 Aug 2013) — https://churumuri.wordpress.com/2013/08/21/raksha-bandhan-in-the-hindu-saffron-brotherhood/

    I have commented earlier at this thread (6 Sept 2013) –

    https://churumuri.wordpress.com/2013/09/05/poll-do-you-believe-narendra-modis-pm-claim/

    And quoted this link earlier which shows who masterminded Muzaffer Nagar communal riots and rapes.
    http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/the-mystery-of-kawwal-were-muzaffarnagar-riots-based-on-distortion-of-facts-418666

    I am quoting the following para from a business news paper. Does anyone expect a business magazine to twist facts? No ordinary voters would read a business magazine. They may publish paid news related to company matters. Why should business magazine publish paid news on matters like rapes during communal riots?

    Please read–
    “Medical test conducted on five woman confirmed that three of them were gang-raped during the last month’s violence in Muzaffarnagar, police said today. ”
    Source:
    http://www.business-standard.com/article/pti-stories/medical-test-confirms-3-cases-of-gang-rape-in-muzaffarnagar-113101200373_1.html

    And let me give one more link –

    “Many victims reveal that they had to take help from NGOs to lodge complaints. While only six cases of rape have been registered, activists say there are other victims who have not spoken out, fearing stigma and reprisal. According to Shabnam Hashmi, founder, Act Now for Harmony and Democracy (ANHAD), which is helping the victims fight their cases, “Many contacted us initially, but were either forced to withdraw or backed out, while a few disappeared from the camps when we tried to visit them later.”

    In one of the cases, the victim was even mistreated and ridiculed by the doctors appointed for medical examination. “They laughed and said: ‘Who will rape you? Don’t Jats have wives in their homes?'” Saba told HT.”

    http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/muzaffarnagaraftermath/muzaffarnagar-s-gang-rape-victims-sentenced-to-silence/article1-1159173.aspx

    On several occasions, I tried to post this comment but failed. Let the editor consider this point. Is justifying rape a crime? What does the law state, if found some one justifying a rape?

    I dont want to comment further. Please go through what is published in various internet forums, and how BJP supporters (including women) justifying Muzaffar Nagar riots.

    This is what is BJP leader Hukum Singh’s own words:
    “The BJP’s Hukum Singh addressed that rally. He says the crowd had two demands – to chant Hindutva slogans, and that he confirm his party’s candidate for Prime Minister will be Narendra Modi, ..”

    So, Muzaffar Nagar riot was conducted to help Narendra Modi. Later these local BJP leaders were garlanded by BJP on a stage where Modi spoke a little later (to avoid possiblity of court banning him, he didnt publicly share the stage)

    There are any number of reports clearly showing how BJP -RSS organized communal riot in MuzaffarNagar to win Jat votes. Amit sha was made in charge of Uttar Pradesh and their strategy is to get maximum seats from Uttar Pradesh, Bihar. As part of their strategy, they organized this communal riots and brutal rapes of innocent women and their online volunteers glorify communal riots to polarize society to get maximum votes.

    As a nation where are we heading for? I had a chance to discuss this with a prominent woman senior citizen (from Karnataka) who was supporting Narendra Modi till then. When I narrated this communal riot and rapes, she didnt even hear about rape case. She was shocked when I showed the news of medical reports. Though she was confused why Media was shying away from reporting this, she didnt completely disagree with my opinion that, media, especially English media do not want to lose the urban middleclass readership. Of course, it was not her own words, however, she didnt reject my opinion.

    Instead of asking to ban RSS, what the media needs to do is to expose such incidents. Though personally, I have a lot of respect for Churumuri, Asian age, Frontline and Outlook editors (Vinod Mehta), I think, people of this country do not like the advise of media editors. (who can tolerate the kind of intellectual level of a prominent screaming woman news reader of CNN-IBN?). The media has the responsibility to report such facts and allow the people of this country to reach their own conclusion. There could be a minority (including women) who supports Riots and Rapes organised my Amitsha, Narendra Modi and their agents. But majority of the people, especially,89% of the members of majority community in India are peace loving.

    Second point is this– Why this discussion of banning Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh only now, when India is going for a national election? My question is, why the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh was not banned earlier itself? Or in other words, why the ban against Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh lifted? After that killed Mahatma Gandhi and after Babri Masjid demolition?

    If a government is keep banning an organization every two weeks and then lift the ban every second saturday, what purpose it serves?

    The biggest curse of India is Manmohan Singh. It is his policies that is creating price rise in India. Wikileaks clearly shows, he was acting on behalf of USA masters. (BJP is accusing Manmohansingh as a puppet in the hands of Soniagandhi to hide the fact that, both BJP and Congress are acting according to the instructions of USA, Ambani and Corporate interests.). As long as Congress dont remove people like Manmohan Singh, Murali Deora, Veerappa Moily, Kapil Sibal, P.Chidambaram et al a section of Indian urban middleclass who do not have better analytical abilities and those who lack better IQ would always imagine that BJP can bring more business to India and provide more job opportunities etc. In any society, it is only the 10% of thinking people who take right decisions and influence the rest of the mobs. When Mani Shankar Iyer tried to provide Cooking gast for less thatn 1.5 Dollar, this Manmohan Singh kicked him out of Petroleum ministry. When Jaipal Reddy was about to impose fine on Mukesh Ambani, he was humilated by Manmohan Singh. India has intelligent politicians like Mani Shankar iyer, Jaipal Reddy, Jairam Ramesh, Yogendra Yadav, AB Bardhan, Prashant Bhushan, Prosenjit Bose, Prakash Karat, Arvind Kejriwal, Jayprakash Narayan (not to be mistaken with JP), Puttannaiah, GN Nagaraj, and so many others. But in present day India, their voice is not heard, because the Corporate media suppress them.

  11. asha Says:

    Churmuri..please do your homework. Aseemanand’s lawyer has issued a categorical statement that this interview did not take place. Moreover no jail authority will allow such a lengthy interview (9 hrs) to be conducted in the jail premises. You seem to be hitting a new low with each passing day. How about some reporting on the Augusta Westland helicopter scam which directly involves SoniaG..do you have the requisite testicular fortitude to do this? How about expose on the election of P Chidambaram which is still being heard by the SC, while he goes around making laws..tomorrow if the SC rules his election is invalid, what happens to all the laws passed by him. Get a life churmuri..it is high time.

  12. harkol Says:

    Mysore Peshva :

    You bring out an interesting point.

    AFAIK, To ban an organization the govt. needs to use Unlawful activities act.

    Two of three criteria described in the act are

    – which disclaims, questions, disrupts or is intended to disrupt the sovereignty and territorial integrity of India
    – which causes or is intended to cause disaffection against India.

    However, there may be a very tenuous argument to make against RSS on above causes.

    But, there has to be a more clearly detailed law that allows for stringent punishment & banning of any organization where the leaders make hate speech (that is meant to create violence), directly incite violence (like asking supporters to tear down toll plaza). We also need to ban organizations, where large section of its members indulge in violent activities – like riots or even attacking govt. or private properties, publications, institutions.

    We can’t go on tolerating attacks & violence in the name of religion, castes, languages, regions or any other parochial one sided actions, that undermine the definition of ‘Sovereignty’ of India.

    The foundation of “Sovereignty” is that – the coercive powers within a territory is the exclusive monopoly of the state – is compromised, every time a stone throwing gang can get a movie banned.

    Planting bombs is not the only kind of terror, though that’s what Abhinav Bharat, SIMI & IM are accused of doing.

    What Shivsena, MNS, ML, MIM, Ram Sene, KRV, VHP etc. do is also terror. A violent enforcement of their will through coercion (terror) thus undermining the Sovereignty of the state.

    We need civilized protest mechanism – not terror tactics. By that token there are very few organizations, or political parties that will go unscathed.

    But, we need to begin, and start docking these organizations to show law can bite.

  13. Anon Says:

    @Houduswamy

    “We Hindus were the slaves of Muslims and Xians for almost 1000 years now.” we still are slaves. Best e.g, this blog…

  14. Mithila Says:

    Its the same outfit that was involved in the assassination of the greatest human being of our times.Now once again its the same rotten,hydra-headed ideology that stands exposed.
    History reminds us the lead role played by Sardar Vallabhai Patel in banning RSS for its complicity in the Gandhi assasination.
    RSS hatred for the Congress is a well known historical fact. But see the irony of RSS silently supporting Narendra Modi trying to usurp Congress stalwart Sardar Patel’s legacy. The saffron parivar will take any shape to execute its fascist agenda.
    So should we ban RSS?
    I think no time should be lost in banning RSS and also other fundamentalist organisations, all experts in causing cancerous damage to the body politic.

  15. Shemej Says:

    Here is what Madan Mohan Modi an RSS sympathiser, who is also uncle of an Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh pracharak has to narrate a sad story. Unclle Madan Mohan Modi doesnt reveal who actually killed his nephew.

    We know that Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh or RSS is a patriotic organization which is doing so many good things for this society. If that can be believed this RSS pracharak has done so much invaluable service to this Nation. But why the police is not arresting the murderers of this RSS pracharak. Obviously India’s socialists and Leftists must have some role in killing this patriotic RSS pracharak–

    The family of murdered RSS pracharak Sunil Joshi,……, has claimed he was killed by his “own men”. Joshi’s uncle, Madan Mohan Modi, refuses to spell out the obvious and” …. “It seems there was some kind of pressure on the investigating agencies,” Modi says.

    Within minutes of (murdered RSS activist) Joshi’s murder, his four roommates disappeared, never to be seen again.

    Nothing is known about them except their names – Mohan, Raj, Ustaad and Ghanshyam – and the police, of course, never bothered to find out.

    …..
    “We don’t know why but no policeman dares to touch the file of Sunil Joshi’s murder,” Sikarwar says.”

    http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/rss-pracharak-joshi-was-killed-by-his-own-men-family/1/105883.html

    I request the intelligent, patriotic BJP fans in Churumuri to find out why this patriotic RSS pracharak was killed. And who killed him and why?

    What role the other Modi, that is, Narendra Modi played in this whole episode. Aseemanadjee now reveals that Narendra Modi used to personally encourage Aseemanadjee to do what ever he did in Gujarat (to attack Christian Churches). In the recorded interview, Aseemanadjee says Narendra Modi told him he is soon going to become the Chief Minister of Gujarat by replacing Keshubhai Patel.

    Very good. People should be like this.

    (Aseemanadjee didnt reveal this TOP SECRET to National Investigating Agency also. He was only protecting his parent organisation. But the lady who interviewed Aseemanandji over two years got his confidence. She pretended that she was writing about him and his invaluable contribution to this society. In the third interview, Aseemanadjee was careful and revealed these secrets “off record”. The journalist didnt publish it at that time. Aseemanadjee got more confidence and only in the 4th interview, he talked about this on record. Hence, no one can argue that Aseemanadjee was deliberately lying against RSS and his old bosses.)

    The assassinated Sunil Joshi was frequently visiting Aseemanadjee to plan bomb blasts. RSS head Mohanbhagawat and Narendra Modi were regularly visiting all these guys, including Sunil Joshi.

    Sunil Joshi was killed by RSS – BJP men when they suspected that he may reveal the secrets. These explosive secrets would have put an end to the political life of Mohan Bhagawat and Narendra Modi.

    And Who killed Sunil Joshi? The hired killers are instructed by others who are more powerful. Who are they?

    I hope our beloved Modi fans in Churumuri would investigate and find out the truth. (Some of our women bloggers would still admire murderers. That is okay. DNA is also the name of a newspaper. DNA has these things inside. Dont blame woman bloggers.)

    Jai Hind! VandE.. Maaaaaaatharam !

  16. Sampurna Says:

    In the light of recent edits made to the Caravan interview where references to RSS have been diluted to the point of being null and void, allow me to put your question in perspective:

    When you ask “Should RSS be banned again?” you’re implying that questions regarding an organisatiion’s existence can be raised based on the acts of individual members. By that logic you can also ask:
    1. Should the BJP be banned because of Maya Kodnani’s conviction for her role in the post Godhra riots of 2002? (assuming that abetting the murder of civilians is as bad as terrorism)

    2. Should the Congress be banned because of Jagdeesh Tytler’s role in the 1984 Sikh pogrom for which no conviction has happened yet?

    3. Or, shouldn’t the Congress have been banned a long time ago because of the mass murders in Bengal and elsewhere during Indira Gandhi’s Emergency?

    4. Should the CPI(M) be banned because of its role of the 2008 Nandigram killings in which women and children were murdered by police at point blank range?

    5. Shouldn’t other religion-based political outfits such as IM and ML be banned for their terror links and hate literature?

    6. Who exactly is culpable and therefore ought to be banned for the thousands missing and dead in Kashmir?

    I’m curious that you’re not asking these questions which are obvious corollaries to the logic posited by your question.

    In short, I didn’t vote in your poll because I think your question is flawed.

    We need the rule of law, freedom of speech, and a more penetrative right to information. Banning organisations will only create a police state but not necessarily guarantee the end of the organisation. The case of SIMI turned IM should dispel any doubts on that.

  17. harkol Says:

    Sampurna:

    You bring out the dilemma of ‘ban’ politics.

    Banning organizations is a difficult task as it has to show an organizational complicity (i.e. ideological adherence to violence, and repeated actions by its members).

    However, some of your questions do beg a counter question. When an organization like Sri Ram Sene, repeatedly attacks folks which it doesn’t agree with, and refuses to condemn the actions of its members – doesn’t it show it adheres to the principle of violence/terror to get its objectives?

    When MNS vandalizes the toll plaza after it’s leader’s open call to violence – doesn’t it show that the organization itself is complicit?

    One alternative is to ensure the people who indulged in violence are ‘severely’ punished (not token 2-3day jail, but a few years, even upto 10yr imprisonment for vandalism). This will slowly spread fear of law, thus depriving political entities support of unemployed, Paid thugs.

    But, what about organizations, that find way too many ideologically motivated volunteers, who go on rampage? Won’t they still need to be banned? (Like IM, SIMI or Abhinav Bharat?). And if RSS (or let’s say Congress) is found complicit in such action, is it wrong to ban RSS/Congress?

    If an company’s CEO approves an action, the company is held responsible for such a decision. It is not only the CEO who will be punished, but also the company.

    Why should political/Social organizations be treated any different?

  18. Vinay Says:

    Shemej still talks of “Aryan and Dravidian languages”. He is obviously a great proponent of the debunked “Aryan invasion theory”. What a load of bull!!

    Muzaffarnagar riots were a case of eve-teasing escalated to riot levels.

  19. Srinivas Says:

    Ramchandra Guha love this idea. His contention is Only Hindus are comunal and easily forget Muslim fundamentalists. In Mangalore muslim fundamentalists attacking hindus yet Mr. Ramachandra guha choose to be silent. Our CM never condemn such attacks to safegaurd Minority votes. Public anger is raisning against Congress governmetn. Our news media like Vijayakarnataka and other news papers who barked on hindu organisations are gone hiding when hindus are atatcked. No media other then Kannada Prabha dare to write true facts. Joke of the day is our CM is not aware of terrorist bhatal

  20. Srinivas Says:

    Shemej: You have opened up lies of Muzafarnagar as you guys did open lies of Godhra train burning. Hats off to you guys for spreading true lies in India. Your refer few media who are anti hindus and always protect Muslim fundtamentalist. It appears that you are one among them. Your idiotisam is clear on the fact that Muslims iN muzafar nagar are atatcked without any issue. No fool belives your way of story. Unless untill there are issues involved how can khap attacked on Muslims. Here is teh true case of protecting Muslim fundamentalism and defame Hindus always. You are thinking there are no fundatameentalists in Muslims. What a idiotic mentality is this? Azamkhan is the biggest fundamentalist in Muslim comunity. He has protected Muslim fundamentalists who raped hindu girls as a result roit errupted. Don’t spread lies like this

  21. Shemej Says:

    “No fool belives your way of story. ”

    Exactly that is what I say. No fool believes my version of story ! (just joking)

    I dont want to consider that anyone who refuses to believe my line of story is a fool. I am a leftist and not a BJP man. I truely believe, the more people know things, the more light would penetrate into the minds and the darkness would fade away. The truth would prevail. Do you doubt me?

    I am sure I am going to be alive for the next ten years and so is my friend Sreenivas. And I know he may not reveal it openly, but he would SURE BE ABLE TO CHANGE HIS VIEW WHEN HE LEARNS THE TRUTH, SOME DAY. (Why ? I will explain at the bottom of this comment. Of course, if this comment is ever published.)

    I have already explained this question:

    BJP alleges that, on August 27, two Jat boys, Sachin and his cousin Gaurav, from Malikpura village killed Shahnawaz, a Muslim from the nearby village of Kawwal because was harassing their sister.

    “In retaliation, a Muslim mob killed the boys”. …..
    …….

    But what DOES Sachin’s own sister say about this?

    “Sachin’s sister Ritu says she has never been to Kawwal nor does she know Shahnawaz”. ….. and she was never eve teased.
    ………….

    Here is Sachin’s sister’s own version at this video:

    (Interestingly, this video was watched less than 3075 times, where as the videos that spread lies were watched lakhs of times. Obviously people enjoys secretly hearing rape stories, molestation stories, stories about illicit relationships, sexual acts etc. Curiosity to peep into the private life esp, sexual life of others is a dangerously growing social behaviour. We can discuss that later. I doubt if anyone of the BJP-Narendra Modi-Rape fans have ever watched videos showing truth.)

    So, the girl, who, according to BJP-RSS was eve-teased, was never eve-teased, by her own version. Her own uncle (the assassinated Sachin’s father/Uncle) himself says he doesnt have any complaint about eve-teasing. But it was an altercation on a bike accident.

    Read furter:

    “In the police records at Jamsath thana, under which Kawwal and Malikpura fall, there is no mention of the harassment of women.”

    ….”According to the FIR for Sachin and Gaurav’s death, registered by Gaurav’s father, Ravinder Kumar, he says his son had a bike accident with someone called Mujassim, which led to the altercation.”……….

    ……………….
    …………..
    It was BJP MLA Suresh Rana, who claimed that a Jat woman was harassed by Muslim boy.

    “A fake YouTube video circulated by BJP MLA from nearby Meerut, Sangeet Som, also played on similar themes. It shows two boys being beaten to death by a mob, indicating that they are Sachin and Gaurav.”

    But later it was found that the boys in video were not Sacin and Gaurav the Jat boys. But…

    “The video was, in fact, shot in Sialkot in Pakistan, and is two years old”. ………
    ………..

    “A massive Mahapanchayat called by Jats on September 7 demanding justice for the Kawwal incident was labelled a ‘bahu bachao, beti bachao’ sammelan (Save our wives and daughters meeting). As the meeting dispersed, violent clashes broke out, a cycle of retaliation…..”

    It was in this “bahu bachao, beti bachao” panchayat that Naredra Modi’s men insisted that Narendra Modi should be declared as BJP’s Prime Minister candidate.

    Source: http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/the-mystery-of-kawwal-were-muzaffarnagar-riots-based-on-distortion-of-facts-418666

    ————-

    I have relatives (with three differet mother tongues) who are either activists/ sympathisers of RSS. None of them support using rape for grabbing political positions. But RSS does.

    Savarkar has studied about how to utilize Rapes as a political weapon to demoralize opponents. (Six Golden Epochs in Indian History). When I first read about it (I think I read A.G. Noorani explaining Savarkar’s theory? Forgot now.), I felt headache that day. I am sure, to the majority of the civilized readers of this forum, it would be quite disgusting to hear this. It is Savarkar, who coined the word “Hindutva” first.

    Aseemananda clarified in his long interview that he was inspired by RSS and he was an office bearer of Rashtriya swayamsevak sangh- Vanvasi Kalyan Kendra). He visited Savarkar’s daughter as part of his RSS work. See the interview.

    Why do I say, people would ultimately come out of this hate ideology?

    That is based on my understanding of human psychology. I tried to post it many times here, but removed.

    Human being has the same personality trait where ever he/she is. Whether inside family, in the office, in society, while discussing on online forums. The same world-view would help him/her to build his closest family/friendship/working relationships. Birds of the same feathers flock together.

    Most of these people would bring up children who would be influenced by these visions. I have concrete examples to show that, a person with extreme hatred towards others/ other belief systems also would exhibit similar behaviour to own family members/friends, when it comes to self interest. And the children would show the same to others including the parents.

    Most cases, this come to a flash point on issue of adult children’s marital relationship, or property matters.

    If I type anything more than this, I fear, that is going to be denied. Just giving a clue. People always want happiness.

    —————–

    About Godhra:

    These are three images of burning vehicles.

    Vehicles can be burnt because of an accident like an LPG cylinder blast, kerosine stove blast, or by pourig petrol from inside the vehicle by some people, after they entering inside the vehicle. Or some people can throw petrol on outer body/ on the walls of vehicle, by standing outside the vehicle, far away from it.

    Use your intelligence. In which case the outside bottom part of the vehicle would be burnt/discoloured more. And in which case, the outside bottom part of the vehicle would be more or less intact.

    If some one is throwing hundreds of liters of petrol to a vehicle, can he/that group throw petrol without the bottom part of the vehicle getting soaked with petrol? If the bottom outside body of the vehicle is soaked with petrol, wouldnt that portion get inflammed more, first, and decolored more as a result of the fire?

    Now, use your own brain to find out which vehicle in the above three images, got burnt when people threw petrol from outside.

    I dont want to comment further.

    Imagine- If you stand outside the bus, you can pour petrol to the top part of a bus. But, in case of trains, the level of windows would be well above their head of any group of people standing outside the train, next to the track.

    That’s all…. ( https://www.jantoo.com/cartoons/lowres/296/29606756_low.jpg ) your honour !

  22. Yourfutureisbleak Says:

    Since this debate will go the way of most other debates in the comments section of other articles, let me clarify once and for all. But let me state that in today’s day and age, nobody is clean. So we need to choose lesser of 2 evils. People like Harkol have been sitting on their hindsides while the country is being converted into the next pakistan. Is proof of kerala and WB not enough for you???

    It is not enough if you enjoy your freedom today. You need to safeguard it to pass on to the next generation. Imagine if the previous generations didn’t value the freedoms and didn’t strive for it?? You wouldn’t be in a position to even comment on the net and would have to be some underground activist.

    1. Is RSS relevant? Go see the videos on Islamization of Europe. If these people come to power, your womenfolk will have to wear burqa. People like Mahesh Bhat like to support muslims, but does he even realize that his own daughter Alia Bhat cannot wear bikinis and short skirts if they come to power?

    2. Accepting criticism: Today all you other people go all out criticizng Hindus. Try this tactic in muslim countries and see what will be your fate. Buddha came and criticized Hinduism but he wasn’t killed. Muslims would kill anyone who opposed their ideology and Jesus was crucified. So what does that tell you about our culture???

    3. Besides all muslims declare that they are muslims first and Indians second. All I’m asking of muslims and christians is this. Tomorrow if we have a nuclear war with Pak and middle east or Italy, do you have the patriotism to retaliate against these countries? Now ask me the same question. Tomorrow if we have issues with countries like China/Pak which still have hindu religious places like Kailash/Mansarovar/Shakti peeths, I wouldn’t hesitate a second to decimate the opposition.

    4. If Sharia law is so good and all muslims are equals/brothers, then why are there so many muslim countries(iran,iraq etc)/ethnicities(pashtun,tajik,uzbek etc.)/sects(shia,sunni,ahmadi etc.)? First muslims should prove the effectiveness of Sharia by unifying across current demographies. First try to unify 2 countries like Af/Pak atleast. Then you guys can try to convince us of the same.

    5. Tolerance of other faiths – In India, parsis, jains, buddhists, sikhs have prospered. There have been stray incidents of intolerance. But compare this with Iran which was parsi majority and was made 100% muslim in a few years. Pak side of punjab has few sikhs left. Bangaldesh hindu community has dwindled. Muslims never allow temples/churches in Saudi Arabia. We are saying allow us to build Ram mandir and we will help you build a grand mosque away from the site. Why do muslims have to make a prestige issue for this? Why do you guys have to be adamant about Ayodhya/Kashi/Mathura. Hindu religious places that were demolished by muslims will be re-acquired. Give us these places and build mosques anywhere else. This will help promote unity among Indians. Would you like it if we demolished the kaaba and built a temple over it? Wouldn’t you be angry? Also, we never stopped you from building mosques all over the country.

    6. Caste based discrimination in Hinduism: This is wrong and I admit it. And the current generation has to abolish it. But you also have to realize that Hinduism is the only religion that allowed social changes. Sati system is gone. Purdah system is almost gone. Child maariage and dowry is slowly going away. This was possible only because Hindus are tolerant. Will muslims abandon burqa/first cousin marriages/child marriages/triple talaq/stoning for adultery/death for apostasy/death for gays and many other harsh measures? Think about it before criticizing our social customs.

    7. Muslims post that only 0.00000….1% are violent jihadis and other 99.999999….% are peaceful. Well the problem is that those 0.1% are practicing muslims and are in powerful positions in the community like mullahs and can issue fatwas. The rest of the 99.99% are not practicing Islam faithfully and have no say in the matters of the religion. So what is the rest of the world supposed to do if the 0.1% is able to control the 99.99%??? The 99.99% has no guts to reform the community coz the 0.1% will issue fatwas if they raise their voice.

    8. Muslims post that Krishna has also advocated violence in Mahabharata. Well, do you even know that Krishna tried to negotiate for 5 villages for 5 Pandavas before the war began? If the Pandavas had not fought for their rights, today you would have criticized them as spineless. If they fight, you criticize them as war-mongers. So there is no way to satisfy everyone. Besides, there is a difference between Pandavas ruling over an empire and Muslims ruling over an empire. When Pandavas did rajasuya yagna or ashwamedha yagna, kings who could not oppose them had to pay tribute and pledge allegience as vassal states. They were allowed to rule their state independently. When muslims conquer countries, you have to pay jizya tax for being non-muslim and you have no rights and you cannot govern your own country. Also cruel discrimination happens and large scale conversion occurs to escape this. Most people do not convert coz they like Islam. It is to escape social torture.

    9. This point is about the vedas and other hindu scriptures. There are many people talking about idol worship and polytheism.

    a) First, worshipping the idol while considering it to be god is wrong idolatry. This is opposed by Islam/Christianity and this stand is correct. Worshipping the idol realizing that god exists in all forms and that special presence of god has been established via pran pratishta techniques is the right idolatry. Idol is not god but it is just a vessel/vehicle containing god’s divine essence. In the broader sense, god is everywhere and a spiritual person can find this essense in every being. But laymen like us need a symbol to direct our devotion. So we need idols. But we should never consider the idol as god. We need to acknowledge that god’s special presence has been created in the idol via rituals.

    b) Veda has never explicitly mentioned personalities as supreme and Ved Vyasa also avoids this in his commentary on Vedas, viz Brahmasutras. Everywhere the supremacy of Brahman is given. But Ved Vyasa also wrote the 18 puranas and he has stated that there are 3 divisions in puranas, Satvik, Rajsik and Tamsik. Satvik are better than Tamsik. Vishnu puranas propagate Vishnu as supreme personality of godhead and Linga puranas propagate Shiva as supreme personality of godhead. But Vishnu puranas are Satvik and Linga puranas are Tamsik. Hence this debate has been closed centuries ago that Vishnu is the supreme presonality of godhead who is praised in puranas, vedas, upanishads, itihasas. The contradictory statements advocating Shiva supremacy in Linga puranas do not hold and have to be dropped.

    Hindu scriptures are many. It has been written such that only a serious seeker of spirituality will reconcile all apparently contradictory statements. It is not like other religions which has 1 book. Different acharyas have written bhasyas on the brahmasutras. I request laymen NOT to pick up stray verses and advocate their views.

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